BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 12:54 AM

It also takes only one or two government-paid provocateurs throwing one or two objects to cause 500 police to attack and beat up several thousand peaceful protestors. This is a time-honoured technique used by governments to discredit protestors, and permit a forceful "response" by the police or the army. If the protestors won't get violent themselves, someone else does it for them.

I have no idea if such occurred in Oakland, but it does happen.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 06:32 PM

The longshoremen who were lined up at the gate waiting to go to work have said the police attacked the demonstrators without giving any warning. Some longshoremen I heard interviewed on NPR yesterday also said the demonstrators hadn't done anything to provoke the police.

A number of the longshoremen were shot in the melee, apparently. This is from today's LA Times:

"Steve Stallone, spokesman for the longshoremen's union, said protesters did not provoke the police response. "It was a completely nonviolent demonstration," Stallone said, though he acknowledged that after the police barrage of bullets, a few demonstrators tossed rocks at officers.

Calling officers' responses "reckless and stupid," Oakland School Board member Dan Siegel, a lifelong veteran of demonstrations, said the police "were far [more] violent than they needed to be."

Siegel's law partner, City Councilwoman Jane Brunner, joined the demonstrators in front of the federal building in downtown Oakland. "It's important that our police react to demonstrators calmly," she said. "I think they overreacted."

Oakland Deputy Police Chief Patrick Haw and Mayor Jerry Brown defended the police action, but others said they believed it was excessive. Vice Mayor Nancy Nadel called for an investigation into the officers' actions."

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 06:07 PM

Actually, Africa does have oil. Quite a bit of it, in fact. Hence the interest of Shell Oil in Nigeria, for one.

West Africa already supplies about 15% of U.S. crude oil imports. US interest in the region includes the large offshore oil deposits in the Gulf of Guinea. The US continually denies persistent reports that it intends to build a military base on the tiny west African island state of Sao Tome, which lies just off the west African coast midway between the big oil producers Nigeria and Angola.

Of course, the 60 billion barrels of proven oil reserves in the Gulf of Guinea isn't as large as Saudi Arabia's 250 billion of reserves, but some believe the governments in the region to be more malleable to US influence. Many came to visit during the "Coalition of the Willing" talks prior to the war. Remember how Bush rolled out the White House red carpet for African heads of state in recognition of their work "on behalf of peace"?

And only Nigeria is currently a member of OPEC, so the Bush administration likes the idea of doing more business with them. US oil companies are lobbying Nigeria hard to leave OPEC. Human Rights Watch and other human rights organizations are lobbying hard for the G8 countries and their multi-nationals currently looting the oil regions, to adhere to agreed human rights standards. Right now that seems about as likely to happen as Ken Saro-Wiwa rising from the dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 11:01 AM

MMario-If that was the case, why didn't the police officer mention that objects were being thrown?

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: MMario
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 10:56 AM

Amos - evidently (at least the reports I heard) the dispersal order wasn't given until things were thrown at the cops. Once the demonstrators start throwing things - it is no longer "peaceful assembly"

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 10:53 AM

Kevin, it's not as "alien" as most people would like to believe. Remember Kent State? Or the people injured and property destroyed by the RCMP in Quebec City a couple years ago, when hundreds showed up to protest the agenda of the G8 global "imperialists" during their summit meeting?

No, it's not "alien" enough for comfort. Although it does reminds me of the Klingon Empire ... or maybe the Cardassians.

;)   daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 10:53 AM

Gee, those who don't read history are doomed, etc... Wasn't there a dramatic moment at the very beginning of the American Revolution when the line "Disperse, ye rabble" went down in history? I thought I remembered a passage in the constitution about the right of the people to peaceably assemble...or was that just part of one of my delusions?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 10:43 AM

In case you didn't click that link,here's a quote: "Danielle Ashford, a spokeswoman for Oakland police, said a warning had been given to demonstrators before rounds were fired. 'We gave our dispersal order. We gave them ample time to disperse. When we give our dispersal order, that's pretty much it.' "

Saddam's spirit lives and rules in California, it appears. Does that count as alien enough?

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 09:22 AM

Maybe this is the sort of thing you might like to be liberated from?

Forty injured as police fire rubber bullets at peace protesters

Peace

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 09:12 AM

:) Great Balls of Fire! You folk are hilarious! Love the song, Charley!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 08:44 AM

Just to keep this thread rolling along:

D7-----------G
For they were large balls,
D---------------G
Balls as heavy as lead,
G
With a hell of a twist of his muscular wrist,
----------------------------D7
He'd sling 'em right over his head!
--------------G
For they were large balls,
D7--------------G
Balls as heavy as lead!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 08:32 AM

A world without balls..... well, considering the Democrats in the U.S. Congress we're off to a good start.

