BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 10:12 AM

We have had the "Lost Generation" the "Baby Boomers" and "Generation X" and "Why"

I refer to this current generation as the "00's" pronounced "Oh - Oh's"

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Nemesis
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 10:29 AM

Boys will be boys .. what does that mean exactly?

My son is a boy evidently, my friend's son is a boy, evidently.. since when did that mean that boys do these things to other boys in quite this vicious, random, potentially fatally, pack/ gang-led way?

Yes, we may have had Mods and Rockers on the very same seafront several decades knocking hell out of each other - but everyone who was in those ruckuses knew what they were in for .. the predatory gangs of kids these days are a frightening crime phenomenon .. in London 14-15 year olds are using guns and knives without compunction (not even to 'look big') but because that is what they 'do' ... a quote from a 22 year old ex-teenage gang member said they scared even him - as they carried knives for protection but the way kids are using them these days is de-sensitised, senseless, callous, remorseless and pschopathically devoid of comprehension. There is a real 'sick' generation of kids growing up and we ignore this at our peril.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 05:42 AM

Boys will be boys - it is karma returning.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Grab
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 01:06 PM

Perhaps you're thinking of a different version of "Family" than me, Jaque. I can think of the old days of "Family" where bully would attack kid, kid would call on big brothers, bully's big brothers would call on parents, and pretty soon you have two armed gangs going hell-for-leather to kill each other. Maybe some ppl would like to return to the days of the lynch-mob and Italy's vendetta system, but I'll give that a miss, thank you very much.

Self-defence is allowed at any time, so long as you're actually defending yourself - or even if you only think you're in danger. If you confront them, they run away, and you shoot them in the back, I'm afraid that's not self-defence.

Your assumption is that every criminal attack is endorsed by "them" to let "them" control you more thoroughly. Excuse me if that sounds just a _little_ paranoid. You reckon there's some evil giggling genius sat in Washington, just trying to curtail your freedoms? Hell, your President can't hardly tie his shoe-laces, so what do you reckon the rest are like?!

The problem isn't that there's an integrated plan to screw you over, the problem is that there's no plan at all. So whilst one lot are pulling in one direction to get more control over guns by passing new laws, another lot are implementing those laws really slackly, which gets you right back to square one. Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 11:55 AM

I still think that I feel safer in the UK where only the bad guys and a few specially trained police have guns !

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 09:30 AM

You use "air quotes" alot, don't you, Uncle Jaque?

---Lepus "Rex"

Whatever it takes to get the point across, Mate!
And yes, I know that my spelling doth wax atrocious from time to time. Thanks for the critique though; room for growth is acknowledged.

~ Uncle Jaque

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Apr 02 - 03:59 PM

I've seen more than a couple of productions of "Our Town" that could be called 'crimes'!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 08 Apr 02 - 03:59 PM

You use "air quotes" alot, don't you, Uncle Jaque?

---Lepus "Rex"

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 08 Apr 02 - 03:53 PM

The whole idea of disempowering the populace is to increase dependancy on the Government / Ruling Elite.
Whoever we become dependant upon is in an ideal position to control us, no?

This is where "Selective Enforcement" comes in; certain laws, such as the pre - existing "Gun Laws" about 17 of which Dylan Kliebold and his fellow savage violated in the course of the Columbine Massacar - are not enforced enthusiasticly, if at all. This leads to a "crisis" of Criminals running around out of control, armed to the teeth and terrorizing the Community. The Police whine that they "don't have the resources" (Ie; "send more money", as if that ever works). The victimized sheeple cry out for more restrictive laws and "Law and Order" (just what Hitler provided for Germany, right?) and every criminal assault is used as an excuse to restrict personal Liberty just a little more, until a Police State is at length achieved. Until that time, Criminals are actually used by the powers that be to intimidate or in some cases eliminate potential dissenters.
Self defence is sanctioned against as "taking the Law into your own hands" - at least one Subject of the Queen is doing life without parolle for having the audacity to defend himself and his Family against an armed home invader a few years ago that I know of; there may be more. If you want the State to "protect" you, since you cannot protect yourself, you had best toe the Party line, pay your tribute without complaint, and always be a good little Komrade. Do you think I'm nuts? Check out your History! They do still teach that in the Government schools, don't they? Oh; right; there are a few things that we are not supposed to know... for our own good, of course.

