Clarinet help

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 May 02 - 02:02 PM

You can find a modern maker of these kinds of instruments at Selmer,

or go directly to Selmer Products Index

and then to Selmer Woodwinds Index.

I note that the top page includes a "Selmer History" link that might be interesting. I'll have to go back and look at it later.

Links on the woodwind page go to the following:

Selmer Clarinets has some fairly good pictures of typical modern clarinets. Unfortunately, they don't make a "metal" one now. At the bottom of the page is a link to a .pdf that shows some more detailed pictures of wooden and resin clarinets, but be warned that it's rather large (2+ MB) so may take longer to (down)load than is worthwhile.

Selmer Professional Saxophones will let you compare your instrument to eliminate the possibility that it's not a clarinet. The links on this page to Eb Sopranino Saxophone or Bb Soprano Saxophone will show the general shape of these instruments.

Discussion mongers may want to bookmark those last two. They're fairly clean reference pictures.

The quick check: - - so far as I've seen, all clarinets have a mouthpiece with a cork ring at the "bottom" that slips inside the mating part on the main instrument. Saxophones have no cork on the mouthpiece, and the mouthpiece goes on the outside of a corked area on the mating part.

Technically, both the sax and clarinet have a "bell," which is a sort of "flare" at the bottom. The main bore of a clarinet is a straight cylinder. A saxophone is conical, and the diameter at the "last pad" on the bottom will be about twice the diameter up at the top of the instrument.

The straight bore on the clarinet means that a "register" is a twelfth. The same fingering, "blown up" to the next harmonic, is an octave plus a fifth (so clarinettists automatically learn to finger in at least two "keys." The conical bore of the saxophone allows it to "register" in octaves - like a pennywhistle.

As a side note, I've seen several such instruments - sax and clarinet - in small museums recently, and every one of the had the mouthpiece on upside down. (Obviously non-musician curators.) The Reed Goes On The Bottom.

John

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 02 - 01:56 PM

What fogie is saying here Mick is that a clainet has a cylindrical bore while a saxophone has a conical bore. Also a clarinet uses the fingers to close some of the tone holes and a sax uses keys for all....no finger-covered "open" tone holes. Soprano Sax and a Metal Clarinet

Also, I knew if I looked I'd find one.....This page will ID the type of fingering system your clarinet has for you.

You can have a lot of fun with the thing Mick but you'll end up having to argue with some music stores and repair shops for parts or repairs because they'll tell you it isn't worth it. You can get everything you need and if no one else will overhaul it, send it to me and Bill and I will do it for you (he also makes the lamps, but is an outstanding clarinetist). Or remember, Lowe's sells lots of lamp parts..........

Mick, sometime I'll tell you how it was that I quit playing reeds and jazz. It was one of the few conscious decisions of my life!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: fogie
Date: 13 May 02 - 01:03 PM

by bell shaped I mean conical , increasing in diameter. the length of the bore .

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: fogie
Date: 13 May 02 - 12:12 PM

Mick you just have to find a picture of a standard straight soprano sax, for instance its what Kenny G plays. The C-melody is between the size of it and a sopranino, and is bell rather than tube shaped

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 May 02 - 07:55 AM

I had a few minutes before I head off to work, so I thought I would check in. Sure as the dickens, Mudcat has come through with exactly what I wanted. I wasn't looking to sell it, or anything. It is such a cool looking instrument that it really piqued my curiosity.

Nope, this baby ain't going to end up as a lamp. In fact I think I will try my hand at rehabitabilitating it. Some of the pads need replacement, but I just have to give it a try. If I can just play a scale, I will be happy. My guess is that it is a Bb clarinet, but I am not sure. Of course, if I can play a scale, I may have to try a song. And if that happens, I may..........shit, you all know how this goes..........where can I get lamp parts????

fogie, I don't think its a soprano sax, but then again, I know very little about these things. Can you tell me how to spot the difference, or direct me to a web page with a picture?

Bob, I sure hope we can meet someday. You are always so helpful and right there with follow through. Thanks for your efforts on this one.

Allie...........I am with you. I love just having the various instruments and monkeying around with them. In the house I have three guitars, uillean pipes, Irish bouzouki, 2 bodhrans, a fiddle, several keyboards, 15 pennywhistles, numerous "egg" shakers including one shaped like a spud (potato), and now a clarinet (I think).