Best, Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 01:03 AM

Those African countries don't have oil, and they are not located in a vitally central strategic location with oil all around it, and direct routes to the Caspian oil region (up for grabs since the Soviet Union broke up).

Bingo!

It is indeed empire-building, masquerading as liberation.

But I like the way this alien thread is going! Daylia proposes a World without balls. Interesting concept. Hockey would assume the premier sports position in such a World, and Canada would become the most influential country on the globe! This would be a dramatic change, and is worth considering...although it's lonely at the top!

As for the aliens, my understanding is that they come from a whole bunch of different planets, which complicates the discussion considerably. It's sort of like the U.N., only much more democratic in nature (no Security Council).

Where balls fit into that, however, I don't know...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 07:47 PM

I can't agree that the Europeans who came and conquered the Americas had good intentions.

In terms of the "righteousness" of the current war against Saddam--an estimated 2.5 million people have been slaughtered in the last five years in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Saddam hasn't come close to that level of slaughter in his entire 35 years of rule, even when you take the nearly one million killed in the Iran Iraq war into account.

Yet, there isn't a single African nation on the list of the Bush administration's "evil" countries harboring "terrorists" and "weapons of mass destruction".

The majority of those killed in the Congo have been killed without any weapons of mass destruction whatsoever--starvation, machetes and rifles--and all the victims and assailants in close, intimate contact.

OTOH, the US bombing is incredibly "clean" by comparison, isn't it? And the Iraqi casualties are much, much fewer than many had originally thought would result from the bombing.

It isn't the bombing that kills the most people. Urban fighting, in close quarters and proximity, is where the casualties can become obscene. I'm fiercely opposed to this war. But I feel there is a certain disingenuousness about it, especially when the talk turns to the number of deaths. I wish the anti-war movement could be more honest about what it is that truly disturbs us about the Bush doctrine. It isn't the efficiency of war technology, which IS making warfare more humane. It is the taint of bloody empire on all our hands that we dislike.

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 07:34 PM

I've never thought of Leonard Cohen as the most optimistic of souls before...

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 07:29 PM

Who can say it better?:

Democracy

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 05:48 PM

Well, the last time technologically advanced aliens landed on what was to become America, with a "civilising mission", it didn't work out too well for the native inhabitants at all, did it?

Which, I imagine, is the implication of the piece that started this thread.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 05:37 PM

Well, the last time technologically advanced aliens landed on what was to become America, with a "civilising mission", it didn't work oput too well for the native inhabitants at all did it?

Which imagine is the implication of the piece that started this thread.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: JedMarum
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 09:42 AM

Who Will Liberate the US?

the voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: *daylia*
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 09:27 AM

JtS, could you link us to that "blueprint for a New Alien Century? Are they content with "enforcing Alien interests and principles", or are they going to "enforce peace" on us as well? I just gotta know!

I like the concept of equal pay for women, but I'm going to send them a petition re equal play for women as well. Again, they will probably decide that the best way to have equal play for women is to reduce men's play. So they'll probably start by removing every one of the world's balls, and making the production of more balls illegal.

A world with no balls! Unthinkable, isn't it!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 05:09 AM

They wlll probably decide that the best way to have equal pay for women is to reduce men's pay.

For the working stiffs, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 02:44 AM

I think the way the aliens introduce themselves would have a bearing on thier reception. How about if they got a UN mandate to kick the US out of Iraq? If they only allowed Americans to trade their food for oil? If they banned Hummers and 200 horsepower bass boats as weapons of mass consumption? If they propped up regimes in Canada and Europe while condemning the same type of government here. I'd have to read the bluebrint for a new Alien Century. Would there be protests on their planet? Which side would Martin Sheen be on? What resouces would the Aliens be trying to control? Action movies? Reality TV?
Would oil be traded in their currency? Would Halliburton get the contract to rebuild?

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Kaleea
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 02:29 AM

Gee, I sure hope that someday somebody liberates us from such things as hairiness, not too healthyness, & other stuff. Hate to have to be the bearer of unhappy news, but--the aliens came, looked around, and since they could find no intelligent life on earth, they left!

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 10:09 PM

Damn Charlie! You haven't even reached NYC and you are already spouting all sorts of Liberal stuff. Hope Brett can keep you in check. At this rate you will turn your banjo in for a yellow ribbon.

Will those aliens allow women to earn equal pay?????

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 08:48 PM

Daylia-

Them elephants were really scary!

Charley Noble, some of whom's best friends are aliens

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 12:55 PM

Get out, leprechaun, you paranoid alarm-raiser... :-) You've obviously been watching way too many crummy Hollywood movies, like that idiotic movie "Signs" that came out recently. If they wanted to take us over, they could've done it long ago.

