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BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets?
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Midchuck Date: 03 Dec 02 - 01:15 PM If the sound of guns going off on Thanksgiving day upsets you, stay out of Vermont, whatever you do. Our deer season runs through the Thanksgiving weekend, and you hear shots off in the woods on a fairly regular basis. Music content: Da Yoopers' "Second Week of Deer Camp" is about the U. P. of Michigan, but it was an enormous hit in Vermont when it first came out. Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: PeteBoom Date: 03 Dec 02 - 12:41 PM Didn't see this thread until now... Hey Mr. Happy, How's it going... In the end, it was nothing much. The part of the city I live in is a little "unusual". We have everything from, well, folks like me and my wife, to the retirees living across the street in the house they've lived in since they were married 50+ years ago, to the young couple trying across the street and down a bit just starting out, and trying to shake their "projects" experiences to the crack (and other drugs) dealers around the corner to the recent immigrants of dubious legal nature behind us and over 1 house. There is a Guatemalan family around the other side who are wonderfully nice people, and a family moved up from Brownsville, Texas, who speak English as a second language. The Guatemalans and Texans get on quite well together, and with us. My wife lived in Texas for a while and it often have "dueling fajita smells" during the summer. (We usually come in 3rd place, but it still tastes pretty good!) For some reason, these two folks decided it would be great fun to light off several strings of firecrackers and other fireworks left over from this summer. The other folks (of dubious legal status - we still have not figured out where they are from) behind us heard this and fired a small calibre hand-gun - mostly in the air, we asked them nicely to knock it off, one of them decided that one more wouldn't hurt, that one hit the peak of the house, striking the siding of the attic - I was sitting one level down in my (home) office. No serious damage done (120 year old oak beams - gotta love it) and we ranted at them a bit, they apologized and proceeded to yell at the guy that fired the last shot. Its been quiet ever since... Cheers - Pete |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: GUEST Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:55 AM There are a number of "psyche's " in North America, they are not all American. I wish it were possible to teach Geography to the English. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Rapparee Date: 02 Dec 02 - 12:42 PM I wasn't going to post anymore to this thread, but Gareth story about the RN reminded me.... It was up at Camp McCoy, Wisconsin, in the middle '60s. The National Guard was out playing war games, shooting off flares and star clusters and TNT blocks and artillery simulatros and blanks and just having one helluva good time. "Never, ever," said The Word, "shoot a flare at less than a 45 degree angle! Never!" And so, we move from the field to the area with barracks and real buildings, and someone (who was never discovered, but it wasn't me) apparently wondered just how far a flar would shoot if it were fired horizontal to the ground. Whoever it was burned down the Officers' Club.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: GUEST,Taliesn Date: 02 Dec 02 - 11:21 AM (quote) "Funny to hear of culturally superior Americans behaving like them pesky Ayrabs in Afghanistan and Palestine." Oh here we go again. Seeing as how most multigeneration ancestral Americans are from Europe it's a sign of evolution that "more" semi-ignorant jerks express themselves with firearms as their "far less policed" forebears. Ofcourse Euros were given full license to wield weapons in "the colonies-to-be" for centuries and some liked that power over life and death so much they stayed. Dressing up the act of "dueling" doth not make the act anymore "cultured". BTW: Aren't the "French" the traditionally held as the ones whom have always considered themselves culturally superior? ;-) The natives in French Indochine might have an opinion on that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Dec 02 - 10:07 AM
