Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)

Subject: Lyr Add: THE KNOWING MACCARONI OUTWITTED
From: pavane
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 09:20 AM

THE KNOWING MACCARONI OUTWITTED
[c. 1780-1812]

You beaux of London city, likewise St. Jame's park
Give ear unto my ditty, tis of a frolicksome spark
It is one of our dear brothers that lately was betrayed
It was by Mrs. Susan the lady's waiting maid.

His hair being oil'd and powder'd, hung dangling to his waist
No fop could be e'er go fine, his cloaths embroidered with lace
With snuff-box in his pocket as I [d]o you suppose
As large as any turnip, for to perfume his nose.

He stept to Mrs. Susan, to whom his fancy led
A guinea he would give to gain her maidenhead.
Get you to Covent Garden, to Fleet Street or the Strand,
And there for half the money you may have one at your command.
NHJ
Tune: Beaux of London City, Adderbury version

I have just received the full transcription of this song from the Bodleian Ballad Library, to replace my earlier post. I don't suppose this is wanted in the database, as I can't see anyone wanting to sing it, but it may be of interest to Morris Dancers.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: Jacob B
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 05:43 PM

Around Boston, the women's teams would sing:

Here's to the Morris, may we dance it well And pass it on to our daughters. Here's to our baldrics, and here's to our bells And chuck your bonny green garters.

I recall a morris ale when the women threw actual green garters into the audience as they sang the last line of the song. Of course, since the audience was entirely morris dancers, they replaced the word "chuck" with something that made more sense.

Jacob

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: bobby's girl
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 07:12 PM

I think you probably mean Bonnie Green Garters, which is a traditional "dancing-off" dance. A lot of mens teams used to sing words to it usually finishing up something like "Off with her knickers and off with her bells and away with her bonny green garters" The womens team I danced with in York in the early 80's, Acorn Morris, used to sing "here's to the fellas as ugly as hell, and its hard to stifle our laughter, They whisper sweet nothings and jingle their bells, But we know what they're bloody well after. Oddly enough, some of the mens teams didn't see the funny side of it!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: CraigS
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 06:10 PM

Another song with words is called the Bonny Green something-or-other, (can't remember because I've been drinking malted Scottish Herbal beverage).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 07:01 AM

I have just found a reference to an old song which might have been the source of Beaux of London City: It starts 'You beaux of London city, likewise St. Jame's park' and seems to fit the tune. The knowing maccaroni outwitted

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 06:31 PM

I asked for Sweet Jenny Jones last year - click here to see the results

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: English Jon
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:07 PM

oh dear mother is lads a bunchum

EJ

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:04 PM

Lad's a bunchum

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:03 PM

Malcolm,

I stand corrected - though compared to some of the posts on Mudcat in general it would seem to be a relatively minor misdemeanor - maybe I should exile my self not to return ;-). I missed your earlier blue clicky thing (probably because I was thinking Black Joke and didn't relate it to the obvious chorus title) - I found it through google (Black Joke Shirley Collins) which pointed me right back to Mudcat/DT.

Rana

Subject: Adderbury songs
From: GUEST,emma
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 11:53 AM

I know constant Billy as:

Oh my Billy, my constant Billy, when shall I see my Billy again?
Until the fishes climb o'er the mountains, then I shall see my Billy again.

Then the choruses go:

Billy again, Billy again, Billy gain, Billy again,
Oh, my Billy, my constant Billy, when shall I see my Billy again?

The only other Adderbury song I can think of goes:

Oh dear mother, what a fool I be!
Six young fellows came a-courting me.
Three were blind and the others couldn't see.
Oh dear mother, what a fool I be!

Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the dance it goes with.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: Jim Cheydi
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 11:43 AM

Which is, of course why the line in the title song to 'The Nanny' which goes 'She was out on her fanny' always causes such amusement.

JC

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: English Jon
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 11:36 AM

yep. In american a fanny is a bum, whereas a bum is a tramp, and of course a tramp is a slut. All rather confusing really.

EJ

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 11:05 AM

Copy-and-pasting from the DT into the Forum is one of the things that are officially frowned on (see FAQ), so it's best not to do it as a rule: I provided a link to the DT file earlier in this thread.

Subject: Lyr Add: BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW AND GREEN
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:56 AM

I don't need to transcribe the words from the Shirley Collins version - they are in Digital Tradition under the title Black, white, yellow and green - she starts off with the words and the song finishes with the morris tune. Incidently, we do Black Joke (Bleddington) and Old Black Joe (Badby). The tune seems as different to each other as any morris tune whilst the dances are obviously very different. The only problem (well maybe others exist) is when we announce either of the dances the musicians mishear and start playing the other!

I repasted the words below, taken from the DT data base.

Rana

BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW AND GREEN

There was an old woman, she kept fat hogs
She made plum puddings, they poisoned the dogs
They were black, white, yellow and green

...[deleted - see DT]
@food @color
sung by Roy Harris
filename[ BLWHYGR
SOF

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:33 AM

Yes, different traditions etc, but the tunes are closely related, which is what I was talking about. Did you dance the Bucknell dance? I don't think many sides do their dances, possibly because there is (or was) a Bucknell ladies side - are they still going?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:05 AM

Pavane

Black Joke and Old Black Joe are 2 different dances and tunes. At least they were when I danced them

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:29 AM

I think you have to be careful with that f word - it has a different meaning in the former colonies. Has there been a thread on how the early Americans censored the English language? Examples include roach for cockroach, chickadee for tit(mouse, the bird), rooster for male chicken. Understandable for Puritans, and it extended to songs, where we sometimes have an 'unarmed' man instead of a 'naked' man in Matty Groves/Musgrave, and The streets of Laredo where the victim is shot, instead of the Royal Albion where he is dying of pox (or similar) .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: English Jon
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:18 AM

Billy again, Billy again, Billy again, Billy again,

Oh my Billy my Constant Billy O when shall I see my Billy again

For the more rotund of us, Belly and Willy can be used as alternatives in various places.

