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Origins: Candlelight Fisherman DigiTrad: CANDLELIGHT FISHERMAN In Mudcat MIDIs: The Candlelight Fisherman (Singer: Phil Hamond. From Peter Kennedy's Folksongs of Britain & Ireland, #219) |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: GUEST,Muzza Date: 20 Feb 11 - 01:56 AM Here's the song and tune.......with dangerous Pyrotechnics http://www.youtube.com/user/NForest82#p/a/u/1/gVebsfupYb8 |
Subject: ADD Version: Candlelight Fisherman From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Dec 10 - 03:39 AM Now, the version in Peter Kennedy's Folksongs of Britain & Ireland (1975), song #219, is quite different - and it has a chorus. Kennedy's source is Phil Hamond, Morston, Holt, Norfolk. Kennedy recorded him in 1952. THE CANDLELIGHT FISHERMAN O me dad was a fisherman bold And he lived till he grew old For he opens the pane and he pops out the flame. Just to see how the wind do blow. If the flame don't flicker he'd know That there's not enough wind do blow But if that silly old flame blow out Then there's too much wind to go. And often he'd say to me. You'd be wise before you go Do you open the pane and pop out the flame. Just to see how the wind do blow. When the north wind rough did blow Then I lay right snug below But I opens the pane and I pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. When the wind come out of the east, You'll be looking for snow and sleet, But I opens the pane and I pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. When the wind back into the west. That'll come a rough in at best, But I opens the pane and I pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. When the south wind soft do blow, It's then I love to go And I opens the pane and I pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. And my poor wife say to me, We shall starve if you don't go, So I opens the pane and I pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. Now all you fishermen bold, If you live till you grow old, Do you open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. Kennedy's notes:
This same story is also told of fishermen at Mevagissey in Cornwall. This is almost the same as the version in the Digital Tradition, but the DT has no chorus. There are other slight differences. Click to play |
Subject: ADD Version: Candlelight Fisherman From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Dec 10 - 02:57 AM John Roberts did a nice recording of this song on his Sea Fever CD, and he has the lyrics on his Website. I hope he doesn't mind my posting his version, which he says he got from Bob Roberts. CANDLELIGHT FISHERMAN Now my dad was a fisherman bold And he lived till he grew old For he'd open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. And he'd oftentimes tell to me You be sure before you go Do you open the pane and pop out the flame. Just to see how the wind do blow. When the north wind roughly blow Then I lie snug below But I open the pane and pop out the flame. Just to see how the wind do blow. When the wind comes in from the east It's no good for man nor beast But I open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. When the wind back into the west It'll blow in hard at best, But I open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. But when the south wind softly blow It's then I love to go But I open the pane and pop out the flame And there's not enough wind to go. Now my wife she says to me We shall starve if you don't go So I open the pane and I pops out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. So come all you fishermen bold If you'd live till you grow old Do you open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. |
Subject: ADD Version: Candlelight Fisherman From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Dec 10 - 02:54 AM Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on this song: Candlelight Fisherman, TheDESCRIPTION: Singer, a fisherman, tells how his father taught him to test the wind at night by sticking a candle lantern outside: "Open the pane and pop out the flame/To see how the wind do blow". He tells how he does it, and advises listeners to do the sameAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1952 (recorded from Phil Hammond) KEYWORDS: fishing technology work humorous nonballad father wife worker FOUND IN: Britain(England(South)) REFERENCES (2 citations): Kennedy 219, "The Candlelight Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune) DT, CANDLEBLO* Roud #1852 RECORDINGS: Phil Hammond, "The Candlelight Fisherman" (on FSB3) Bob Roberts, "The Candlelight Fisherman" (on BRoberts01, HiddenE) NOTES: The joke is that while one is testing the wind with the lantern, its light attracts fish. Doing this, of course, is against the law. - PJS Kennedy adds another joke along the lines of the "Arkansas Traveller": If the wind blows out the candle, it's blowing too hard to go out; if the wind doesn't blow out the candle, there isn't enough wind to sail. - RBW File: K219 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2009 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. Roud Index SearchBelow is the version from Bob Roberts in Roy Palmer's Oxford Book of Sea Songs (1986). The word "snug" and the verse in brackets are from my transcription of the Bob Roberts recording from his Songs from the Sailing Barges CD. I can't catch all the words on the "south wind" verse, so I'd appreciate corrections and suggestions. Except for that one word and the "south wind" verse, the Roberts recording is almost identical to what's in the Oxford Book of Sea Songs CANDLELIGHT FISHERMAN My dad was a fisherman bold And he lived till he grew old, Till he opened the pane and popped out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. He often said to me: 'You'll be wise before you go, Do you open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow?' When the north wind roughly blow Then I lay right down [snug] below And I open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. When the wind comes from the west It will blow hard at the best, So I open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. Now a wind that's from the east, Is no good to man nor beast So I open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. [When the south wind softly blow It's not enough for you to go. But I open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow.] My wife she said to me: 'We shall starve if you don't go,' So I open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. So all you fishermen bold, If you'd live till you grow old, Do you open the pane and pop out the flame Just to see how the wind do blow. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 16 Dec 10 - 02:09 PM As a guess I'd say it's probably the nearest thing we have in English folk song to an example of communal composition, i.e., someone thought of the basic idea and others chipped in with verses Isn't that the way with all folk songs? The essence of the Folk Process being a creative one as these things get passed around and customised accordingly. I got Candlelight Fisherman from the Topic Bob Roberts album (Songs from the Sailing Barges) although when I played it to my mother once she said it was one of the songs my late father used to sing (Bell Bottomed Trousers being another). I've no idea how he came by them though I guess his love of all things maritime had something to do with it. I've got a different tune for it which I can't readily account for. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: The Sandman Date: 16 Dec 10 - 01:20 PM It is traditional. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: Gervase Date: 16 Dec 10 - 11:35 AM I've heard the Bob Roberts' version and Tony Hall's, and always assumed it was 'anon/trad'. John Goodluck also did an excellent version. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: Steve Gardham Date: 15 Dec 10 - 05:21 PM The song is a very simple one, what the technical people call a 'catalogue song'. I have adapted my own version as I'm sure others have. As a guess I'd say it's probably the nearest thing we have in English folk song to an example of communal composition, i.e., someone thought of the basic idea and others chipped in with verses. It appeals to me because of its simple structure, adaptablility and an easy tune on the melodeon. My version probably arose from Bob Roberts' singing and the Foreman broadside which I have a copy of somewhere. Tony Hall also is well-known for singing it. It well suits his laid-back style, and I'm just basically lazy. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: GUEST,nick hamond Date: 15 Dec 10 - 03:48 AM major philip hamond (1 m) was my grandfather. He did not write the candlelight fisherman but it is unknown where he got it from. He spent a lot of his life on the north norfolk coast but also spent time in the essex blackwaters. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Date: 14 Nov 09 - 11:38 AM Topic released two records with Bob Roberts singing it: Topic 12TS 361 Songs from the Sailing Barges and Topic TSCD 600 Hidden English They also released Phil Hammond's version: Topic 12T 159 Jack of All Trades (also Caedmon TC 1144). Hammond's version was also released on: BBC recording 18703 Folktracks 60-021 Jack of all Trades (I don't know if this is the same record as the Topic one of the same name). The Singing Together version (with the notes) is on the Folkinfo site: Candlelight Fisherman, where the pamphlet notes also say that the chorus was a recent addition by Peter (Kennedy, I presume). Mick |
Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: Tug the Cox Date: 14 Nov 09 - 11:05 AM I learned ot from an old Topic record, sang by an old boy who accompanied himself on squeeze box. I think it was from East Anglia. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 14 Nov 09 - 10:38 AM I associate this song with John Foreman. I saw him at the folk club in the Liverpool area in 1967 and he gave out a handout to the audience with the words to this song. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: Stower Date: 14 Nov 09 - 10:36 AM Thanks, Mick. I wonder where Singing Together got their idea from? It does seem an odd claim when Kennedy never reported it as such. And I don't think it's far fetched to suggest that a song can be traditional and only be collected once or twice. There are other examples. Queen Of Hearts, for example, was collected from a living person only once in 1894 by Revd. Sabine Baring Gould (who published it without giving the singer's name), our only other source being broadsides from the 1830s. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Date: 14 Nov 09 - 09:18 AM Stower - My copy of the Roud index lists those two as the only sources for the song. Neither Palmer's publication of Bob Roberts' version nor Kennedy's publication of Phil Hammond's version add anything to what you have. Kennedy quotes Hammond on the subject of the song - more or less your 3rd sentence above - and also adds that the same story is told by fishermen of Mevagissey in Cornwall. Kennedy doesn't say the Hammond wrote it (or claimed to), and I would have expected him to mention it in his notes if he had. Mick |
Subject: Origins: Candlelight Fisherman From: Stower Date: 14 Nov 09 - 08:27 AM Who wrote The Candlelight Fisherman, in the DT here? The song is about a fisherman looking for excuses not to get out of bed. If the wind is strong enough to blow his candle out, then it's too rough to go to sea. If it's not strong enough to blow his candle out, it won't fill his sails and he can't go to sea. Major Phil Hammond of Morston, Norfolk, was recorded by Peter Kennedy singing The Candlelight Fisherman for the BBC's folk song collection in 1952. That recording appears on Kennedy's compilation LP series of traditional singers, Folk Songs of Britain; this one on volume 3, Jack Of All Trades. The only other recording of this by a traditional singer known to me is Bob Roberts, recorded in 1977 in Ryde, Isle of Wight, by Tony Engle, for Bob's Topic LP, Songs of the Sailing Barges. The BBC school publication, Singing Together, states that "the words and the music were partly composed by Major Hammond", though this is always credited to 'traditional'. Can anyone verify whether Phil Hammond claimed to have written it? If he says he did, and there are no previous collected versions, then I'd say we should believe him, but did he make such a claim (in which case the attribution 'traditional' is wrong)? Any information would be greatly appreciated. |
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