Why top 40?

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 May 01 - 10:12 AM

Mark,

I did not know "Hy-ski", though I had a friend who had worked with him, and used to like to tell stories about him-He got his name, as you might guess, from the terms "High" and "Lit" which he felt would appeal to the more "sophisticated" teenagers--I was acquainted with his arch rival, Jerry Blavat,"The Geator with the Heater", who chose his nickname because he felt that it would appeal to sophisticated teenagers who knew about his concealed weapons arrest--Well, you know Philly!!

I also knew Ken Garland--his funeral was one of the great gatherings of Philly radio legends, as you know, no one ever leaves Philly!!

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 04 May 01 - 12:30 AM

Just to help clear it all up:

The Billboard Book of Top 40 Hits by Joel Whitburn . . . (wait for it) . . . Says absolutely nothing about why Top 40.

"It does say that the Hot 100 made its debut on Aug. 4, 1958, and has been regarded as the definitive weekley ranking of America's most popular singles in sales and radio airplay."

pax yall.

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 03 May 01 - 11:04 PM

Joe Niagara...now there's a blast from the past. Did you know Hy Lit, too, M.Ted? I always wondered if he was related to the Lit Brothers, who started what became one of the big Philly department stores, back before there was only one department store in the country.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 May 01 - 07:22 PM

The name is familiar, but I can't say for sure why. I didn't really make a career in radion--I was one of those very marginal characters in radio--a fill-in--I worked in Michigan, using variants of the name Joe Edwards--I often worked on the stations that were the old style FM, and didn't need a name, because I had no microphone, just played "beautiful music" and carts--I went into advertising too(used to buy time on KLOK though!)

As I said, though, Billboard's charts, originally based strictly on sales, actually preceded radio and even the invention of the jukebox--the first having been in 1913(though those charts were for sheet music)--The first compilations of hit records actually started in a magazine called Talking Machine World in 1905--the ranking of record in the way that it is done today, started in Variety Magazine in 1929--by 1934, both Billboard and Variety were also charting records according to airplay--and today's charts factor in both airplay and sales--Another magazine, Cashbox, compiled the charts based on which songs are played the most on the jukebox--

My information comes from Joel Whitburn's Pop Memories 1890-1954, which is a compilation of the charts and hits from that time period--he also publishes a series of other books that include charts and chart information from the more recent charts--his books are the ultimate authority, and they are the ones ones that radio stations use--

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: Joe_F
Date: 03 May 01 - 06:53 PM

In my childhood (1940s) there was a weekly radio program in the U.S. called the Hit Parade. IIRC, it played the top 10 -- in reverse order, so that No. 1 was the climax.

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 May 01 - 06:49 PM

I still think I'm right with the Neil Young angle....even before he was born. It was a kinda' premonition thing............

Spaw

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 03 May 01 - 06:46 PM

In Britain in the 60's no one ever referred to the Top 40, it was always the Top 20.

Murray

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 03 May 01 - 06:30 PM

Joe Niagara...now there's a blast from the past. Did you know Hy Lit, too, M.Ted? I always wondered if he was related to the Lit Brothers, who started what became one of the big Philly department stores, back before there was only one department store in the country.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: annamill
Date: 03 May 01 - 05:16 PM

M.Ted, where were you a DJ? My guy was known as "Big John", or "John Allen" in Kingston, NY, Syracuse, NY, Rhode Island, Winston-Salem, NC. After we split, he went out to San Fransisco to KLOK as Program director and was know as Allen Waterous. He went conservative, but still did R'n'R'. Now he has his own commercial production company.

I was wondering if you knew, or ever worked with him.

Love, annamill

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: annamill
Date: 03 May 01 - 05:07 PM

M.Ted, everything you posted is correct. Formatting of radio stations started after the payola scandals and Billboard's picks had a lot to do with it. My ex used to use it when he was a program director, BUT, how do you think Billboard got it's hit list (so to speak). They used music that was getting most play in jukeboxes and the original concept of the "Top 40" format, at least according to what is now documented history, was created as was previously stated, when someone's friend pointed at his jukebox.

BTW, I always liked the late night stuff. My ex was a morning man.

L.A.