EJ

And yes, the Black Joke is a fanny.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 08:05 AM

Shirley Collins has it on one of her recordings - words different to above - I'll dig up the recording (downstairs somewhere) and transcribe the words (eventually).

Rana

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 02:46 AM

And I can't spell Calennig!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 02:44 AM

Malcom - thanks for that. I can now see where the cow in the Adderbury song may have come from. There was no hint in the other versions. I had looked at them already, but couldn't even see how they fitted the tune, so I thought it may not be connected.
Other notes: Some years ago, when working in the area, I attended practices of the Bucknell (ladies) side, and learned their version, called Old Black Joe. This makes a much nicer tune to play on the D/G melodeon than the Adderbury one, especially played across the rows to get a more interesting chordal accompaniment. Also, I play a tune learned from a Callenig recording, called Galch Gwyn Morgannwg - White Lime of Glamorgan. This is a version of the White Joke.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 05:14 PM

In the DT:

BLACK JOKE  Text of c.1730, with tune and extensive notes.
MY GIRL SHE'S AIRY  Text from The Merry Muses of Caledonia, noted and perhaps modified by Robert Burns.
BLACK JOKE (3)  ("The cole Black Jack", c 1745)
BLACK JOKE (4)  ("The whore's Answer to the Rakes")

BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW AND GREEN  Text only.

Much of the above material came from Bruce Olson; that and more can be seen at his website:

The Black Joke  A comprehensive history of the song.

There are a number of other songs at the Bodleian which were set to the tune.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: GeorgeH
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 02:21 PM

As I recall the argument that Black Joke was an allusion to the female sex organ was a fairly convincing one . .

Jack Campin (aka Bogus Address) posted extensively on this over on uk.music.folk a while back . . A search for those articles would be err . . informative?

G.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 01:37 PM

Like 'Every morning as true as the clock, somebody s**ks the postmans ....' But yes, I have all the regular words. Thanks for the contribution

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: bobby's girl
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 01:34 PM

The lyrics I heard that fitted to Black Joke were about "The strangest plum puddings you ever had seen, They were black, white, yellow and green." - but sadly that was all I ever knew of it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: Jacob B
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 12:20 PM

Here's the information I've accumulated over the years. (I would hate to have to try to find my sources for any of this.)

Jokes were not a kind of tune. There was a collection of tunes which was published, in which all of the tunes had an unusual number of bars, and all of the tunes were named Jokes of different colors. Half of the tune Yellow Joke also became a Morris Dance tune.

There were various sets of lyrics set up Black Joke. Most of them were bawdy. The clean one that my team (the Black Jokers) used to sing went:

There was an old woman, as I hear to say
She tickled the critters that came in her way
Hi ho fiddle dee dee

The chorus was the same as you have given above.

Another one that I have seen goes:

There was a woman come from France
To learn an English country dance
With her black joke and belly so white
She followed me from lane to lane
And picked my pocket quite and clean
With her black joke and belly so white

The base of her joke, it will lather like soap
And the hair of her joke will draw more than a rope
The base of her joke, it will lather like soap
And the hair of her joke will draw more than a rope
With her black joke and belly so white

I believe that I learned that version from a reproduction of an old broadside, which was titled "The Original Coal Black Joke."

I hope that's not more than you wanted to know.

Jacob

P.S. The other half of the Constant Billy verse goes, "When the fishes fly over the mountain, then will you see your Billy again."

P.P.S. Do you have the lyrics to the other Adderbury songs? The Happiest Man, The Postman's Knock, and so on?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:21 AM

Actually, we had our own variants of the names for many of the dances. For example, Haste to the Wedding became Haste to the Bedding. There were also Ring o' B*lls, Constant *illy, and so on. I am sure other sides did the same.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:18 AM

OUCH!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:14 AM

They were played on a Joak box
RtS (running for cover)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:10 AM

Yes I saw that thread, but not necessarily in this case. I think the Joke or Joak was an old form of dance or dance tune, with an unusual bar structure, often 6 bars in the A and 10 bars in the B music. There are Jokes of many colours, including White, Yellow and Brown. And yes, those are the words I know to Constant Billy, plus the chorus
Billy again, Billy again
Billy again, Billy again
They don't write 'em like that any more <G>

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: Les from Hull
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:04 AM

It was only when I was looking for the derivation of 'Black Joke' that I found out that it actually referred to, well I don't like to say really, but it's a 'lady's front bottom'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: Ringer
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:03 AM

Oh, my Billy, my constant Billy
Oh, when shall I see my Billy again?

Know no more, I'm afraid

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 10:58 AM

It looks like a close bracket > got left out when I pasted - it should read
She tickled the cow, she tickled the calf
She tickled the pigs and made them laugh
She tickled the cow, she tickled the calf
She tickled the pigs and made them laugh
Hey ho fiddle de de

Subject: Black Joke (Adderbury Morris dance)
From: pavane
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 10:57 AM

Many, if not all, of the collected Adderbury Morris dances were accompanied by songs, or fragments of songs. Black Joke had the chorus

She tickled the cow, she tickled the calf
She tickled the pigs and made them laugh
She tickled the cow, she tickled the calf
She tickled the pigs and made them laugh
Hey ho fiddle de de

I had imagined that the researchers into Morris would have uncovered any further lyrics, but I haven't found any references. Does anyone know any more about this or other Adderbury songs (e.g. Constant Billy)