public domain music

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 10:00 PM

Well, Q, I looked at the U.S. site you recommended. It is a good one.

However, until the day someone develops software that lets us search for a melody, it will be impossible to determine accurately whether a tune is copywrited or not.

As for determining whether the arrangement is copywrited or not, I don't think it will ever be something that a person can pin down. Fortunately, folkies are adept at generating so many permutations on a set of chords, that I don't think it's an important question.

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 04:09 PM

All of this has appeared in previous threads, including references and/or links to the revised rules.

The U. S. rules are given in brief on the Library of Congress United States Copyright Office website: COPYRIGHT

Do not take top-of-the-head opinions from anyone.
I will not give an answer, because in many cases, legal advice and/or confirmation from copyright holders is required.
See, under 'Frequently Asked Questions' in the above link, the 95 year (120 year from date of creation- anonymous or created for hire, etc.) in addition to the life of author plus 70 years for newer works after 1978. The 1923 date is no longer valid for works renewed or affected by other factors.

There are links to the Government circulars in the paragraph on Frequently Asked Questions in the above link that will provide further information.

Nigel, a mess everywhere. It affects what cds I can buy, because licensing and copyright agreements make importation of certain disks illegal as well. Luckily, many dealers ignore the rules.

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 02:17 PM

Just to add to Q's comment "What you are asking for, an accurate, comprehensive listing, would require research on a large scale if 20th century music after ca. 1910 (1923 is no longer a valid cut-off for some renewed material) is involved. " I might add that even 1910 is not a reliable cut of point here in UK. Copyright is held by the composer(or his asignees) for life(of the composer)+ 70 years. A song may have been written in 1900 by a fifteen year old who died in 1970. Copyright will remain with his estate or his asignees until 2040.

Nigel

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: treewind
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 02:05 PM

Saulgold - in the UK that would be covered by the Performing Right Society. Regardless of whether you are paid or not, in some venues you might be required to fill in a PRS form in which you list (to the best of your knowledge) the names and authors of works you have performed. This is returned to the PRS and in theory the results are accumulated and money distributed to the authors. You don't have to pay anything but venues big enough to be noticed have to ay the PRS an annual fee if there is likely to be eligible material preformed there.

If you are outside the UK, I don't know what happens...

Anahata

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: saulgoldie
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 10:22 AM

You know, even though I do not get paid for any of my performances, it has occured to me to that I might could should wonder about copyright use of some of the songs I play. I play exclusively at retirement homes for no pay, open mics for twice that, and once inawhile a school function, again for no pay and usually the event is a fundraiser. I might be adding some sessions in the local public schools, again for no pay. What should I do to make sure I am not hurting anyone? Or if I should play at some beans or books venue and somehow have money forced on me, what is the proper procedure to handle this issue?

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 03 - 04:18 PM

Orignal poster,

If you'd explain why you need PD tunes, you'd probably get better advice.

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 03 - 03:42 PM

There's a mailing list for discussing where to locate public domain music and some of the Open Source software available to play it on computers. It's at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pdsongs

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: masato sakurai
Date: 29 Aug 03 - 09:49 PM

The Lester S. Levy Sheet Music Collection: "An image of the cover and each page of music will also be retrieved if the music was published before 1923 and is in the public domain."

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: SeanM
Date: 29 Aug 03 - 06:37 PM

The problem with copyright is that it's a great big "He said, she said' game from hell.

For material in the PD, the lyrics may be 100% public - but by writing a new (or even just mostly new) arrangement, you then have the right to copyright the arrangement. This is where it gets sticky - as noted, HFA and other hounds of heck don't normally bother to sort out what's PD, and what's not. It's much easier and more profitable to threaten everyone and get money from scared musicians who can't afford counsel whether HFA's entitled to payment or not.

M

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Aug 03 - 04:37 PM

The Great Tune Thread is a useful listing, but not all the tunes are in the Public Domain. A quick glance spotted several, including "The Ballad of the Green Berets" (Sadler and Moore).
Even www.pdinfo.com has a disclaimer; the recent changes by Congress have muddied the waters.

Of course you are safe with anything in the Bodleian Library website or Bruce Olson's website, American Memory, pdmusic.org and nearly all of Contemplator- as long as you steer clear of specific arrangements (even of Greensleeves and esp. Scarborough Fair) that have been copyyrighted.

What you are asking for, an accurate, comprehensive listing, would require research on a large scale if 20th century music after ca. 1910 (1923 is no longer a valid cut-off for some renewed material) is involved. You might look up some of the threads on copyright here in this website.

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Aug 03 - 03:55 PM

It's still a bit of a minefield. Don't assume, because a traditional song may be PD in some forms, that it is always so; many versions may have been first published relatively recently and be, in those forms, in copyright. In practice nobody who actually does have a direct interest is likely to chase you, but it is no bad thing to do the research so that you know where you are. Organisations like the Harry Fox agency and the Performing Rights Society tend to assume that, if a song has the same title as something they have on their books, that it must be the same song, and that you owe them money. On the other hand, it's also true that quite a lot of songs widely thought to be old and traditional are nothing of the kind; sometimes Fox and PRS are in the right.

Subject: RE: public domain music
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 03 - 03:03 PM

There's always the digital tradition.   see "the great tune hunt" thread....Great tune hunt permathread

Subject: public domain music
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 03 - 02:34 PM

Found the information at http://www.pdinfo.com on public domain music very interesting. Was wondering if there were any groups/projects/web sites involved in trying to make public domain music more easily accessible for anyone. Am personally interested in pd music such as Greensleeves or Scarborough Fair, but would be interested to hear about any projects in the works to help make pd music more accessible (especially if they need volunteers).

Thanks.