No one on this list is claiming superiority. People here in the US can and often do things as thoughtless and inconsiderate as individuals anywhere else in the world, despite having ample opportunity to know better. (Look at the current occupancy of the White House for a great example of this!) Firing off weapons on holidays is all too common in Texas. I don't know where Jeri lives--but when we lived for a few years in Temple, north of Austin, we always heard gunshots on the holidays. Of course, it was also a county known for its lack of educational achievement (50 percent high school dropout rate, for example). I couldn't get out of there fast enough once we had a child--the prospect of role models outside the home was pretty grim. But in Fort Worth we live on the southern outskirts (at least, it was an outskirt when we moved here!) we also heard occasional shots fired at midnight. Not so often now. I grew up north of Seattle and never heard gunshots on any occasion, except for when I was learning to shoot at the rifle range, or when Dad took us out to a beach at the bottom of a bluff for target practice. It seems to me to be a regional thing, diluted as people move around and take their expectations and practices with them. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Gareth Date: 01 Dec 02 - 06:26 PM Which takes me back a year or 20, to the days when the Royal Navy were still base at Chatham (Kent) As the Old year retired, and the New Year came in, as is traditional Ships sirens sounded, bells were rung, and the duty Destroyer would put a couple of "Star Shell" over the Medway - ( The skill was to time it so that the "Star Shell" burst excactly on Midnight.) Fast forward to a few years ago. I was acting as duty B'osun for the Medway amalgamated Sailing Clubs. Nothing seroius - a tow if required, pick the drunks out of the water at closing time etc. Look for the tealeaves stealing from moored boats. A red (distress) flare is sighted. VHF to Coast Gaurd, and start running the bearing down, cautiously, if thers some poor sod in the water you don't want to give him a haircut with the propellor. It turns out that there was a "party" at the Royal Engineers depot at Upnor. Some stupid chinless wonder had thought it a good idea to play with a Flare Pistol - red flares. Hmmm ! H M Coat Gaurd were not happy, neither were the Police. Stupidity with Firearms is not confined to the US of A. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: GUEST,Walking Eagle Date: 01 Dec 02 - 04:41 PM I agree with all who say that shooting in the air for some kind of celebration is just plain stupid. People would always look to us dumb Cherokee Hillbillies and think we did nonsense such as that all the time. Never had it happen around our place. Was it possible that the shot was a riccochet from a hunter? If so, this person definately was not practicing good range of safety skills. That rule was drilled into me as if someone took a drill to my head and poured the rule in. NEVER shoot unless you have a clear line of sight. It only takes one misstep with firearms to have a possible fatal result. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: fox4zero Date: 30 Nov 02 - 10:05 PM It used to be the custom to fire a SHOT GUN into the air at 12AM New Years Eve in very thinly populated rural parts of the Catskills. There was nothing irresposible about it, small lead shot will do no damage on it's descent, and it was kinda nice to hear the scattered salute on that winter night. Shot guns and 30-30's were part of life at that time. Larry Parish |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Rapparee Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:17 PM Mr. H, I own firearms, both cartridge and black powder. When I was twelve, my mother *insisted* that I learn to shoot (also my brothers and sister). She sent me, and the rest, to a local rifle range where we were instructed in safety. We had a total of nine hours of safety lectures before we were even given rudimentary instruction in sighting in, trigger control, and so forth. And safety was drilled into us whenever and whereever we were on the range (yes, even in the bathrooms, and I don't mean signs that read "Please aim"). This was more safety instruction than I received in the Army. Moreover, what was drilled into us was a sense of responsibility: we, and no one else, not society, not our ancestors, not our descendants, we and we alone were responsible for our actions with a gun. My firearms are stored seperate from any ammunition, with trigger locks. And they are stored in a place where it would be difficult to get them. I take them out only to shoot them; when I finish I clean them and return them to storage. Anything less would be irresponsible. What shooting I do is limited to either a range or, in the past, to hunting. While I have a permit to carry a concealed deadly weapon (which includes brass knuckles, switchblade knives, throwing stars, and other such non-firearm weapons), I don't. I got it because I wanted to refresh myself on the applicable laws, safety, and so forth -- and I spent twelve classroom hours and four hours on the range; six weeks later I received my certificate, and six weeks after that the permit was mailed to the local sheriff's office, where I had to sign for it when I picked it up (and show identification and the notice I received that it was in). If some fool fires off a gun to celebrate anything, s/he should be taken up for, at least, reckless endangerment. No, I never experienced this when I was growing up. Perhaps it was because the Depression lingered on there, and we used guns to supply meat for the table, just as we used whatever fish we caught. I'll say no more about this, as I don't want to get involved in a debate on gun control, the Second Amendment, or anything else of that sort, and I'll post nothing further to this thread for the same reason. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Haruo Date: 29 Nov 02 - 10:32 PM Mr. Happy, I apologize if my post in this thread seemed appallingly flippant. Responsible gun ownership is certainly preferable to irresponsible gun ownership, and sober gun ownership to inebriated gun ownership. I don't own a gun, and haven't fired one since I was in Scouts. I live in a part of Seattle where gunfire is not a frequent occurrence, indeed, I don't recall ever having heard anyone shooting a gun hereabouts (though detonation of fairly large, dangerous firecrackers is common, particularly around New Year's and, especially, the 4th of July). However, in your initial post you wrote "guns should all be done away with- their only purpose is to hurt people", and I must differ with you on that point. They serve many other purposes as well, including hurting other animals, making loud putatively festive noises, and keeping the authorities nervous about the populace. Haruo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Date: 29 Nov 02 - 04:20 PM Funny to hear of culturally superior Americans behaving like them pesky Ayrabs in Afghanistan and Palestine. I reckon Pete Boom is lucky that he doesn't live in Afghanistan or he might just get the crap bombed out of him by the USAF and be written off as collateral damage. Going to see Bowling for Columbine tomorrow... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: katlaughing Date: 29 Nov 02 - 12:42 PM I certainly don't condone such, either. However, I don't think the police, in our town, cared as much as they should have. It seemed they had a sort of "boys will be boys" attitude. On the other hand, when a bunch of drunks shot just past the back of my car as they passed me, the cops were quick to meet me at my house and take a serious report. They were really attentive, though they were not able to find whomever it was. The idiots had done the same thing to others a couple of other times during the same week. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: DougR Date: 29 Nov 02 - 12:38 PM Mr. Happy: I don't know how you reached that conclusion. I certainly don't condone that behaviour as I noted in my first post. It is not an uncommon occurance though. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Mr Happy Date: 29 Nov 02 - 10:57 AM fresh |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Mr Happy Date: 29 Nov 02 - 04:34 AM i'm astonished!! i just can't comprehend the flippancy of some of the responses to this issue. do some of you out there believe its ok to shoot off firearms indiscriminately? & if someone gets hurt or killed it just too bad? they were just unlucky? am i right in assuming from the general flavour of responses that this is a cultural norm so ingrained in the north american psyche that even the police & authorities turn a blind eye to this 'just some guys jerking off!'? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: DougR Date: 28 Nov 02 - 10:58 PM Ebbie: your welcome. :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Haruo Date: 28 Nov 02 - 10:09 PM New Year's Eve is one thing (or two things, Gregorian and Chinese), but Thanksgiving. The only reason I can think of to shoot a gun off on Thanksgiving would be turkey hunting, and that should be done earlier in the week because if you do it on Thursday the bird won't have time to thaw out. Haruo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: MAV Date: 28 Nov 02 - 10:03 PM what goes up, must come down
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Ebbie Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:17 PM In Oregon, when I lived in the country, I often heard rifles going off at midnight of New Year's Eve, and hated it. I don't remember ever hearing of anyone being underneath when it came down, however. Mostly what I feared - besides the effect on my dogs- was that inevitably the people shooting them off were also drinking. "It is an example of stupidity that causes people to cry out for a band on owning firearms" Glad to see you brought music into this thread, DougR! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Phil Cooper Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:10 PM Some friends in a Christmas band we used to play with had neighbors who thought firing a .357 mag in the air on new year's eve was fine. This was in the Rogers Park neighborhood in Chicago. The cops were there in seconds. I don't think anything else was done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Neighmond Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:08 PM It's sorry jackasses like that that give responcible gun owners bad names. I dont hold a barrel to anything i wouldn't kill. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: artbrooks Date: 28 Nov 02 - 11:28 AM I lived in Erie, Pennsylvania sever years ago. They have, or had at that time, a New Years celebration that involved fireworks at midnight. Some idiot decided to join in by firing his handgun off into the air. The bullet hit a girl (15 years old, I think) in the top of her head and killed her. I was standing about 20 feet away, and knew nothing about it until I saw the news the next day. When he was finally located, the shooter expressed remorse, but didn't really see anything wrong with the initial act of firing a weapon into the air. Moron. |
