BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: DougR
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 02:24 PM

I think you're right Mick, otherwise the press would already have jumped on it.

Best back, Doug

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 08:16 AM

I agree that when it happened would have an impact, DougR. What I said above doesn't really get into the act as much as it does the sanctimonious rhetoric. Of course we all make mistakes. Mine are legion. I don't think it is OK to lie under oath. I wouldn't do it, at this stage of my life. Perhaps when I was younger. If this thing bears fruit, it will be how Dubya responds that I will be interested in watching. A reread of my post will show that I strongly said if twice in my post. I doubt that this will be substantiated.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: DougR
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 12:05 AM

Big Mick: I have no idea if the alleged transgression took place. It's odd that it hasn't been in the mainstream press (at least I have seen nothing about it) if, in fact the report is legitimate. Keeping that in mind, I'd like to comment on your remarks.

1. If it is true, I think WHEN it happened might be important. If it happened recently, even within the past ten years, I think it would make a difference. I sense, if it did happen, it might have been at a much younger agee. That wouldn't excuse the fact that it happend, but many time people as they age, and gain experience, react differently than they do in their youth. However, someone at an early age who is in trouble probably gives little thought to the substance of the theory (the right and wrong of abortion). He or she just wants to get out of trouble.

2. If the allegation is true, and it happend at it an early age, it would have nothing to do with the kind of decisons one might make in later life.

3. I think suggesting that GWB should be "lumped" with Clinton on the lying under oath situation is premature. It is still an unsubstantiated allegation.

I happen to believe that when one lies under oath, that it should be treated very seriously, particularly if you are the President of the United States. I really don't care what the lie is about. Have I lied? Of course! Would I lie under oath? Nope. Have I had that opportunity? Yes.

As usual, I represent the minority view. Other folks feel if you lie under oath about sex, that's okay. After all one does not want one's wife/husband to know he/she has been unfaithful.

If that is acceptable behaviour, the bank robber would also be justified for lying under oath because he/she doesn't want to go to prison.

Just my opinion, of course.

DougR

2.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 09:35 PM

I guess, given the task that I have currently accepted, that I should weigh in on this one. First off, I despise the Larry Flynt publications. I can honestly say that I haven't looked at one in almost 30 years. But the messenger doesn't matter as much as whether or not the message is true. With regard to whether Dubya may have had an affair or not, and whether he paid for an abortion or not is only important to me in the same way that it was for President Clinton. That is to say that moral lapses are disappointing, they show an arrogance that I don't care for, but in the end result it is not as important to me as what the plan is for the working men and women, as well as their families.

But if, and I place strong emphasis on the if, this were to bear out to be true, then GWB would be fair game on an entirely different issue. You see, he and his associates have made strong assertions on three fronts. One is that they will restore dignity in the White House and get rid of the sleaze. Two, they are decidely and vociferously pro-life. Three, they have made much of the fact that Clinton should have been removed for lying under oath. In my mind IF this allegation were born out, I would judge him on these three transgressions as harshly as he has judged President Clinton. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I would ask folks to not dwell on the act, because most of us are flawed and have made mistakes. But I would ask them to focus on the holier-than-thou type statements, and then judge on that basis. If one finds hypocrisy, that would bear very close scrutiny. Now, off I go to listen to my friend give his acceptance speech.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: DougR
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 03:49 PM

Whistle Stop: I agree with you on the "restoring" dignity crap. That has nothing to do with issues and as the Good Book says, 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone' or words to that effect.

I don't post, by the way, to change minds. I just write what I believe. I do not get upset because someone believes different from me. That is both of our right.

I enjoy reading your posts. I did jab you a bit in one of the other threads but forgot which one.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 01:11 PM

Doug, I'm a relatively liberal guy who respects your opinions and encourages you to speak your mind. You are obviously intelligent and articulate enough that I believe you have thought things through, and I'm willing to accept that you may just change my mind about some issues.

I have to agree with Jed's comment earlier on this thread -- this kind of allegation of past personal transgressions or shortcomings has no place in our political discourse, whether it's about a Republican, a Democrat, or anyone else. The only time I MIGHT be inclined to consider it relevant is when the subject is someone who has chosen to make his own superior virtue a campaign issue. Unfortunately, there's a lot of that going around these days -- if I hear one more politician talk about "restoring integrity to the White House" I'm going to gag. Those who live by the sword should be prepared to die by the sword. But really, I'd rather vote for (or against) people based on their positions and abilities.

Of course, I also consider the source -- and Larry Flint is not on my "most admired" list.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: DougR
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:46 AM

kat, my love, does anyone really welcome the government sticking it's nose in anyone's life? I'm with your grandmom, alright!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 10:57 PM

I dunno, Ralph is looking better and better. I heard some airhead voter today talking on NPR, someone whom they've followed through Reagan til now. White suburban female, Shaker Heights (IL?), always the same place. She and her friends discuss things. She said it depended on which you day you asked her, for which one she would vote. Her criteria was very inane, from what I heard. It makes one despair of any intelligent voter population. Apparently that population, white suburban female is considered a swing voter mine, so both parties are going for it...no wonder the poor and minorities feel left out...

DougeR, ya know we love ya and we are just LOUD, sometimes, about what we think....you've been holding your own and my own grandmother would've been proud of you. She was the OLD fashioned type of Republican...didn't believe in the government sticking their nose into a person's life.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: DougR
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 10:37 PM

Ah ha! Now we know! You had land in Crawford, Texas and The George's ranch borders your property! He didn't buy your property along with the rest of the ranch! It's a vendetta! Truth will out! You're a Capitalist uncercover! Hee hee back!

Doug

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: Bert
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:49 PM

Of course you can have opinions of your own here at Mudcat. Even if you are wrong all the time. *Tee Hee*.

