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Advice needed...
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: GUEST,Les B Date: 21 Mar 00 - 11:31 PM Jon - As a green fiddle player I couldn't play with a metronome (now I can) -- I just couldn't concentrate on both sounds enough to tell where I was in relation to its time. A guitarist who knows the tune will change chords at the right place to give you a clue. Also a metronome won't say "You're speeding in that passage !!" like a good guitarist will. Embarassment is a great teaching incentive ! |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: Jon Freeman Date: 21 Mar 00 - 12:53 AM Um, I don't play fiddle but I would be very wary about the guitarist advice. If you find a good rythym player, not necesserily a guitar player - a bodhran player could help for example, it sounds like a reasonable sugestion but I would prefer to rely on a metronome. I am a littly biased on this as most rythym players I know are sadly lacking in that department. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: tar_heel Date: 20 Mar 00 - 07:46 PM hardiman,the fiddler is good advice......i'm a new mudcatter,but mentioned one night about taking up the fiddle...hardiman gave me som tips,,,,,that's helping me along in learning how to play....so his advice works!!!!!
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 20 Mar 00 - 11:47 AM Among your questions I think was a reference to age as being a factor in learning a new instrument. I can speak to that. I picked up the banjo two years ago when I was at the young age of 67, and never looked back. Going great guns. Come in, the water's wet! Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: Hardiman the Fiddler Date: 19 Mar 00 - 11:46 PM Pelrad, this is the thread you are looking for. Hardiman |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: Hardiman the Fiddler Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:56 PM Great suggestions everyone! Especially about having a guitarist to help keep you in the groove, and practicing in front of the mirror. But we haven't heard back from the original maker of the thread! Hope he's feeling encouraged, Hardiman |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: GUEST,Les B Date: 06 Mar 00 - 08:51 PM All great suggestions. Before you get too far down the road of learning tunes you should sit down with a good solid "boom-chuck" guitarist (someone who plays a base string on the downbeat and a strum on the off-beat) and work on a tune you both know mutually. You may find, like I did, that your intonation is good but timing lousy. Practicing alone won't improve your timing. You've got to play with someone, and make them hold the beat at a steady tempo! Most new fiddlers have a tendancy to speed -- a good guitarist will hold you in the groove. It can drive you crazy at first, but ultimately you'll learn to make the bow strokes the right length for each note. I was so depressed with timing at one point that I threw my fiddle under the bed for four months and played other instruments (banjo & guitar). Some people suggest a metronome but I found a good, patient guitarist to be better at the start. Sometimes you have to bribe them ! |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: jeffp Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:56 AM Another suggestion I would give is to practice in front of a mirror so you can make sure that your bow is perpendicular to the strings. This will minimize the squeaking and scratching that is inevitable when you are starting out on a bowed string instrument. Have fun with it! You've started out on a challenging, but rewarding path. It gets more fun as you improve your technique. jeffp |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: wysiwyg Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:36 AM Praise kindly lent me the keyboard for a few minutes so that I could add this: if you don't have a chin rest, you can get a variety that fits over the tail piece of your viola, so that you can look directly down the strings at where your fingers are, instead of the sort that is off to the side. You might also find that useful info for just starting out. Hardiman PS, Having a long neck, I personally prefer the Wolfe shoulder rest, as it can be adjusted a little taller than the Kuhn---but one or the other is the way to go. |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: Troll Date: 05 Mar 00 - 10:48 PM I agree with everything Hardiman said with the following additions. Buy a Kuhn or similar shoulder rest. they are the best for comfort. Does your viola have a chin rest? you don't say. If not, buy one at once! It makes all the difference. It's an essential. The viola is tuned five steps below the violin so your top string is A, second, D, third, G, and forth, C. Please do learn to play in this tuning as it will save a lot of un-learning later. A beginning Suzuki method book will teach you a lot. Check with any good music store. Lastly, hang in there! you're never too old to learn something new.And congrats for having the guts to try. A lot of people don't. troll |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: Hardiman the Fiddler Date: 05 Mar 00 - 10:34 PM This is a post-script, please pardon the double posting. I don't know for sure what the traditional tuning is for a viola. But you may as well start there, 'cause it is harder to unlearn something than it is to learn it right the first time. I too, frequently play in nursing homes, and it brings me a lot of joy. That reminds me that when I started, I stuck to familiar hymns and songs that I already knew so that I could be self-correcting, before I ventured farther afield. good luck. Hardiman |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: Hardiman the Fiddler Date: 05 Mar 00 - 10:30 PM Hi there! Praise told me about your thread. I'm self-taught on banjo, mandolin, and fiddle; I don't know a whole lot about the viola, but I can offer some suggestions. 