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what's wrong with a music thread?
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Oct 01 - 06:02 PM Great song, Sean!!! Specially that last verse. - LH |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Oct 01 - 05:43 PM That's cute, Kevin. I was in a carnation once? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Oct 01 - 04:13 PM "MC carnation" - a rose by any other name smells just as sweet. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: DougR Date: 21 Oct 01 - 11:28 PM Why don't I believe you are the real Gargoyle, Guest Gargoyle? DougR |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 21 Oct 01 - 10:59 PM WYSIWYG
Now that I have you identified as who you were in a previous MC carnation, and NOT "The Susan" of DT fame.
That was probably the wisest piece of writing I have ever seen you submit. And a submisive woman is better to everyone's liking - so glad you changed tunes and handles. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Jon Freeman Date: 21 Oct 01 - 06:18 PM The other side to a split of course depends on the intentions of Mudcat as a resource for the future rather than a chat room for the present (although I believe it could be both). If music and BS were separted, searches would be much easier for those coming here to look for musical information. The systems I favour use categories and forums. Applying that here, with organisation, would mean that one could seach just in the music category or perhaps, depending on organisation narrow that search to let's say a lyrics forum. The system is flexible and designed to allow movement. Attempting to search a single forum system which holds a mix as is the case here goes along way towards proving GIGO (garbage in - garbage out). Jon |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Oct 01 - 12:37 PM I love the whole mix, myself, as a total package of options. But there are days, speaking now just for myself and not for the people whose upsets I understand and try to avoid restimulating them-- days when I love to come in using the BS: filter and just... see... music. It's such a relief. Not relief from Mudcat-- but relief from day to day life with all its tangles. Sometimes I just need that help to focus on the music, and let music do... it's job... for me. Music as refuge. Would I LIKE to be better at ignoring what takes me away from that healing property of the music? Sure. I hope I get better at that every day, just as I hope I grow in other ways, every day. Do I appreciate the tools we have, though, to help me get what I need, and give what I can in music, even despite my lack of strength in avoiding upsets I may not be up to handling? Yes, I do, I really, really do. And I would like to see us give that gift to those who need it, when they need it, by using that prefix for non-music threads. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Oct 01 - 12:17 PM The big distinction isn't between music threads and non-music threads. It's between threads that are getting somewhere, and those that aren't.
Non music threads can involve discussions that get you understanding the thinking of people you disagree with and provide you with information you'd never get anywhere. Or they can be repetitious and boring and filled with people having temper tantrums and playing silly games. And there's any number of other varieties - funny ones that are funny and unfunny ones that are intended to be funny. And of course the whither-Mudcat ones, like this, which recycle the same arguments, but sometimes move on fractionally.
But the music threads are just as much a mixed bag. There are the song searches that bring fascinating stuff to light, and the musical technical stuff, including of course ones around health issues that affect music. An there are the listing ones about who-is-the-best, who-is-your-favourite, which I tend to avoid. And the ones which come on as music, but they are really about nostalgia and ancient television programmes. And the perennial what-is-folk, which is the music equivalent of whither-Mudcat.
All in all the proportion of interesting threads is pretty high, whether music or non-music. But I don't think there is any way that breaking up the forum or excluding some types of thread as un-Mudcattian would do anything to increase that proportion. The only way to improve things is thread by thread and post by post.
And that includes not doing things that we know is going to gratuitously irritate other Mudcatters, such as failing to label threads we start in a helpful way, and posting as anonymous GUESTS. As WYSIWYG said, "Can we not do this in love out of free choice, and stop looking at rights?"
