A Mudcat's Mind at Work

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 02 - 01:53 AM

Hey, I know a guy who acts like a politician but is actually an animated bush!


A

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 11:46 PM

"Skulls...strictly vegetarian in structure"

I know a guy who has a carrot for a brain (but he's in politics so he's harmless). Does that count?

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Dave Swan
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 11:13 PM

In my efforts to be brief, I probably misquoted Peter. I think his point wasn't that humans rule the joint, he wondered aloud about whether our urge to dominate and our aggressivness spring from having hardware capable of extracting marrow, and so on.

At least I think that's what he was on about. He's a lot brighter than the limited likes of me.

Willie, p.j. talks about predator's vs. prey's skulls; feeding adaptations of skulls, beaks and jaws; the significance of the human skull in various cultures as an object of art, worship, decoration, etc.; how animals survive without skulls (remember that most of the animals on earth don't have skulls). She's on her feet in the lecture hall about six days a week this time of year, offering six or seven different programs in rotation.

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Mudlark
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 09:48 PM

Ah, Amos, sure and you give the fairies a bad name! Though a religious woman, my grandmother never saw God but she definitely saw fairies...and made them so real I'm pretty sure I've seen them too...

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Amos
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 07:20 PM

I always thought God was some kinda fairy!! :>)

A

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 07:16 PM

Would that mean that Pinocchio was really Adam and that the Good Fairy is God?

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Snuffy
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 07:12 PM

"I'm sticking with you 'Cause I'm made out of glue"

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 04:26 PM

You mean we're not made of wood?

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: MAG
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 04:19 PM

thread creep: this leads right back to the movie thread: one of my favorite underrated movies of recent years: *Dominion.* A thoughtful response to the biblical claim that ( ) gave Adam dominion over the animals.

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Amos
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 03:03 PM

Oh, Kendall, surely that can't be right!!! LOL!!! You need to have your own skull checked!

Mudlark, you sure make some telling points; I think in terms of acreage that does what we want it to, we must be right up there with the termites, bugs, and other so-called "lesser" organisms in calling the shots. And we seem to to be the only species that has managed to improve its natural speed of travel, escape from the planet, and build a leisure-wear industry; maybe th eonly one that has invented religions, too!(Not necessarily something I would brag about!).

I am greatly struck by Jen's phrase The best we could ever lay claim to is a poorly used loan. . We're not kings around here, even as a species -- merely incompetent stewards!

A

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: kendall
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 02:27 PM

Did you know that the whale is not a mammal at all? It's an insect, and, it eats banannas. (Monty Python)

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Mudlark
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 02:08 PM

I have to agree with Bill K. Assuming we humans rule the world is a tad anthropocentric. I've read that there are termite hills in Africa that are centuries old, the erosion of wind and water far exceeds anything man has accomplished and many insects still going strong, with complex societies, are virtually the same as long before we got up off all 4's. I have personal experience with the fact that the plague of earwigs I live with outwit anything (short of pesticides, which I refuse to use) I can throw at them from my lofty intellectual (relatively!) height.

The crafty engineering involved in bee hives, ant tunnels and termite nests is as meaningless to most of us as the Roman Forum is to your everyday Italian beetle. We don't even have a monopoly on the arts: bower birds consciously pretify the homes they build for their ladies, crickets sing (in tune with the temperature, no less) and a early morning dewy spiderweb must be the one of the most beautiful and ephemeral combinations of fragility, structure and beauty on this earth.

As to skulls, I'm sure I've got one, but sometimes my mind feels like seeds rattling around in a gourd.

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Willie-O
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 12:18 PM

I'm pretty sure I have one, having been informed numerous times, by my betters, of its thickness.

If it has any thickness, it has to be there to start with.

And just by the way, what approximately does p.j. have to say to those interested in skulls?

W-O

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Amos
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 12:09 PM

True, Bill -- but they don't extinguish grass fires, re-route rivers, install plumbing, or use hydro power to build roads and shelters that last for centuries. They adapt to their environment. Nor, as far as I know, do they create beauty gratis beauty. Humans do. Humans also tend to wreak change int he environment to adapt it to their presumed needs. In my opinion, the problem in human rationality is not the engineering skills we have brought to bear as such, but the badly misassessed defintion of human needs. We substitute market potential for a genuine needs assessment, which is terribly democratic, sure, but does tend to reinforce the screaming stupidity of the larger numbers south of the median who can be influenced by marketing efforts to a ridiculous degree.

As for skulls, I know I have one -- I can see or feel it anytime. As to the data-flow diagram described by Jen, I am glad that is not the whole story by a good measure. I do think that if we had taken a chlorophyllic turn way back, and had somehow acheived some sort of dominance through social sequoiaity, which is a charming idea, we would probably be much more empathetic and much more competent at the kind of engineering that enhances rather than disrupts organic balances in the environment. We'd probably use roots and tendrils in place of opposable thumbs, and everything would take much longer, but be much better thought-out. There was a great society on a distant planet that was built on some of these principles in the "Mudcat Enterprise" thread -- cosmic battles between treehuggers and Disneyoids -- a great tale.

