BS: an example of unpleasant trolling

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: TheSnail
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 07:39 PM

Jack Campin

Except Liz Carroll sucks.

Jack, you and I have never eaxactly seen eye to eye but I always assumed you spoke from some sort of position of musical expertise. For you to expose yourself as a musical ignoramous comes as a bit ot a shock but, in away, a pleasant surprise.

Liz Carroll and John Doyle

P.S. Does anyone have the faintest idea what this thread is about?

Content is introduced into Mudcat threads from all around the world on all subjects, so that complaint holds no water. This thread airing the dirty linen from another folk site strikes closer to home for more Mudcat users and appears liable to bring that animosity over here. Like we need more of it. --mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 01:41 PM

hahhaha

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 01:28 PM

I gotta say. If anyone libeled me by saying I was prone to violence I would punch them in the mouth! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: GUEST,Trinity Junior
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 01:21 PM

As the subject of the comment lives in Ireland the comment is not libellous, according to the Defamation Act 2009, unless said subject can prove that the comment injures his or her reputation in the eyes of reasonable members of society. Since the subject's name is not given in the comment provided by the OP and is also not available in his/her membership details on the site from which the comment was extracted it would be extremely difficult to prove that a libel had taken place.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 12:44 PM

Prone after violence sounds so much more appealing.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 12:43 PM

I certainly agree- unless it were followed by a statement of medical findings and an itemization of violent episodes.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 12:32 PM

"However, more importantly, he's schizophrenic and prone to violence"      
in my opinion that statement is libellous.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: ollaimh
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 12:13 PM

i do find the libel on the internet surprising. i supose many people think they can't be identified or sued, both usually wrong. i fact i sued someone for internet libel and won easily, i only got ten thousand dollars but it definately put a stop to it. the organization in question had apparantly often libeled me but i wasn't rreading their stuff untill one was stupid enopugh to cross post it to another site i do read. it was from the society for creative anachronism, the libeler was an officer so it got to sue the society. they are a bit escapist to start with but they used to like early music so i went to events and had fun, i don't much any more

i supose i is possible to hide your idenity but that takes a lot mopre ability than most people have and es[ecially people dumb enough to post totally untrue stuff. i have posted potentially libelous stuff on occasion but i did my research and would back every thing i say in a court of law.

the basic rules for the average joe, or joesephine are,

don't post things that allege serious immorality, or criminality with real eveidence, don't post things that sugest mental illness that isn't true(very popular for some reason these days) don't post things that cause humilation . and above all don't make stuff up, not even a little bit. i have seen some very odd extrapolations from very few facts. if you think someone is mentally ill or criminal from something you saw them do. then post what you saw them do and let others draw their own conclusions, and maybe ask the person why they are doing the apparantly odd thing.you may be misunderstanding what's happening. and don't just believe the gossip of others. ask the person who is being gossiped about. its just good manners and comon sense.

when i was libelled they had a bunch of stories they were telling for ten years without ever asking me or the other people present. i had several witnesses to the origional events who all directly contradicted what was gossiped. you can solve a lot by talking to people, and if you are not prepared to talk to the person perhaps you should see a cousellor about your personality problems. libel or slander will only make matter worse in the long run.

good moderating can help on line but it can also be used to stop the truth getting out aboput popular and well entrenched people. i have made serious accusations against a certain german now deceased, that have been occasionally muzzled by our joe. i remain prepared to go to trial any time over my allegations. he occasionally threatened to sue me back when he was alive but he always backed down. the thing about suing is the other side gets to look at you documants and subpoena all yopu friends who have witnessed things. if you have something to hide sueing will backfire terribly. i have little or nothing to hide. so i don;t mind being sued. that alone usually stops any actions

so remember, if you have little or no proof then talk to the person, it's really not that hard. i realize we live in a era when many are seriously afraid of confrontations, but its better to clear the air.

if you are posting about very negative activity you should have a really good reason. i am personally very offended by nazis allowed to come to canada, child abuse ,the treatment of northamerican natives and racism in general. i will make strong statements on those issues. but i am willing to go to court to back them up

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jun 12 - 06:03 PM

I get the impression that my dad was a mischief maker. Just not that day.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: meself
Date: 30 Jun 12 - 05:48 PM

See whacha mean - an able young man like that lying in bed all day. Tsk,tsk, tsk.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jun 12 - 05:26 PM

"My ol' Gran used to say that if ya got nowt good to speak, keep yer mouth closed. Wise gal was Mary Walsh. "

Bruce, we know you. You haven't always taken that advice. Since you are criticizing the rest of us, you aren't taking it now.