Back in the old days there was a system for defending children from bullies. It was called "Family"; perhaps you've heard of it. If some punk, or gang of gremlins were terrorizing your kid, there were "Big Brothers", Cousins, or similar relations who would look said bully up and "even the score", after which things usually became more civil.
The best way to propigate terrorism is to tolerate it. Of course, that was before Lawyers and the ACLU took over this Country and "civilized" it for us.

Any one who relies exclusively on "The Police" to protect them from predation (I used to be one, folks)is just plain wrong. At some point, they may well be "Dead Wrong".

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Nemesis
Date: 07 Apr 02 - 06:02 PM

My son who's only just 14 was playing in the local park on Weds eve and 3 older youths came up, grabbed his and his friend's basket ball, demanded to know 'which school'. Basically, onto a loser whatever the answer! Punched him in the nose (broke his nose) to the ground, the other one who was busy puching up the other kid, then came over, kicked him in the head, in the face, (blacked his eye), split his lip badly...... and the Police don't have the resources to do much..

Then telling a friend, her 14 year old son the previous week had been set upon by a gang of 8 similar aged boys (different school) who'd mugged him in broad daylight for his skateboard, and then had strangled him to the point of asphyxication by one and kicked in the stomach, head, etc by the others.... and the Police don't have the resources to do much....

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 07 Apr 02 - 09:30 AM

That's funny; we don't see the usual diatribe in favor of "GunControl" (AKA "Victim Disarmament") one might expect in a more "Progresive" comunity. Could it be that "Reality" is finally making some inroads, here?

From a tactical standpoint, I would concur with "Guest" and misophist's post of 06-Apr-02, with one slight dissention; I humbly recomend #4 "Goose Shot" for home-defense utility. At typicaly close ranges encountered in such affairs, #4's will scatter a pound or two of an intruder's inward parts all over your flat, which will likely put a considerable damper on his enthusiasm for rape, murder, mayhem, plunder, or whatever he might take pleasure in doing with you and/or your Family without "overpenetrating" sheet - rock walls, windows etc. and causing "collatteral damage" to kids, pets, neighbors or property which might be innocently abiding on the other side somewhere, as even a .32" caliber #00 buckshot is apt to do, and a 9MM etc. is almost sure to do if the Gremlin is missed, which is a lot easier to do than the TV shows and movies tend to suggest.

Above contributers who reccomed training and practice also advise well, I opine. In the US most places where Freedom lingers (going fast, thanks to Liberal Politicians and their collaborators in the press, Media etc.)NRA Certified Instructors are available and usually offer basic firearms safety and management courses for a nominal fee. Generally, such a course is a prerequisite to obtaining a "Carry Permit", which is quite all right by me. Contrary to popular opinion, the NRA is every much about public safety as we are the preservation of Liberty.

One facet of Self - defence which does not get nearly enough press, IMHO, is that of attitude and lifestyle.
Some things which are every bit as important as proper equipment and training include awareness and sobriety.
In the above-mentioned annecdotes, alchohol intoxication was suggested in at least two of them; One was a victim; the fellow staggering home at 0300 from the Pub, probably well-oiled. This makes a potential victim extremely vunerable, and Criminals favor victims who impose limited risk to themselves.
The other involved a drunken Perpetrator; I seem to recall some statistic that suggests that a vast majority of violent crimes are commited by perps under the influence of booze, drugs, or both - which is consistant with my observations during my brief stint as a Military Policeman and NH State Trooper about 30 years ago.

