Lyr Add: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: InOBU
Date: 31 Aug 02 - 09:10 AM

Good analogy, Shambles!
As with the PEL laws, the fact that the system does damage, great damage, the few good people working within the system are blamed for the failure of the system. This is not a generalisation, it is the observaton of one who has to pick up the bodies, quite litterally. YES! There are social workers, who like Ms. Shambles and Morticia care and try to do no harm, in fact, it was such a social worker who brought me in to help Columbia University's program begin to understand Roma. But, look at it from my point of view, this particular branch of social science, rather than argueing for diversity, has established White Euro-American culture as the only norm in the courts in which I labour, This is the definition of racialism. To say that your norm, no matter how old, no matter how successful, is wrong, a vestage of the past, that our norm, with our abandoned children, drugs, old people's homes, prositution, murder, is the only norm, and your system, you Vlax Roma, that in the US do none of the above, is abnormal and we will shatter your cultural (and I would argue national) institutions with no concern over the fact that in Europe where this was done, Roma suffer not only from anti Gypsy prejudice, but have fallen into the worst case of being sub working class ruined societies.
I think a few good social workers feelings are worth examining the trend. I end again, with thanks to those like Morticia who try to understand, but we MUST change this terrible system of bending other societies to look like ours. Open doors, but don't shove folks through them.
CHeers and END THE PELS! & Roma OPRE!
Larry
(PS Roma opre... Roma Stand up!)

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Aug 02 - 03:08 AM

Sorry my quote was incomplete, this is it.

Its all very well drawing up policies, but when we have to have regard for the Human Rights Act the victims usually turn out to be the residents of Weymouth and Portland - who have to put up with these people.

I take all of your points Larry but I think we are just stating the obvious about generalisations. I tend to do the same, when talking about Council officers. I have certain individuals in mind when I do this, but it is counter-productive to lump them together as many of them may be in complete agreement with my view.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: InOBU
Date: 30 Aug 02 - 11:53 PM

PS... I was at a conference in my capasity as a judge in an American Native court. Jannet Reno, the Att. Gen. of the US offered us jails - non-native cops, and new court rooms. Justice Mary Winn of the Coleville Nation in the North West, rose and said... "Ms Reno, I can offer you a reasoned legal arguement to answer your offer. But, I'd rather tell you a story. Once upon a time the geese flew in a V. The Spirit of the Sky looked down and said, that is not the way to do it, fly in a straight line and leadership is apparant. They said, none of us is strong enough to be the leader. The spirit of the sky said, follow me and I will show you how. The geese took off after him in a straight line and the eagle looked down and said, Mmmmm. Lunch. He started at the last goose and ate his way to the first. When the spirit of the sky landed, the creator said WHere are my geese? The spirit of the sky said, It wasn't me, it was the eagle. Ms. Reno, you say, it isn't me, it is drug addiction, crime. Well we Indians have been following you in a straight line for 500 years. Now there are not enough of us to keep trying to fly in your line, we need to learn to fly in our V again, we need our sweat lodges, our children need to listen to our elders... we don't need your jails thank you."
Cheers, Larry

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: InOBU
Date: 30 Aug 02 - 11:46 PM

Mortica:
You may not be whistling down the wind, but I find the difference between Social Workers and Sociolgists in the Roma community, is that the first is concerned with the rights of her subject in light of the lack of understanding of the society, and the second is concerned with their reputation in light of the lack of understanding of the subject.
I would be happy if you are ever over in the states to show you the difference between the two communities I serve. The Native American community, you find victems of social programs, programatic forced assimilation on the streets ... I know because they know I will drive them to drug free and alcohol free reserves if they want and can sober up. You don't see Roma on our streets drunk on drugs or begging. This is because our government has not, on a large scale found that they are here and have been here since the late seventeenth century.
Now, I take on your word your concern for those you serve in your work, but whistling in the wind? You have to accnowlege that as a whole social workers have been in the front lines of the forced assimilation which has blasted the societal structure of many many traditional cultures. If you doupt it, I can introduce you to the victems, here and there. Yes, you have to do a lot of clean up, but the mess was created by your side of the equation.
Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: Morticia
Date: 30 Aug 02 - 07:49 PM

thank you Rog, I felt I was whistling down the wind here

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: InOBU
Date: 30 Aug 02 - 07:23 PM

Hi Fellows...
One thing also that makes things in the US so different, is that the Vlax are a complete cultural isolate, so their old system still works. There is no statistical instance of murder, maybe 6 in the history of Roma in the US, no abondonment of children, rich full lives for the elderly at home, care given mentaly difficent members without the institutionalising of them... but the courts often believe the myth that they are a criminal underworld. We also have a romanichal and pavee community, also much more of a cultural isolate then in the UK, It is not so much a matter of enimy here, as the first stage of an invation that in eastern Europe resulted in herin adiciton homelessness and horrors beyond belief when the Kris (roma courts) and familia (extended family) and vitsa (tribe) was lost. Before we think of taking a sledge hammer to something that works, we better have a better offer! In England, I have seen that there has been a different history, as in Ireland, and the two host nations are in a different stage of interaction.
Keep up the well meaning work,
Develssa, hai sastimos, hai Baxtalay
Larry

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Aug 02 - 06:55 PM

One of our local councillors in the local paper tonight.