1. Did you buy a shoulder rest? The idea is that the rest should sit not exactly on top of your shoulder, but on the front of it, and the idea is that the shoulder rest , the instrument and the chin rest should be high enough to occupy the space between your shoulder and your chin so that the instrument can be held comfortably by the chin. You don't really hold it with your left hand. Of course, if you are at all like me, for the next six months, you'll be afraid that you're going to drop the blasted thing, but you'll get the hang of it. 2. Bow tension: for a laugh, you should visit my thread from last week : Sometimes goes limp. You can adjust the tension on the bow, about enough to stick a pencil between the bow and the hair is about optimal for tone. You don't want to thighten the bow so much that it becomes entirely straightened out. 3. Rosin: When I get a new bow, I work the rosin in about like you would chalk up the tip on a new pool cue, and then a good amount thereafter. The problem is that rosin is gummy stuff, and when it starts gumming up on the strings, that does horrible things for the tone. So, you have to remove the rosin build up. Rubbing alcohol works, but it will ruin the finish on your instrument if it drips onto it. I ususally use one of those Scotch/3m scrub pads from the kitchen, and use it to remove the crud off the strings. 4. Your shoulder is going to hurt some, so what I did was play for a bit and then work the shoulder out a bit, until I built up to being able to play for long periods of time. Your chin and neck can get sore too if you go at it too much in one stint. Finally, if you don't get the adjustment right for the shoulder rest and chin rest, you'll get the mother of all aches in your back shoulder blade. Best advice: a little at a time and quit when you are ahead. 5. When I learned to fiddle, it helped to cheat by taping the neck of the fiddle at the second, fourth and fifth positions, like frets on the guitar, until I learned the finger positions. I used thinly sliced up electrician's tape for this and put it on the position (on the D string) at E, F# and G. The day comes, when as an act of courage, you will have to take the tape off. You'll know when that day comes! I'm pretty tired; it has been a long day, and I've written an awful lot to you in one message. Feel free to e-mail me anytime about questions you might have...I'll be glad to offer what encouragement I can. And by the way, welcome, and enjoy your new instrument. Hardiman the Fiddler. |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: wysiwyg Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:28 PM Ff-- Hardiman the Fiddler (my hubby) is self taught and always glad to help, but not online every day. I'll let him know to come see and post. He will have great ideas I am sure. Meanwhile don't hurt you or your viola! |
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Subject: RE: Advice needed... From: ddw Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:11 PM Hi Fountainfox, Sorry I can't help you much with the techniques, but I tho't I'd jump in and give you a hint on how you might get more action on your request. Restart your thread, but this time put what you're looking for in the thread name — something like "Fiddle tips?" or "Fiddle help" or something like that. A lot of Mudcatters tend to ignore generic threads, but we're a helpful lot and there are a lot of fiddlers around here who are always happy to help someone else make music. Welcome to Mudcat, David |
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Subject: Advice needed... From: Fountainfox Date: 05 Mar 00 - 08:59 PM I'm in no way anything like a professional. Have played guitar for 40 years or so, self-taught, and picked up a little 5-string banjo. Never did anything in front of people, either, until about 14 years ago, when a small group of us formed -- and what we do is Christian music for nursing home audiences. I'm a folkie at heart, though, musically. I continually would like to 'stretch' what we do, and, with the hope of adding a few long, sustained notes in some of our songs, bought a viola on eBay. (I had taken a eyar of cello 45 years ago, so I was not totally ingorant of string instruments). I know there are people here who play guitar and fiddle. I would love reading almost anything they had to say to a 57-year old trying to be able to do something on his own on a new instrument. What I have found so far is that: -- after 30 seconds or so, my left shoulder hurts unless I sort of tilt downward. -- my left hand tends to ride up the neck and I find it hard to get it back down very easily. -- I don't know how much rosin to use. The bow was new. I also am not sure how far to tighten the bow. -- my main aim was to arpeggiate chords with maybe a few notes added. To this end, I tuned it like a uke, which, of course, I am familiar with. (now stop laughing) Could someone comment on any of these points?
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