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Subject: RE: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Amos Date: 28 Nov 02 - 11:18 AM Well, do the math, guys. Say a forty degree elevation and a final altitude at the top of the parabola of, what -- five hundred meters? Depends on the ammo, I guess. A slug weighing what, four grams? Ten? The gravitational force is still a good old-fashioned 9.6 meters-per-second per second. When it lands, deformed or not, it will penetrate skulls and tissue to a significant distance, I reckon. Assuming someone is under it when it comes down. A |
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Subject: RE: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: mack/misophist Date: 28 Nov 02 - 11:06 AM Shooting guns in the air is common enough in northern California. When I was a boy it was common in Texas. Some people seem to think that if you fire into the dirt, the bullet will hit a rock, riccochet, and kill some one but if you fire up, it'll never come down. For the record, I was once hit by a riccochet, a badly deformed bullet won't penetrate far. If there's no jacket, it'll probably shatter, which is what happened to me. |
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Subject: RE: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Bluesmike Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:57 PM Thats what you get when you have the 'right to arm bears'. Michael |
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Subject: RE: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:54 PM Hey Rapaire.....I lived in the Commonwealth myself for awhile and went to college there as well.....and yep.....Sure does happen down there sometimes....... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: katlaughing Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:51 PM It happens in Wyoming, quite often. My stupid neighbours did it on New Year's Eve of 2000. No cops ever came either. |
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Subject: RE: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Jeri Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:38 PM Doug, I've never witnessed it or heard of it before either, and I've lived in Texas, Indiana, Virginia, New York and here in New Hampshire. I'd say it is pretty uncommon. |
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Subject: RE: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: DougR Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:24 PM Rapaire: I dont' know why you haven't been exposed to this before. It is not an uncommon occurance where people shoot their firearms into the air celebrating whatever. They never consider, evidently, that what goes up, must come down. Several people have died as a result of this foolishness. It is an example of stupidity that causes people to cry out for a band on owning firearms. People who do this SHOULD be banned from owning them. People who do this should be locked up! DougR |
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Subject: RE: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Rapparee Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:59 PM I've lived in the US all my life and never heard of celebrating by shooting off bullets at random. And if it was a "hunter" who shot his house...well, I quotationed the word deliberately. If it was such a person, I hope that s/he is caught and gets what my ol' buddy, Judge Hangin' Dave, gave the last such to pass through his court: forfiture of all firearms and gear (including a pickup truck), a fine of USD5,000, banned from hunting for five years, and one thousand hours community service -- as well as paying for the damage (no one was injured, fortunately). At that, the chap was lucky as some of the folks in that part of the world shoot back. Accurately. If you're going to own firearms, you must be responsible for what happens when you pull the trigger. |
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Subject: Thanksgiving:Celebrating with Bullets? From: Mr Happy Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:25 PM 02.15 am uk time was just talking with pete boom in MUDCHAT- but he had to leave abrubtly because he said a bullet had hit his house. he'd heard a gunshot earlier & gone out to check. he said its to do with people celebrating the thanksgiving holiday. celebrating with bullets? i think its truly shocking- guns should all be done away with- their onlypurpose is to hurt people |