John and Spaw, you both have provided invaluable info. My family may eend up hating you both for it, cause you have sufficiently aroused enough interest that I am going to try and coax tolerable sound out of this thing..........hahahahahaha.

Thanks all,

Mick

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: fogie
Date: 13 May 02 - 06:08 AM

This may be a silly question , but are you sure that its a clarinet, if you really dont know much about them its possible you may have a marching band C-melody soprano sax. and if thats the case it will be conical with big paddles ? if it is I ll happily correspond with you all day

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 May 02 - 01:30 AM

Big Mick -

As a whistle player, you may actually have something of an advantage in trying to play your clarinet.

The whistle has six finger holes, and the "tonic" note sounds when all six holes are covered.

You will find a similar six places to put those fingers, but on the clarinet you get the second note of the major scale with all six fingers down. What would be D E F# G a b c# on the D whistle will be a relative D E F G a b c on the clarinet, so you need to modify the fingerings to get the F# and c#, but the "mental mode" to play in "clarinet D," which for a Bb clarinet happens to be "concert C" is very much like playing the whistle.

Many typical high-school band clarinetists have a lot of trouble getting to this key, but it should feel pretty "natural" to you.

I'd suggest getting a fresh reed, preferably rather soft (a number 1.5?), and it would be helpful if you could find someone to show you the nuances of aligning the reed. Be sure to moisten the reed well before attempting to play. (The reed will probably "curl" when you first moisten it. Soak it until its flat.)

I didn't go very far into this site, but you might find something helpful at Clarinet Players Home Page. I think I saw reference to a fingering chart?

As to the lamp - there is certainly no need to damage the clarinet to incorporate it into a stunning piece of furniture. It's just one way of putting something of sentimental value out where you can see it frequently.

But if mom thought you'd want to play it - you don't dare not try????

John

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: allie kiwi
Date: 13 May 02 - 12:59 AM

If it were me, I'd leave the pads as they are. If the instrument hasn't much value for it's palyability, I think it's beter to leave it in it's original state, even for 'sentimental' value. But then I love old instruments, whether I can play them or not. *narrows eyes at people making 'lamp' comments* There's a nice wee collection sitting near me right now!

Allie

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 13 May 02 - 12:52 AM

G'day again Big Mick,

JohnInKansas and Spaw seem to have summed up the the odds on the instrument pretty well. My lunchtime discussion with Christiaan doesn't really add anything they have not already covered.

I like to get some less "Folkie" instruments into big groups, such as the Bush Music Club's Heritage Ball a few weeks back (27 April) ... if only to remind people that the real folk played whatever they had to hand! I see a lot of 19th century photographs of small family or local groups in the Australian outback with instruments we tnd to think of as "orchestral" today - and wooden clarinets are quite common.

In this year's Heritage Ball, we had a later date for the style, building it round ANZAC Day - Australia's main military holiday - so we set it in 1915. As well as the usual fiddles, concertinas, accordions (one played by Alison ... in between dashing back and forth to the St Albans Festival), whistles, flutes &c, this year I had a cornet and a small euphonium, which added some interesting colour to the band music of the 1910s era.

If the instrument is in a reasonably playable state, it could be interesting ... if it needs much work it probably isn't worth it.

regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 May 02 - 12:33 AM

Mick -

I'd probably have to agree with Spaw - it'd make a nice lamp.

If the instrument has not been played for a while, it's likely that the leather pads have hardened to the point of being - at best - marginally playable. And it's unlikely that, as an instrument, it's worth the cost of pad replacement, unless you want to fool with it yourself.

A warning if you do play it - the clarinet is a fairly "strong" instrument, so you may be welcome only in the bagpipe and squeezebox section of a session.

John

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 02 - 12:13 AM

Mick, I think you've got the basic info on the company already.

The clarinet has only whatever sentimental value that is attached and you can have fun fooloing around with it, but it's playability is limited and probably at least 90% of the metal clarinets still in existence are lamps. That's not a joke, I'm completely serious. I have a music teacher friend who has made probably around 50 of them and they are very common in the homes of "band" people.