One has to make a critical choice when establishing a personal security system, particulary as to the incorporation of a weapons system into that plan, assuming that such is a legal option (where it is not in an increasing number of Socialist Utopias around the World). In some cases, weapons in the home CAN impose more of a risk liability than a security assett. Such situations include recreational alchohol or drug use by inhabitants, which significantly reduce inhibitions and judgement of potential users, as well as reflexes and coordination in the event of a real criminal threat. The danger of unitended or colatteral casualties is increased significantly. If inhabitants are in the habit of "partying" where mind - altering substances are commonly used, it may be prudent to avoid having lethal weapons within the premises.
I have a personal policy whereby before I enjoy any "adult beverages" I do so in moderation, and only after all guns are cleared (unloaded) and secured at home, and I do not imbibe if I am "packing" abroad, or will leave the "piece" home if intending to imbibe.
I can recall back when I was in Law Enforcement going to a Bar and seeing fellow Officers getting delightfully tight with the handle of their .38 protruding from their hip - it scared the Hell out of me even 30 years ago when I was young and reckless.

A home where there is ANY domestic abuse issue is NOT the place for deadly weapons. Victims of that need to get out of the environment ASAP to begin with - after that it gets complicated way beyond this issue.

I know of homes in which resides an out-of-control and essentially unmanageable adolecent - usually a male - where the Parents have removed all guns and alchohol from the premises; sadly a reasonable course of action in such lamentable cases. History indicates that if a kid goes bad, they will obtain the material for mayhem somewhere irregardless of the law (we understand that criminals in the UK, which strictly prohibits private firearms ownership, are better armed than the Constabulary in most instances), but having them at hand in the home may be tempting fate; and don't suppose that any hiding-place can't be found out or "gun-lock" broken by a determined punk. My sympathies to any Families who have to put up with one.

The Homeowner or Family Member who resorts to a weapon for security MUST have firmly resolved to commit not only to gaining familiarity / proficiency with said system, but the mental resolve to USE IT in an appropriate situation; otherwise it is worse than useless; a perp can and will take it away and turn it on innocents - and we should all have an appreciation for just what catastrophy the criminal mind is capable of inflicting.

All those "Rights" us NRA - types keep harping about, like the proverbial Second Ammendment in what's left of our Constitution, include a concurrent RESPONSIBILITY, Amigos. That includes self-discipline, education, sobriety, Citizenship, and resolve to name a few. I think that our society would to well to reexamine that "Other 'R'-Word" from time to time in regards to this as well as many other issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: RichM
Date: 07 Apr 02 - 09:17 AM

Shooting to "kill" by using a handgun is problematic.

In the hands of most people-- police included-- they aren't accurate beyond several feet.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 02 - 09:12 AM

Spaw.. thats what happens when you give large capacity 9mm magazines to Cops... They "spray and pray" instead of aiming. This guy obviously tried a wounding shot rather than a killing one... Totally against his training... He should have shot to kill....

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 02 - 06:40 AM

Will you buy an alarm system?

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 12:06 PM

i remember a few years ago some teenage cranksters murdered another crank addict and then burned the body....this happened in my home town in North idaho....

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 11:28 AM

Geez, Sorch, things move kinda slowly in your part of the world!! I see what you mean -- it is obviously earth shaking to have four bad actors show up in one edition!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 11:23 AM

Yea, spaw, people are nutso. If you really want to read about the whole mess (for about the last month), click here. It's a local newspaper page, so I don't know how long the link will work.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 11:17 AM

But that fourth shot was a humdinger!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 10:54 AM

As most know, I live in a very small village of about 12 streets and not much happens here. About 10 years ago a guy was parkes in front of his girlfriend's house around the corner and a little ways down from us. He was honking the horn and yelling at her and was obviously drunk as a skunk. He starts in on the fact that he's gonna' kill himself and whips out a .38 and starts swinging it around and takes a shot at her house! The small group of people who had gathered on the corner all split....me too!