BS: Mudcat Tavern Enterprise, Part 5

BS: Mudcat Tavern Enterprise Part 4

Mudcat Tavern Enterprise Part 3

MudCat Tavern Enterprise Part 2

MudCat Tavern Enterprise

Enjoy!


A

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 11:39 AM

who says we rule anything? ants are everywhere around the globe, we are hardly a blip on their radar. well organised and run entirely by females, only allowing males to develop when they need them for fertilization, then no more. not a bad system, and they will be here, exoskelatally, long after we and all our crap are dust.

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: JenEllen
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 11:28 AM

Seeing as I'm not known for my sterling conversational skills, I don't think I'd be the least bit out of character in saying "Well, duh."

Would we rule the planet if skulls were a vegetarian structure? Hell, we don't rule the planet now. The best we could ever lay claim to is a poorly used loan. A question of whether or not to believe in skulls? Preposterous. You believe in asses, don't you? Presumably not just because they're easier to point out? Without skulls, there would be a lot of unemployed masks (not to mention biologists), Hamlet never would have recognized Yorick, MRI's would be dead boring, and we would never have that sparkly sensation when someone drops something and you both go for it the same time and 'klonque'---therefore, I believe.

Function and structure is easy enough to understand in the concrete, the framework adapts to the needs of the whole, with variations and anomalies that swirl everywhere from the malformed skull of Joseph Merrick to the nearly transparent skulls of neonatal rodents. The truly mysterious part is what the framework protects, namely the ball of neurons that can be used for either good or ill. It really is a shame that humans can't lay sole claim to the skull, it being a perfect metaphor for human rationality (affectionately known to herself as 'Here-We-Go-Again-Zen and the Art of the Pointless Question')--with the control center of a creature's life being sheltered by the frame, only getting bits of information fed through a few tiny holes, and still pretending it might possibly have a clue as to what is going to happen next.

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 07:42 AM

I suppose Ents might have been envisaged as having wooden skeletons.

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: smallpiper
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 05:37 AM

Just think that if we had a wooden skeletal system all those archaeologists, anthropologists, orthopaedics specialists would be out of work! Break a leg and go to the carpenters for a quick repair.

Yes indeed life would be very different, but what makes you think that we dominate this planet? See Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy! White mice rule!

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 04:58 AM

Odd question indeed! If what is meant is "what if instead of bone we had a wooden skeleton" - well, we would also have to have either a different joint structure (because the strength and wear is different) or a different repair mechanism or maybe just a very different life cycle and appearance where the effects were not so significant.

On balance, I'd say life would be a bit different!

On the other hand if the question really only means the skull rather than the entire skeleton then I reckon extinction would loom. A body that needs to support at least one more nourishment/repair mechanism than necessary would almost certainly be at a disadvantage compared to other competitors.

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 01:28 AM

LOL, Amos; Sequoiaty indeed.

OK- I don't know what is meant by 'vegetarian' structure? Obviously you don't mean teeth. Elucidate, please?

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Amos
Date: 13 Aug 02 - 11:46 PM

Cows are not vegetarian in structure, only in their diet. A different mix of parts indeed -- cellulose and chlorophyll, carbon-exchange; but there is some evidence (I've heard) for the quick intelligence of such life-forms (Backus, I think, Secret Life of Plants). So who knows? Domination would probably be a different proposition -- judging by all the antecedents it would not be through high mobility and striking blows, but perhaps by strong communities, deep roots and surviving higher and wider. We would not have to worry about money because we'd be covered by Social Sequoiaty.

A

Subject: RE: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 02 - 11:38 PM

"Would we rule the planet if our skulls were strictly vegetarian in structure?"

Well, judging by cows' rank, if we were strictly vegetarian, we would not. On the other hand, tigers don't rule the world either.

Subject: A Mudcat's Mind at Work
From: Dave Swan
Date: 13 Aug 02 - 11:04 PM

Peter T. left us last week, after a visit of four too short days. We had the pleasure of his company and the privilege of a look into his too quick mind. We spoke of music, literature, theatre, philosophy, humour, aeornautics, trivia and the nature of sudden realities.

p.j. lectures at the California Academy of Sciences, and we went to hear her speak at the SKULLS exhibit. This installation, featuring 2,500 skulls of modern and ancient species, considers the functinal, structural and cultural implications of calcium in a protein matrix. As we looked upon the exhibit in anticipation of p.j.'s lecture, Peter posed the following questions: "Do you really believe that there is a skull inside your head?" and "Would we rule the planet if our skulls were strictly vegetarian in structure?" Hmmmm.

The same guy had been playing banjo in our living room that morning.

The Mudcat community friends, continues to bring us more than we had imagined.

Thanks, Max.

Dave & pj.