Folklore: Bonfire Night

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: Declan
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:57 AM

August 15th is the feast of the Assumption, and it looks like some wrong one have been made on this thread.

Hrothgar thats a very broad statement about the Irish and their Christianity, but I know what you mean. A couple of years ago there was a discussion on the Radio about the numbers of refugees and asylum seekers coming into Ireland. During the dabate someone said that they were worried that with all these foreigners coming in that Ireland would cease to be a Christian country ! Ironic or what ?

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:46 AM

Well I think Hrothgar and Philippa are both wrong. The Feast of the Immaculate Conception, as any skoolboy nose, celebrates the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary, not that of Jesus Christ (there was a lot of immaculate conception about in those days) and actually occurs on Dec 8. Remember the motes and beams, Hrothgar??!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: Hrothgar
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:26 AM

Phillippa,

15 August is the feast of the Assumption (of Our Lady into heaven).

The Immaculate Conception (and the Annunciation, if I remember rightly) is on 25 March - a nice handy 9 months before Christmas.

It's a shame some of the Irish who make such a to-do of their religion(s) have so much trouble being Christians, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 02:55 PM

Well, this seems like a good place to post a recitation written by a friend's father (hope I replace all the begin & end quotes with double primes):

ST. JOHN'S EVE
Recitation by Donnagh McDonnagh
(And learned from his son, Niall McDonnagh)

St. John was a man with a mission
And he lived in a very poor way.
He ate locust and toad for breakfast
And water nate for his tay.
He was preaching hellfire and damnation.
Company keepers he damned.
No dance license ever was granted
While St. John was abroad in the land.
For dancing he thought was unholy,
A shocking occasion of sin.
He advised the young men in the country
To avoid everything feminine.
But there was a young one named Salome,
A devil to dance and to sing,
And she took a great liking to St. John
So she went to her father, the king.
"If I dance will you give me a present?" says she,
And the old lad agrees.
So she started to dance like an angel
"nd the king sitting back at his ease.
"Very nice," says your man when she's winded,
"Very nice, and what will you have?
"Oh daddy dear, give me St. John,
The lovely young man for me slave."
"Very well," says the king, "You can have him."
But John, being a saint, says no fear.
So Salome was mad and her dad says,
"Right, you can cut off his ear."
"No, no, says Salome, "his head please."
So she danced with his head 'round the court.
And bonfires on John's Eve remind us
That dancin' is dangerous sport!

(We shout the last line.)

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: AliUK
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 02:49 PM

Here in Brazil St. John´s is celebrated with bonfires. Here in the south ( where I´m living Now) it isn´t celebrated much. But in the NOrtheast ( where I used to live) it is a massive celebration akin to Carnival. There are bonfires outside of nearly every house, and fireworks and food made mostly from corn, such as PAMONHA, MUNGUZÁ AND BARBECUED CORN-ON-THE-COB amongst other things. In the interior of Pernambuco there is a three day music festival mostly with FORRÓ. Great stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 02:19 PM

St John was given the day to try and put a Christian meaning to a very pagan festival of midsummer, whether it's John the Baptist or any of the other 14 sainted Johns between 20th and 26th June.... (27 in total for the month). Being a quarter day, (Lady day 25/03, Michaelmas day 29/09 and Christmas day 25/12 being the others), it was also a day when contracts were signed, house moves completed (thus rubbish created and presumably destroyed), new jobs found and started. Those who worked seasonal jobs would be changing from sowing and ploughing to reaping and haymaking. In all, it was a day of upheaval and change, and a popular time for marriage (all those Beltane celebration babies now confirmed as being on the way and the Samhain ones about to be born.....), plus people were still fairly fresh from the yearly bath in May. Longer daylight hours meant that you could fit a wedding in around your usual jobs and the evenings were warm enough for a dance or celebration without wasting candles or lamps.

Personally I celebrated it with a ramble in the new mown hay (we followed the farmer on his reaper), a walk where the oats and beans and barley grow, and a screaming migraine that had me throwing up in a darkened room. I know of no folk songs that mention throwing up in a darkened room but I daresay someone will come up with one.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:52 AM

Here in the US I wish we could sacrifice a Republican, as the quaint saying goes!

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 10:40 AM

Sounds like an excellent way to celebrate midsummer! I lit a few candles but didn't go so far as to have a bonfire.

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 10:18 AM

My friends in Denmark tell me that they have just gotten back from spending the weekend around their Mid-Summer's eve bonfire.

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:09 AM

we believe the custom of bonfires at St John's eve derived from the summer solstice bonfire ... the date has been moved. And quite possibly the July 12 bonfires replaced that in parts of Northern Ireland. And from the July 12 bonfires probably came the Aug 12 Loyalist bonfires in Derry (Apprentice Boys commemoration) and in response to that Aug 15 Feast of the Immaculate Conception bonfires in Derry on the other side of the sectarian divide![in the last couple of years this custom has declined due to community leaders' concerns about environment and safety - street parties are replacing the bonefires)But the St John's eve custom does survive in many places.

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 07:15 PM

No bonfires here, let me tell ya!! (Western US) We have quite enough bonfires as it is, thank you very much. (Don't know of the tradition on June 23. Have heard of it on Guy Fawkes, Solstice and Samhain but not the 23rd.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bonfire Night
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 05:10 PM

I was in the Gweedore area on St John's Eve last year and saw many small bonfires. I understand there are several areas where the custom survives. And it is observed in Norway and Sweden too.
I don't know about those noise-makers

Subject: Bonfire Night
From: Fiolar
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 05:51 AM

When I were a lad growing up in Ireland, today June 23rd, St. John's Eve was the occasion for bonfires all over the country side. The materials were gathered for weeks before hand and it was quite a sight to see the numbers of fires as darkness approached. Fire were usually lit on high ground. Home made noise makers were a common feature and these consisted of a lemonade bottle with the bottom removed and blown into in the manner of a primitive trumpet. How was it made? The trick was to put about an inch of water in the bottom and to carefully place the bottle on some hot coals. By being very careful, the glass cracked neatly around the edge of the water and was better than a glass cutter could ever do.Fireworks were never used at least around my part of the country. Happy days. I wonder if the custom has now died out?