About this time a sheriff turned the corner and the guy hops back into his car and roars off. For about the next 5 minutes they have this chase through town.....small streets, kids playing.....and the deputy keeps up the chase.....dumb. They wind up back in front of the girlfriend
s house and are now followed by LOTS of cars who are out to see the action! I mean there are pickups with assholes hauling their kids.........it was nuts! Down on my corner there are probably 200 people crowded around watching to see what happens next!

The Deputy gets out with gun drawn and the guy staggers out of his car and in reply to the Deputy makes aspersions as to his ancestry and suggests impossible sex acts. The Deputy keeps telling him to lie down and the guy, now about 20 feet from the Deputy, raises his gun......not to a firing position, just swinging it. This was enough and the Deputy gave him one more warning and when the guy kept coming, the Deputy fired......FOUR TIMES.....mainly because the first three shots missed and the fourth finally hit him in the knee. Luckily, no one was hit by the others! One hit a basement window, one a tree, and the other was never found....but you should have seen the crowd scatter! When it was over the crowd had grown to probably 300 and I had thoughts of selling hot dogs and lemonade from my front porch...............Gawd I love shitkickers and small towns.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 10:43 AM

Your'e lucky Sorcha a crazy man with a knife atacked 5 people a couple of days ago, thankfully he only managed to kill one of them (this was about 3 hundred yards from my house!) the same night a young man was stabbed for his mobile phone, the local papers are full of murders and muggings.Don't let this put anyone off visiting Hull though, most of us are friendly.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: mack/misophist
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 10:28 AM

If you absolutely HAVE to keep a weapon at home, stick with a short shotgun and buckshot. It's better for use in the dark. And remember: most people shot in the home are shot with their own guns. Me, I like knives; quiter, safer, and most people are afraid of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 12:47 AM

Don't buy any gun. Be specific.

You need an 18 1/4 inch "peacemaker" shot gun, first shell buckshot - second shell a slug for short-range within the house protection. You also need a 9mm or 45. It is IMPORTANT to practice with both at a firing range and also receive NRA training.

You, and your family, deserve the security of safety which come from being prepared for violent elements within our society.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: X
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 12:37 AM

It's a good thing none of you live in San Diego like I do. The town where the cops kill more people than the bad guys do.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 04:44 PM

Who was the well known scientist, Bobert? I missed that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 04:43 PM

WD, we know it's here, along with everything else. It's just that it rarely happens, and almost never back to back like this. One big incident every few months is what is normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 04:40 PM

Have guns, have kelvar......(grin) Mr. got the Armed Robbery, but not the homicide. He is on day shift just now, and the stabbing was about 9PM last night. Hasn't had time to hit the papers yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: harpmaker
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 04:39 PM

A bloke in his 50s was walking home from the pub the other night, where I live, (Hull, UK). He got stabed to death. Crazy times are these. John.

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 04:19 PM

Geez, Sorcha, maybe I'd better start getting the local paper, again? Hadn't heard any of this on the radio, today. Was Himself on duty at the time? Really sorry to hear about such goings-on in yer little town.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 04:03 PM

Danged, Sorcha, bummer. Just goes to show ya that no one has the market captured in bad folks. We had a well known scientist killed with a sword by a friend of his daughters just last month in these parts where homicides are also rare. The daughter had asked this kid to do it...

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 04:00 PM

Buy a gun quick....

Subject: RE: BS: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 03:50 PM

Welcome to the 21st Century!
Here's your Kevlar® vest.

Truly, I'm sorry you and yours had the rudest of awakenings, both literally and figuratively.

Subject: Crime Spree in 'Our Town'!
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 03:38 PM

Good grief, here I am living in a little backwater town of 5,000 souls more or less, and NOTHING ever happens. Yea, right. In the last 12 hrs we have had an armed robbery at a drugstore/chemist's (she wanted fifteen cents worth of Vicodin!) and stabbing/homicide. The stabbing was just a block up from us at 3 AM this morning.....I slept through it all.

This is more than usually happens in a year here. We're all walking around with our mouths open. The world has gone crazy out there!