There'll always be some pillocks who actually enjoy gratuitously irritating other people, and they'll keep on doing things like that, but there could be fewer than there are at the moment, and that's be a great improvement. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Oct 01 - 12:28 AM In consideration of Jon's point, could we not all try a little harder to use the BS: prefix for non-music threads? I had a "right" to post prayer threads, but even tho I hardly ever did, I spoke out for moving prayer matters off Mudcat, and I backed it with action on a number of fronts to do so. I did this because whether I intended it or not, I was perceived as a leader or instigator in that matter-- so I acted for the good of the community as a whole when I understood the history and the issues as perceived by the people of the community I had come to love. I had a "right" to post whatever I wanted to about my faith experiences, as they pertained to subjects others had brought up, but it made so many people nuts, I generally stopped. Others kept talking about this topic-- but that wasn't me starting the threads. In fact, I have suggested, in them, that out of respect for people who cannot tolerate these threads, we avoid them. So we have a "right" to create as much non-music stuff as we like and call the threads whatever we wish. Some of you who do this, and who forget or refuse to use the prefix provided, are the same people who got so upset with what I was doing, or what you feared I was doing to be more accurate, or what just bugged you for whatever reason. Can we not, for the sake of others' feelings, simply LABEL non-music threads with the tools provided, whether we agree with the feelings or like the tools, simply because it is apparently important to a large number of fellow community members, and because it is asked? Can we not do this in love out of free choice, and stop looking at rights and thinking someone wants to control our rights? ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: DougR Date: 20 Oct 01 - 07:21 PM Why can't I like you both? I sure would like to welcome her, particularly if she is a conservative. What's her Mudcat name? DougR |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: CarolC Date: 20 Oct 01 - 12:05 AM Maybe not, DougR. I just found out yesterday that my sister is a Mudcatter now, and judging from some of the posts I've seen of hers, she seems to be more conservative than me. You might like her. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: SeanM Date: 20 Oct 01 - 12:02 AM Here we go 'round the mulberry bush, The mulberry bush The mulberry bush Here we go 'round the mulberry bush, So early in the morning This topic pops up once a month or so A month or so A month or so This topic pops up once a month or so And Max has said he ain't changing This topic's been around for the last few years or so Years or so Years or so This topic's been around for the last few years or so The whiners have just become more vicious So let's all take a deep breath and realize Realize Realize Let's all take a deep breath and realize That if you're so wound up in the internet that it starts making you exceptionally angry, bitter, disgruntled or what have you that it REALLY is time for to to step the fuck back, grab your goddamned guitar or whatever the fuck else you play and go PLAY it for a while rather than bitch about the fairly static state of a WEBSITE for chrissakes, and realize that for every time you start up one of these bitch threads it's because YOU feel sorry for yourself and don't have the balls to go down and dig up the info on the HUNDREDS of musical threads that haven't been answered. So early in the morning... M |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: DougR Date: 19 Oct 01 - 11:49 PM I'd miss you Carol! *BG* DougR |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: CarolC Date: 19 Oct 01 - 10:34 PM Well, GUEST,.gargoyle, I sympathise with you. However, if the Mudcat was just about the DT, I wouldn't be here, because the DT is about lyrics and I am an instrumentalist.
But maybe the Mudcat would be better off without me, too. Who knows? At any rate, I think I'll stick around as long as there's a place for me here. Sorry. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: CapriUni Date: 19 Oct 01 - 10:12 PM (Note: tounge firmly planted in cheek) Maybe it's because thread, polyester or cotton, isn't really the right material for an instrument? Cat gut, steel strings, heck, even rubber bands work better! ;-) And besides, it seems to me that in a blues/folk music forum, the line between BS and non-bs, at least potentially, is fuzzy at best. After all, these forms of music have been written in response to the concerns of the people. Find a hot BS thread, and chances are, you'll find the subject for a song... |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Oct 01 - 09:47 PM I don't see anything wrong with music threads OR non-music threads. - LH |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Ed. Date: 19 Oct 01 - 09:26 PM Jon, I prety much agree with everything you say. i'm going away for a few days, and am too tired to post a considered opinion. I'll simply say: Diet Coke with Lemon? My arse Ed |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 19 Oct 01 - 08:30 PM Thank you Jon! Well written!
CarolC - it is easy to see - you are a newbie here. Therefore, let me elucidate you.
In the "good ol' days" the DT cycle was a week. Then for many years the threads stayed up for three days. It was nice and academic and musical. Subsequently, we became infested with are sorts of annoying critters and their accompanying feces and the cycle went to 24 hours. In otherwords, the litter box is emptied daily and lots of the "good musical stuff" is thrown out with the shit.
Max wants/needs a "high hit count" so the odiferous offerings and caterwaling are tolerated.
With less BS the list is shorter The MC is about the DT.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Jon Freeman Date: 19 Oct 01 - 08:01 PM McGrath, Mudcat does indeed have magic possibilites. The real shame is that people are far too short sighted in their outlook. The basic problem remains and has existed in all my time here: We have a mix of people here, some who want to see purely music, others who like a mix but would prefer not to read some of the more inane stuff (that is where I sit) and some who like anything goes. The technology exists to make life more bearable for all parties but for whatever reason, Max does not wish to implement any such change here... Given that people are aware of differences amongst other posters here, the view could be taken, particularly in view of the 1 forum that maybe a compromise situation amongst us posters would be sensible but the prevailing attitude here is "if I want to talk about farts, I can and fuck everybody else - there not inconvenienced, they should just skip it, etc."... Because of the above, we end up in these otherwise easily avoided perpetual rows. Mudcat will continue to muddle through them and even some of the "lost" faces come back if under different names, etc but why do they come back? My theory is that it has little to do with the current Mudcat community but because of the presence of the dt - the main source for lyrics and something that is guaranteed to stimulate new conversaition. There is also the legacy of past threads here - threads that some of the more sholarly contributers have made great input to - do you think they want to see that wasted? Max is exceptionally generous in hosting this site - I know of no one else that would be willing to take it on but he seems to fail to respect the hard work of other contributers here - those that have built up the useful stuff. Also, he seems to want a community but fails to consider any moves that could allow both the music side and the community side to flourish more. I admire Max on his free open policy and many things but I still fail to understand why on this - even a simple thing like asking people to use prefixes would help... Many BS posters seem to forget that much of what was built was built on music, the efforts of some who are not comfortable with BS and give that little consideration (not to say they don't love music) - it realy is like the invasion of a session with chatters at times... and it is probably true to suggest that in the main, the chatterers would not be here if it hadn't been for the efforts of the people they seem to think don't matter... Jon |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: 53 Date: 19 Oct 01 - 07:31 PM that's o k |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: CarolC Date: 19 Oct 01 - 07:30 PM Damn. I thought I was talking about music. Sorry. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: 53 Date: 19 Oct 01 - 07:28 PM NOREEN; what type of music would you like to talk about, or do you need medical advice too. bob |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: 53 Date: 19 Oct 01 - 07:26 PM TO CAROL C; i'm a guitar player not a doctor, if you're having that kind of problem you should see one. cheers, bob. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Oct 01 - 07:13 PM And if you want to have threads hang around on your screen for more than 24 hours, just scroll up to the box at the top that says "AGE", next to "Filter", and adjust it to 3 days, or whtever longer period you fancy.