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 May 01 - 04:34 PM

Hate to burst a bubble on this, Alex, but my old friend, Joe Niagra, started out playing records on the radio back about 1937--Mark will remember him from WIBJ--he was one of the early hosts of American Bandstand (when it was on the radio) and was one of the DJ's caught up in the infamous "payola" scandals--

As to the "Top 40" theory, I kind of doubt it--the top 40 format was originally conceived as a tight format that was intended to keep the audience's attention by play hits and only hits, based roughly on the Billboard charts, and those have existed since 1913(though the number of records shown has varied at different times)

I was a very small time DJ back in the late 60's,and we picked our records according to a series of rotation formulae that featured a top 5, a top 20, and a second 20--different times of the day, you could play a different proportion of things from each--the late night guy could play album cuts and even got to choose his own stuff--

The idea that the top 40 evolved from the number of records you could fit into 2 hours makes sense--I think that the top 40 format didn't really get started til after the payola scandals, where a lot of top top DJ's turned out to be taking money in exchange for playing records, so the stations wanted more control over what was played--

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: MARINER
Date: 03 May 01 - 03:42 PM

I don't know about the juke box idea. I have a middlin' sized Seeburg (ZX Marauder, 1970's) in the kitchen and it holds 50 records. Most of the others held up to 100 discs.

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: mousethief
Date: 03 May 01 - 01:52 PM

Playing records over the airwaves was at first illegal, and then frowned upon. It was not until the 1950's that it became an acceptable practice. Before that virtually all music on the radio was LIVE.

Alex

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: annamill
Date: 03 May 01 - 01:49 PM

The Top 40 format in radio was well known. My ex was a disc jockey at the time and everyone always referred to "The Top 40" format. I recently saw a music special on TV and what they said there verifys exactly what MT wrote.

Love, annamill

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: IanC
Date: 03 May 01 - 05:33 AM

Hi

My recollection is that people have, in the past, talked about the "Top 10", "Top 20", and "Top 30" as well as 40. Seems as if any round number which can be got through in the appropriate time for a programme will do. Is there really any more to it than this?

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: RichM
Date: 03 May 01 - 04:45 AM

What? Records were played(78's) long before 45's arrived. Long before the 1950's !

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 May 01 - 01:01 AM

I think there has always been a changing number and not alwyas the Top 40. It has been 50 and 100 as well as a Top 1000 and a Top 10.....even some periods where there was only a #1.....and occasionally, not even that. The rule of thumb has alwyas worked around a simple figure and the formula to derive the "Top" number is simple. Whatever the "Top" number played is, it must be at least one less than the highest rated Neil Young offering.

Spaw......What's my prize?

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: mousethief
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:35 AM

The idea of playing records over the air wasn't invented until long after 78's were obsolete. It started in the 1950's. The man who did it asked a friend of his what songs he should play. He showed him the jukebox at his restaurant, which held 40 records. He always picked the "top 40" from the charts.

Alex

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:24 AM

I think a more likely reason was the duration of the old 78 records: 40 of them fit nicely into a two-hour show.

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 02 May 01 - 07:39 PM

Hmm...how many jukeboxes do you know that only had 40 records? I remain unconvinced...
Besides, in Philadelphia in the 60s, WIBG had the Top 99. You can figure out why that was, of course.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: Banjer
Date: 02 May 01 - 07:34 PM

Why 40? That's easy, because if there was one more or less it would be 41 or 39 respectively....mutter, mutter, mutter.....dumb question....;-)

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: annamill
Date: 02 May 01 - 05:38 PM

I gotta go. Talk to you later.

L.A.

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: annamill
Date: 02 May 01 - 05:37 PM

Be still my heart!

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 May 01 - 05:36 PM

The satisfaction of knowing you won a trivia challenge on the Mudcat! What more could you want?

Alex

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: annamill
Date: 02 May 01 - 05:35 PM

Gee! What do I win??

L.A.

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 May 01 - 05:31 PM

Well that was a short-lived trivia challenge!

Congrats to Annamill!

Alex

Subject: RE: Why top 40?
From: annamill
Date: 02 May 01 - 05:28 PM

Funny. I just saw this on a TV music special. Because There were 40 records in a jukebox.

L.A.

Subject: Why top 40?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 May 01 - 05:24 PM

Why do we talk about the Top 40 instead of the Top 50 or the Top 35?

Alex