On the other hand...

The town policeman came one day and accused my dad of breaking a window of the school. My Grandmother asked what day that happened. He said "Saturday." My grandmother picked up her broom and chased him up the lane and back to his car all the while saying. "You liar you liar, He (my father) was home in bed all day so it could not have been him."

See how much worse we could have been?

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Jun 12 - 03:25 PM

.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jun 12 - 02:51 PM

If ya got a gripe with the organ grinder, you don't take it up with the monkey Bruce.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jun 12 - 03:06 AM

Thanks, 9. T'was I, indeed.

By the way, that is 'Of a purple scarf flung high'. lol

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 11:42 PM

Ebbie, them's good words. Who's the writer?

##############################

I will not diss Mr Miles. He is a man and worthy of respect. He ain't that bad a performer, either. The fact he posted an ache on Mudcat simply means he thought he was with friends. Accept it as such and move on. My ol' Gran used to say that if ya got nowt good to speak, keep yer mouth closed. Wise gal was Mary Walsh.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 08:59 PM

On the oceans of Alaska
This fisherman toils at his trade
Out on the water
The world for which he was made
Only but not lonely
He's busy just all of the time
Trolling for salmon
The king, the top of the line
    Pulling and gaffing and gutting them clean
    Life on the ocean isn't all it might seem
    Fish poison and backache and a five-gallon can
    All fall to the lot of this sea-faring man
       But at night he'll watch the Northern Lights
       Stream across the sky
       Silver and gold in ripples and folds
       Of a purple scar flung high
       Green canopy of the Northern Lights!
       Gleaming stars hang nigh
       All nourish his soul in the crystal cold
       Alone in the Northern Lights
       Alone in the Northern Lights...

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 08:19 PM

pleasant trolling?

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 07:15 PM

"an example of unpleasant trolling" Kind of says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 06:26 PM

Whether or not trolling is unpleasant depends on how rough the ocean is and how well the fish are biting.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 04:20 PM

It seems to me you are telling MartiRyan, that if he does'nt like it, then don't read it, the same applies to you elsewhere, don't be such a hippocrite.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:34 PM

I did not see it as trolling until this thread.

From: Good Soldier Schweik - PM
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:23 PM

But it obviously is.

Here is the advice I am taking form now on.

you are not forced to read or comment on anything, WHATEVER IT IS YOU DON'T LIKE, you are not forced to participate in a discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:30 PM

Please delete this stupid childish thread.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:26 PM

Jack, you owe me an apology, you have attempted to blacken my character by claiming that i am banned, from the session[i am not] you also accused me of multiple identities,this is untrue.you have come on to this thread and flamed and trolled this thread making accusations about me that are untrue.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:23 PM

Jack,I am not banned, neither do i have any other identies, here is the proof, ihave just posted on the session.Choice anxiety

It's one thing varying a tune a bit, or even a lot, but mostly you can do this in a session and the tune will come out sounding ok, even if you're new to that particular session.

But there are some tunes which have so many versions that are just so different that it's bewildering.

One example that's been going round and round in my head of late is the Connie the Soldier / Southwest Wind / Lake Shore family of tunes http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/373. This has been submitted to the database here several times, and although some have been deleted by Jeremy, four still remain.

Now I have about 10 recordings of this tune (at least, 10 that come to hand immediately) and some of these recordings are ones that I listen to regularly. This means that I have several versions of the tune in my head, and like I said, not just variations, but actually settings that are totally different but similar enough to be confusing.

So if I'm listening to one of these recordings I can probably play along with that particular version, but if someone asked me to start the tune, I'd go into spasms 'cause of all these conflicting versions in my head. I don't know if I'd even know how to start it. The one I want to play is my favourite setting from Charlie Piggot/Miriam Collins/Joe Corcoran, but it's probably the most uncommon setting of them all, which means it's less likely that others would join in in a spirit of tune sharing.

So 2 questions:

1) Which version(s) of Connie the Soldier do you prefer to play and which tend to get played in your session?

2) Do you have any "problem" families of tunes like this? If so, which ones?

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by Dr. Dow
Re: Choice anxiety

Oh no, my favourite one is the Chulrua one, that's the one I meant. It's incompatible with any other version :-(

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by Dr. Dow
Re: Choice anxiety

1) I think I favour Séamus Creagh's version, but only because it's the one with which I am most familiar.