And if there's a thread that you like, you can always put a tracer on it, and it's easy to bring it up again any time you want to return to the subject, rather than starting a new thread if that isn't needed.
This Mudcat has all kind of magic possibilities that very few of us have really worked out properly. You can weave together threads, bring them back from the dead, put in links to old ones which might encourage other people to explore them and add to them, put in links to other websites...
Much more fun than complaining about how people keep on posting to threads you don't want to conbtribute to, and don't have to read. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: CarolC Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:47 PM Actually, GUEST, they would dissappear in 24 hours anyway. The difference would be that the number of threads visible at any given time would be shorter. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: GUEST Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:43 PM If there was no BS, the music threads could remain active and up front for more days rather than slipping into obscurity in 24 hours. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Ed. Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:57 PM As in disputatious discussions |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Ed. Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:53 PM McGrath, Disputativeness That's an excellent word. I don't think I've ever seen it before (and confess to intially thinking that you'd made it up) I'd probably still favour disputatious but it's always nice to learn a new word. Ed. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: John Routledge Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:42 PM Tongue firmly in my cheek Noreen. :o) |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:40 PM This is not a music thread is it? A good rule, which is unfortunately not kept to often enough, is that non-music threads ought to have a prefix such as BS indicating that they are non-music. Such as this thread does not have.
As has been pointed out repeatedly when this kind of point gets made, most of the threads on the Mudcat are music threads, as is always the case. It just so happens that the non music threads tend to rise to the top of the page, because they tend to involve more disputativeness.
So if it's music you want, use the scroll bar and head to the bottom of the page. There are always threads about music which are vanishing away when they still have the potential to develop into the kind of discussions and explorations that are the best thing about the Mudcat. You know thebones in which one song leads to another, and people come up with explanations and arguments aboiut explanations, and stories about songs and the people who made them emerge and get put on the record.
The problem, insofar as there is a problem, is not that there are too many non-music threads, it's that not enough people use the music threads imaginatively.
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: wysiwyg Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:32 PM No, but 53 is a relatively new member. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: CarolC Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:32 PM So 53, maybe you can help me with a little problem I'm having. Whenever I play Kate Martyn's Waltz, I find that in the B part, the fingers of my right hand (the keyboard side) get cramped up, and I have difficulty stretching them out enough to play the notes correctly. Maybe it's a carpal tunnel problem. I don't know. It never used to happen, but these days I find I can't play that waltz any more because of it. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: DougR Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:29 PM Gee. This is a new subject, isn't it? DougR |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Noreen Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:22 PM Great minds, Ickle... John, if there is a limit to the amount that can usefully be said or written about music, I've never come across it! There were certainly plenty of interesting discussions about music going on last weekend at Llanstock, and I imagine there will be plenty more this weekend at the Getaway. Noreen |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: John Routledge Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:03 PM There seems to be a limited amount that we can usefully write about music. Unfortunately BS is absolutely limitless. John |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Noreen Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:02 PM So start a music thread! |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Linda Kelly Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:02 PM So 53, why don't you start a music thread ! |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: Deckman Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:00 PM I couldn't agree with you more ... CHEERS, Bob |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: 53 Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:20 PM so. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: wildlone Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:18 PM stats last 3 days,51 LYR add or request. 61 BS dave |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: 53 Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:00 PM yeah, it could be but music is better than the other stuff. |
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Subject: RE: what's wrong with a music thread? From: wildlone Date: 19 Oct 01 - 03:58 PM It could be the wrong kind of music thread. dave |
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Subject: what's wrong with a music thread? From: 53 Date: 19 Oct 01 - 03:39 PM i enjoy music thread's and i thought that was what mudcat was all about, a magazine dedicated to blues and folk music, if you want news watch dan rather on the 6:30 news. |
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