It's also difficult to date using the fingering system since Albert system and Boehm system have great overlaps.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 May 02 - 12:04 AM

Metal clarinets are quite commonly used as "school instruments," although the plastic ones have pretty much displaced them in the "new instrument" area.

The Ohio Band Instrument Company was active in the 1950s, I believe; although I don't have records at hand to verify this. I know that I saw some of their instruments in that time period, but I don't know how old they might have been then.

The preferred material for "performance grade" clarinets has always been wood, although the newer plastic models may closely simulate the resonance of wood. Until about 1955?, when Selmer introduced the "Bundy" plastic model, metal clarinets were produced primarily as "student" and "marching band" models. Wood does not stand the rigors of hot breath and frigid football stadia very well, and people were reluctant to expose their good grenadillas to such conditions.

There was also the belief that the metal clarinets stood up better to the rigors of young student use - and they were considerably cheaper than a decent wood model, which was important if you were equipping a Jr Hi or High School band.

True "C" clarinets are very rare, with "Bb" being the most common. "A" tunings are/were made for "orchestral" work, and wooden (or plastic) Bb clarinets could be "played in A" by substituting an "A" neckpiece (the short piece that the mouthpiece fits into). Some "better grade" wood clarinets are sold with both necks. Intonation is generally a little better in one or the other of the two keys, but can be acceptable for any but the most finicky concert performance.

Since the metal instruments were used almost exclusively as "marching band" or "student" instruments, it would be exceedingly rare to find one in any key other than Bb.

The clarinet is fully chromatic, and can play "all the notes." It can thus be played in any key.

Compared to a flute or pipe or pennywhistle, the clarinet is a fairly "high pressure" instrument, so even minor leaks at the pads or corked joints can produce rather horrendous squawks - one of the reasons many people consider it a little more difficult to play (well) than some similar instruments.

There have been a number of "historical" changes in key mechanisms that can be used to "date" a given clarinet fairly accurately, but "hands-on" examination - and the appropriate reference books - would be necessary for any meaningful guesstimates.

A quick comparison with a "modern Boehm" clarinet would indicate whether the instrument is pre - 1930 or so, since that's about the time when the "modern" mechanisms started showing up. Dating anything earlier may be more difficult.

John

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: allie kiwi
Date: 12 May 02 - 11:54 PM

It sounds to me like a student instrument from the 30's, probably silver or nickle plated, rather than solid. But I could be wrong. Eitherway, it's great to have!

Allie
green with jealousy

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 12 May 02 - 11:17 PM

G'day Big Mick,

The usefulness depends on the basic key and/or the skill of the player. I've made use of players of old wooden clarinets, in the key of 'C', for Australian traditional groups, but this one is probably in Bb. A really skilled player can play it in any key ... but that's neither you nor me!

Instruments are usually wood ... or wood-looking plastic for cheap ones ... but metal instruments have their proponents. I saw some vaguely eastern (Turkish?)ones in metal on one of the American instrument-sellers' sites (Lark in the Morning?) but these were in the key of 'G' and so more useful for less adept players.

I noticed some metal ones at a local (Sydney, Australia) shop Accordions 'n' Folk ... and Christiaan Dolislager, proprietor of same, was the player of the old wooden 'C' clarinet I mentioned above. I'll run the secription past him - but it doesn't relate much to your area, anyway.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Clarinet help
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 May 02 - 10:53 PM

Was it Leena, Leenia, or somebody like that (Italian, living in Oz) that was a clarinetist???

Subject: Clarinet help
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 May 02 - 10:36 PM

Here's one for the lot of you. I am at my beloved Mother's house for Mothers Day and she says she has a gift for me. She hands me this old, but in very nice shape, instrument case. I open it and find a silver clarinet. Wonderful looking instrument, obviously from the pre 1950, and probably from the 30's, based on the look of it and the accessories in the case. I know nothing about these instruments and I am looking for information on it. As a whistle player and beginning piper, it intrigues me.

First, a description. It is chrome or plated. All metal. It appears to have leather pads on the keys. On the bell or flared end, there is a shield with a crown engraved. Within the engraved shield it says the following, "The Regent. Ohio Band Instrument Co. Cleveland, O.

I tried a google search for collectors sites, but didn't find anything germane. I am interested in information on the company and the instrument. I am just interested, nothing more.

Any clarinet afondicios out there?

Mick