Whaddya mean "white flags"? Instead, how about a big sign on the roof saying "Welcome! Stop by anytime for hot cider and a chat about the oddities of Earth! Oh, and watch our for our goverment guys and military people. They're nuts."

p.s. One of my best friends is retired O.P.P. (Ontario Provincial Police)...a great guy. We disagree on politics, and agree on everything else. Typical.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 12:37 PM

Aliens, you say? Some believe it's been done before, but it didn't really
work out too well.

:)    daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 11:46 AM

Geez! This thread is getting really scary. I hope it doesn't unravel into the wrong hands.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: leprechaun
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 06:24 PM

I hate those aliens already and I've never even met them. If I can figure out a way, I'm going to transport myself to their planet and kill as many of them as I can by whatever primitive means I have at my disposal. And to keep this analogy consistent, I expect our government to heap rewards on my family if I die while terrorizing those stinking infidel aliens. And if I see any of you sons of bitches raising any white flags, I'll kill you too.

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 09:18 AM

The original posting is from a member of a political street theatre group that was based in Lansing, Michigan, around 1970, called the Street Corner Society. One of my housemates was a member and keeps me up to date with their commentary.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 09:06 AM

REGIME CHANGE BEGINS AT HOME !

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 04:09 AM

I love it, Charley!!

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:42 AM

Rapture.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 08:54 PM

Hell, I've been hoping for that to happen for decades now! I'm afraid, though, that they feel we must be left to make our own decisions and our own mistakes on this planet, although they're not willing to let us put nukes into space. They appear to have more faith in us than many of us do, specially those at the top.

Prime directive: Don't interfere in developing civilizations, until they venture out into space in a dangerous manner.

- LH

Subject: BS: Who Will Liberate the US? Aliens?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:57 PM

Can't resist posted this one that showed up today:

"I want to be liberated just like the Iraquis.

I am waiting for a race of technically superior aliens to land in this
country. They will look sort of like us, but will be much paler, more
hairless, they will have better health, nutrition and cleaner personal habits than most Americans. They will have different customs than ours and there will be many miscommunications due to their advanced polyglot language. They will announce that they have come to liberate us from our corrupt governmental regime and the oppression imposed upon our society by religious fundamentalists.

I know many of my fellow Americans will rebel against the aliens. They will argue that we have a strong government, democratically elected. They will argue that we are a Christian nation and that we should be willing to martyr ourselves if necessary for our moral Christian values.

The aliens will gently point out that our current regime was not popularly elected. They will point to the fact that ninety percent of the wealth of our country is controlled by less than ten percent of the population, greedy men who rape our natural resources for their own benefit while our poor go hungry and homeless on the streets. They will be able to show us how other planets have slowly destroyed themselves through ecological imbalance and global warming. They will have countless examples of our 'elected' leader's lies and disinformation. They will point to our country's weapons of mass destruction which our leaders eagerly use to protect their financial interests around the
world. They will also condemn our judicial and penal systems as antiquated and barbaric citing numerous examples of racial and economic discrimination and our inhumane implementation of the death penalty.

The aliens also have a hard time understanding our mistreatment of women. They don't understand why our 'Christian' values prohibit women from becoming clergy, why women aren't paid equal wages and why so many Christians believe women should not be allowed to choose whether or not they wish to carry a pregnancy to full term - why we don't even want to give our women governance over their own bodies! They don't understand why adequate health care is reserved for only those who can afford to pay outrageous sums of money. They don't understand why 'moral superiority' causes us to withhold adequate pain medication from the seriously ill or why our laws prohibit a painless and dignified passing for our mortally ill. The aliens will offer us cures for many of our most serious diseases. Will we reject these cures because they were discovered through stem cell research? Or will they be rejected by the
FDA because they are not the intellectual property of their own
pharmeceutical lobbyists?

The aliens will offer us incontrovertible proof of our evolution of the
species, they've been watching us for a long time and they have videos. They will sadly shake their heads when we continue to insist no student can view these tapes without also being forced to read the book of Genisis.

When this alien race arrives, I have no doubt our current regime will refuse to step down. They will hide in their tunnels and bunkers and fight the aliens with every weapon at their disposal. Our religious leaders will rail against these 'satanic' invaders and call for us to martyr ourselves in a crusade to protect our Christian values.

But some of us will wave white flags and clumsily try to mouth the alien equivalent of "Welcome, welcome, thank you, thank you." After all, if we can justify liberating Iraq we should be willing to accept the same liberation ourselves."

Have a nice day!
Charley Noble