2) The Ewe Reel springs to mind. The Clare and the East Galway versions are very different. I also have the same problem with Paddy Fahey tunes: because they're so intricately conceived, different versions tend to sound pretty awful sitting side by side, yet there are so many versions of each tune that it's a common issue. Paddy Carty's versions of quite a few Fahey tunes are very different from Fahey's own versions, even though they played together a lot.

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by Dragut Reis
Re: Choice anxiety

The one recorded by Ronan Browne and Peter O'Loughlin is popular among pipers, I believe. That's actually my favourite version of Connie the Soldier, or The South West Wind.

A few years ago I tried to learn a couple of new versions of The Boys of the Lough. Listening to many recordings of it, I got confused with so many versions of it that I could't decide which ones to learn. The Tinker's Daughter is also played differently by different musicians. It's one of the hardest tunes to play together with others, especially in a new place.

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by slainte
Re: Choice anxiety

Yeah people don't seem to play Broderick's original version of that, which is much simpler than the session versions I've heard.

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by Dr. Dow
Re: Choice anxiety

Here now, what's this? A thread about actual tunes, playing music, sessions?! Rubbish!

8-)

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by Will Harmon
Re: Choice anxiety

Give up the coffee...

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by ceolachan
Versions on versions on versions ~

I do sympathize. I was working on an old recording by a box player I used to play with regularly in Dublin, a session that had its focus on music and dance from Sliabh Luachra. He had a ton of great tunes, but, listening to them this week, they are all quite unique, but they weren't there, in that hotel session just off the Liffey. There are versions for some of them on site, but they aren't his versions. While some are close enough that you could play them along with the well worn session versions, picked up from commercial recordings that tend to set things in stone, some won't work with those usuals... I have tended to either give in to whatever is being played, whatever version, or to just sit back and enjoy a brew and a listen. However, I do feel some pang in the heart that the commercial concrete has muscled out some really interesting versions, versions that in a sense might have more legit than something by The Chieftains, Planxty, The Bothy Band, Boys of the Lough... Yeah, a kind of sadness. I can still enjoy what's happening, but I can't deny there's a heartfelt regret.

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by ceolachan

Clarification ~ but they weren't unique to that hotel session, which was one of my regular weekly haunts...

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by ceolachan

Funny, as I think on it, I had to adjust what I played depending on which session I was at in that same city, Dublin...

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by ceolachan
Re: Choice anxiety

play the one you like best

# Posted on June 29th 2012 by Dick Miles

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Megan L
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:51 PM

Now come on folks surely the first post on this thread was an excelent example of unpleasant trolling

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:47 PM

Possibly GSS is ticked off that Michael didn't consider him worth adding to his "slagatorium".

I'm not in it either. I'm not a prolific poster there, I don't often get in discussions with Michael, and when I do I'm usually in agreement, albeit with reservations. Except Liz Carroll sucks.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: GUEST,CHALKY
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:27 PM

How can this be trolling?

The Session member cited by GSS has the information GSS quotes in his membership profile. I see no trolling on The Session by said member.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:25 PM

This thread is IRRELEVANT, as far as Mudcat is concerned. Please take your pettiness elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:01 PM

Well, I'm glad that's settled then.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:01 PM

GSS, you're not getting much sympathy here. I think this is the best advice for you I have seen on this thread.

you are not forced to read or comment on anything, WHATEVER IT IS YOU DON'T LIKE ELSEWHERE, you are not forced to participate in a discussion.

Trolling by definition is looking for a reaction. DO NOT REACT.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 01:59 PM

JACK YOU are talking nonsense, i am not banned, I have contacted jeremy and he thinks it is ok, that says it all

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 01:55 PM

because i contacted the owner of that forum and he seems to think its ok, so obviously your suggestion would be a waste of time

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 01:55 PM

We see enough obvious unpleasant trolling on Mudcat without examples of it from another forum.

What's the point - unless you have some axe to grind?

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 01:54 PM

Michael doesn't ordinarily read Mudcat, and the admin at TheSession deletes repetitive personal grudge-mongering like GSS's. So I've sent him a PM from TheSession to make sure he knows about it.

I can't see why he'd bother responding, though.

TheSession probably has GSS banned at the moment. He usually tries multiple IDs to get round that (something explicitly disallowed in the forum charter) but I guess that isn't working any more - maybe there's an IP filter in operation. Which is why he hasn't tried to make this complaint on TheSession itself.