Seriously Doug, I do respect your opinions and I often find myself agreeing with you.

It's just that I have very personal reasons to hate Old George.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: DougR
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:41 PM

Naw, Bert, nobody's gonna dig up any dirt on good ole Al. If they did, you wouldn't very likely read about it in the Mudcat.

I'm kinda surprised the radio station didn't get a follow-up call from Geraldo Rivera confirming Flynt's allegation. You know, the old, "you lie and I'll swear to it" theory.

The same folks that wring their hands and are willing to throw stones at folks that criticize Clinton for his shenagans in the White House, are eager to spread gossip (even if it is only an allegation) about Bush. If one were to dig a bit there might just be a tinge of hypocrisy there.

There was a time when I thought that a definition (a loose one anyway) of a liberal was one who respected the right of others to hold opinions different from their own. Not agree with them, mind you, but respected them. My liberal friends here at the Mudcat have certainly proved to me that I was wrong about that one. *BG* DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: Bert
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 03:47 PM

It's not going to do him any harm; that guy is slicker than shit. I see that he has just pardoned a couple of prisoners in Texas. What's the betting that, just before the election, he pardons a couple that are on death row?

And what's the betting that, just before the election again, some dirt is dug up about Gore which gets to be completely disproved after the election?

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 03:22 PM

Sean,
I re-read my last post. Sorry if it sounded like I was accusing you of lying. Open mouth; insert foot.
Ralph Nader looks better and better to me every day. This may be the first time since I registered to vote at 21 (legal age then) that I have the opportunity to vote for an honest man. I think Ed Koch fell into that category too. So! Do I "waste" my vote and send a message to Washington that I am fed up or do I vote for the lesser of two evils AGAIN?

Or do I follow the lead of the crackpot on Ebay who is auctioning off his vote to the highest bidder? iS IT ANY WONDER i AM IN A CRAPPY MOOD? Damn Capslock!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: SeanM
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 02:59 PM

The radio station in question was KROQ, 106.7 FM in the Los Angeles area.

I'm assuming it was actually him - it was an unplanned call (as far as the DJs were concerned), and within the bounds of what has happened in past shows. Gore called in back earlier this year. They've had several politicos of varying stripes call in (party figures of various status). For that much, I'll believe that it was Mr. Flynt. As to WHY he chose to call to put forth the allegation, I can only assume it's due to the demographic of the station's audience (18-30) and the presence of the convention in town.

Flynt claimed he was letting KROQ in on the news first, but would be contacting other news sources as the morning wore on. As this is still just allegation, I'm hoping that if it does get reported, it is stated as such.

My view? Not really changed. I'd been planning on voting Gore, but the more I read of his VP's views, the more I'm drifting to either 3rd party or just not voting on the presidential race at all (just think if THAT happened en masse... "The voter turnout appears to be in the %48 percent range, yet the candidates only amassed %5 of the vote between them..."). The latest allegations only confirm humanity to me... beliefs are most often for those not tested by them. Situational Morality rules.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 02:31 PM

Jed,
You and I will never change each other's mind so I will agree to disagree.

But SeanM, you did not give us the call letters of the radio station that received the call from Flynt. And assuming it was actually him, I wonder why the regular news sources haven't picked it up. Any response?
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: JedMarum
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 02:20 PM

Our good (hopefully) politcians make it to the top of the class by psuhing the views that resonate most soundly with the broadest base of American voters. Hopefully those views are honest, heartfelt opinions held by the individual politicians - because that is the only way they will ever have a chance of making an impact.

I think we have brought two reasonably good candidates to the election process from the major political parties. I think either of them would prove be good presidents, good leaders and will remain quality human beings throughout their presidency. I prefer one over the other (strongly) - but do not support the entire agenda of either. Bush will never turn the 'choice' issue around (Americans won't stand for it, and the legal battle is far beyond anyone's ability) - and Gore will never close the second ammendment down (for exactly the same reason). Even though each candidate may feel strongly about these issues, I am sure both recognize the reality and accept the voter appeal their stand on the issue has.

Bush's alleged sexual liaison and involvment with a resulting unwanted pregnancy is of no more interest to me then Clinton's alleged sexual liaison and involvement with a resulting unwanted stain. I put them in about the same category. You and I can never know the truth of what happened, and have no reason to be involved!

... and as far a Larry Flint is concerned, I find it very easy to dismiss anything he has to offer, even if it is appealing news.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 02:00 PM

Agreed, Jed. How did we reach this point. Time to re-read "Atlas Shrugged".
Who is John Galt? And does he play the banjo?

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: JedMarum
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 01:56 PM

or a draft dodger, for that matter ...

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 01:51 PM

Could be an abortive attempt at election. But I'm still trying to figure out how an ex-cocaine addict gets to run for office.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 01:46 PM

I hope it buries any chances he has...

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: Bert
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 01:36 PM

Well seeing as he overcame brother Neil's antics and has got this far I don't see as it's going to bother him too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: DougR
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 01:29 PM

That paragon of virtue, Larry Flynt, said that? Wow!

DougR

Subject: Politics, GWB and morning radio
From: SeanM
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 01:12 PM

Hi, all.

OK, it's the political beat. OK, this is a folk site. OK, this thread is US only as far as it's our election.

That in mind...

Larry Flint called in to the morning radio show that I listen to alleging that Mr. Bush (who has been outspoken as to his opposition to abortions/pro choice/whatever you want to phrase it as) paid for an ex-girlfriend's abortion...

Now, in a sane world this really doesn't seem like it should matter. However, since we don't seem to have one of those, if this proves to be true (and Flint has a scarily accurate record so far on these matters), how does everyone feel this will affect the campaign?

M