Its all very well drawing up policies, but when we have to have regard for the Human Rights Act the victims usually turn out to be the residents of Weymouth and Portland

Mrs Shambles also works as one of the 'enemy', I am biased but I would feel that anyone who receives her professional help, would be treated with great thought and care. She also sings the following song with me.

Islands and Oasis

Child homicides are in the press currently. It is interesting that since the 60s the figues for this crime in the UK has gone from one of the highest, to one of the lowest. Credit should be given to social workers and the police for this, but we don't see much evidence of this credit. Social workers remain our nation's professional scapegoats.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: Morticia
Date: 30 Aug 02 - 04:23 PM

I work in the UK.We don't always get it right either but we are endlessly hampered by negative associations in the media and repetition of stereo typical attitudes that encourage people to see us as the 'enemy'.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: InOBU
Date: 30 Aug 02 - 04:22 PM

PS Schooled away, can also mean, as Native Americans feel, that our graduate degrees give us the huberus to believe our culture is the modern world and modern cultures with ancient roots, non - western cultures are relics of the past.
Cheers, and best of everything,
Larry

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: InOBU
Date: 30 Aug 02 - 03:55 PM

Hi Morticia:
The first question is Travellers here in the US, or in Ireland or England. I have worked with Pavees in the US, and Vlax Roma. The standards used to judge the "norms" of a home in the US are completely and fully inapropriate to Vlax culture. The family courts in the US refuse to understand (so far as almost NO child custody cases have come to the family courts here, they go to the Romani Kris) - as I was saying, refuse to look at the scholarly evidence that the grandparents are an important funcitonal part of the child rearing equation. Now, I hope, as things proceed, things will change. BUT, I am not opporating on steriotypes, I have lectured at the Columbia Graduate School of Social Work, as a guest, BECAUSE some social workers acknowlege that their education does not include understanding of the complete separatness of "Gypsy" life. A quote from a leading sociolgist on the subject, who I wont name with out asking her... (I will ask, in the next few days...) is "as social scientists we are supposed to approach other cultures with care, that seems to go out the window when social workers are deeling with Roma."
You seem to be approaching things with the right spirit, and I would actualy like to see greater partnership with Romani governmental institutions (very complex and formal among Vlax Roma) to someday see real schooling for American Roma. But in order to get there, I believe we need the degree of formal recognition now extended to American natives.
Devlessa,
Larry

Subject: RE: LYR ADD: The Social Worker & the 'Gypsy'
From: Morticia
Date: 30 Aug 02 - 03:05 PM

Actually Larry, as a social worker who worked for a long time with traveller families, neither I nor my colleagues wanted anything of the sort.I was keen that the kids attended school when they could and that they were healthy and happy.I had no agenda about their lifestyle beyond that and it applied to ALL the kids I worked with.

These stereotypes sure don't help my work much

Subject: Lyr Add: THE GYJEE FROM THE STATE
From: InOBU
Date: 30 Aug 02 - 01:17 PM

Words Lorcan Otway tune Kanak Szomasz as sung by Ando Drom
All rights reserved.
THE GYJEE FROM THE STATE

Moma what is this Gyjee (1) doing in our home with her pad
What more do they want from us than already they've had

Isn't life bitter enough for us, just the trouble life brings
No matter what you plan, with the honey you get the stings

Life was hard with a new Bori, (2) life is bitter and sweet
As long as Roma have been, there has been chaff with wheat.

Yes we fought, yes we parted, but this is how life is for all
We Roma, are no better or worse we trip, sometimes we fall

Moma, what more do the gyjen (3) want, they want the air we breath
They want to settle, be like them, then they force us to leave

Why do they want us to be like them, they seem to be deelay (4)
We don't wind up in mental homes, or lock our elder folk away

They want our children to be like theirs, their way is the only way
They want there to be no more Roma, to school us all away

1. Non Roma (Fem. Pl.) 2. Bride 3. Non- Roma (pl.) 4. crazy (pl.)