I don't agree with all of Michael's evaluations, but they all say something useful about that forum's personal dynamic. Facebook would need an "Enemy" list to express anything comparable.

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 01:51 PM

The part I don't understand is that you posted it here on the Mudcat. Why not post it on the forum you are speaking of?

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 12:41 PM

Martin,you are not forced to read or comment on anything, if you dont like me criticising the misuse of the internet, you are not forced to participate in a discussion.the internet is a useful tool but it is abused by some who [in this case libel somebody elses character], it is not acceptable and would not be acceptable on properly moderated sites like facebook, in my opinion it is time these discussion forums that are not properly moderated were closed down.the tunes section of this particulatr site is very good , but the discussion forum is unmoderated nasty vicious gossip

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 12:09 PM

So you transfer the unpleasantness here? Essentially an "anti-troll" troll, it seems to me.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 12:00 PM

Martin, the purpose is to allow me to let off steam about some of the horrible and libellous things people say on internet discussion forums, it also illustrates the lack of moderation on some discussion sites

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 11:36 AM

You don't suppose it's supposed to be some sort of 'gentle insinuation'....hmmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 11:29 AM

What is the purpose of the above postings, please?

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 11:14 AM

I am amazed that discussion sites allow libellous remarks about other members, to call someone schizophrenic and prone to violence is libellous, that particular site does not seem to be moderated.
that an internet discussion site can allow this libellous unpleasnt trolling is very sad and an example ]imo] of abuse of the internet.

Subject: BS: an example of unpleasant trolling
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 11:09 AM

n >> Members >> Michael Gill
Details History
Michael Gill

1. You shouldn't share tunes with strangers via musical notation. You've no idea how they might murder them. (This of course, flies in the face of Jeremy's mission statement, but its importance is evidenced the world over. The only saving factor is that this website has zero impact on the people who can actually play this music. Which leads me to the next point.)

2. If the worth of this website to you is as a "valuable resource", then you are severely under resourced. So much so in fact, that it stands to reason that your music making will be severely impaired.

3. You can't play the tunes on a bodhran.

4. The twiddley bits are part of the music.

5. (This one's a little more erudite, and linked to the first point.) Phrasing is what makes the tunes work. Its importance can not be overstated. It's what can lift the music beyond being a mere vehicle to dance to. It is the bread and butter of playing across/through bar lines. It is the art available to you when you remove the necessity to indicate to set dancers where they should be. And it is the meat and potatoes of making the tunes work when played too fast or too slow to dance to. I'm not saying that phrasing is not important when you do play for dancers, but that when freed from that constriction, it is what explodes the music to a different level.



Some short insights into to some of the regular posters:

http://www.thesession.org/members/display/65115
I'd say probably the bloke who knows more than anyone else. If you disagree with anything he says, you are wrong.

http://www.thesession.org/members/display/58
Will Harmon. Top bloke, knows his stuff. Listen to him. Though his only problem is he can be a bit wet sometimes with the useless feckers.

http://www.thesession.org/members/display/30831
A lot of people here claim that they have no alternative to thesession as a resource because of their geographical isolation, but this fella has proved that a feeble excuse at best … at worst an admission of stupidity. It should be good, and helpful, to be able to post said truth, but Jeremy would just delete it.

http://www.thesession.org/members/display/7182
I have no doubt that this bloke is genuine and that he loves the music ... it's just that he hasn't a scooby and his diddley playing is awful. It's very frustrating because he gives advice all the time to newcomers who don't know any better.

http://www.thesession.org/members/display/39208
I always think of this fellow as "Jig", but he changes his name often. Don't be fooled. He really is an awful player, absolutely hopeless (don't take my word for it, click above for clips). However, more importantly, he's schizophrenic and prone to violence. Be careful. I've said that if Jeremy bars him for good, I'll post clips of my playing. That offer still stands (but me thinks that he's probably Jeremy's uncle).


Me: Michael Gill. Yes, I do have a certain naive arrogance in my quest to save the music from those that would "murder" it. Yes, I generally just say what I think, instead of sugar coating it to avoid stirring things up. People say I should think before I post? But I don't understand that ... I post what I think.

http://www.thesession.org/members/display/22817
An oasis of sanity in a world gone mad.



Tunes in ...'s head: too bloody many

Tunes in ...'s tunebook: They're not in a book, they're in my head

Tunes in Michael Gill's tunebook: 0