Has your digital piano ever done THIS???

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 May 04 - 05:15 PM

There seems to be increasing need for the old "bit bucket*." Although considered obsolete by many, the fine old tradition of keeping one handy beside the computer may require revivial.

The New Hacker's Dictionary, 2d ed., Eric C Raymond, MIT Press,©1993, ISBN 0-262-68079-3, page 64:

bit bucket n. 1. The universal data sink (originally, the mythical receptacle used to catch bits when they fall off the end of a register during a shift instruction). Discarded, lost, or destroyed data is said to have "gone to the bit bucket." On UNIX, often used for /dev/null. Sometimes amplified as the Great Bit Bucket In the Sky. 2. The place where all lost mail and news messages eventually go. The selection is perfromed according to Finagle's Law: important mail is much more likely to end up in the bit bucket than junk mail, which has an almost 100% probability of getting delivered. Routing to the bit bucket is automatically performed by mail-transfer agents, news systems, and the lower layers of the network. 3. The ideal location for all unwanted mail responses: "Flames to this article to the bit bucket." Such a request is guaranteed to overflow one's mailbox with flames. 4. Excuse for all mail that has not been sent. "I mailed you those figures last week; they must have landed in the bit bucket."
...
A variant of this legend has had it that, as a consequence of the 'parity preservation law,' the number of 1 bits that go to the bit bucket must equal the number of 0 bits. Any imbalance results in bits filling up the bit bucket. A qualified computer technician can empty a full bit bucket as part of scheduled maintenance.

Many computer errors appear to be caused by overflow of a too-full bit bucket.

John

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 May 04 - 01:14 PM

--trying to "figure it out" is the first step on the road to madness-

Oh don't I just know it ....

the old direction, "re-boot and proceed" still applies--

Consider it done! Thanks, M Ted!

Any other approach might just stir up those "juvenile delinquent bits cruising in the data stream" again (:-D thanks for that again John!) ... and I'd rather not risk putting the ole ticker through another shocker like the one on Tuesday.

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 May 04 - 11:17 AM

The are many possible explanations, which is a way of saying that there are no real explanations--this stuff just happens--trying to "figure it out" is the first step on the road to madness--the old direction, "re-boot and proceed" still applies--

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 May 04 - 08:09 AM

Oooooo Lin you devil - I cast that idea out, forthwith!

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 20 May 04 - 11:35 PM

...And then again, maybe you should stock up on holy water...

Lin

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: *daylia*
Date: 20 May 04 - 08:45 PM

:-)   John, I just knew I couldn't come to a better place for "nice logical hi-tech explanation", thanks to amazing Catters like you! It's going to take me a bit to digest all the various possibilities you've so kindly taken the time to explain -- thank you very much!   

And hey, it's just good to know there ARE so many explanations *whew*

I thought it might have had something to do with "building up the crescendo", that maybe those big chords had overloaded the circuits somehow. But I've played that piano just as loudly countless times before without any problems ... and it doesn't explain what happened to that recording several years ago either.

The difference back then was that the mysterious sounds didn't even present themselves until the next day. It's impossible to dub ANY sounds in over something already recorded on that piano -- if you press REC and play even one note, it erases everything you've recorded before. You certainly can't "insert" new sounds in the middle of a recording, or cause the recording to fade in and out the way it did that morning.   That's why my kids were so freaked (well, me too) ... they were into computers in a big way even back then, and KNEW that what they were hearing was simply impossible.   Weird!

One thing's for sure - I'm not going to be shaking the thing any time soon to check for loose wires. They call it a "portable piano"? Ha! Portable for a couple gorillas maybe ...

At any rate, with all those possibilities in mind I won't be losing any sleep over it. Unless it happens again, in which case further research will DEFINITELY be indicated.

Thanks so much again,

daylia

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: Amos
Date: 20 May 04 - 01:00 PM

John:

A hilarious post!! Thanks!!

A

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 May 04 - 12:23 PM

The "All Notes Off" button is an important feature of nearly all MIDI based hardware and software, simply because things like what happened to you do happen. When you press a key, it doesn't "play a note," it sends the instruction to turn on that note to the MIDI output device(s). When you release the key, it sends the instruction to turn off that note. Other instructions tell the output to change volume and/or voice, etc. All of the instructins get from the input to the output as strings of little bits, ones and zeros.

It's sort of the nature of ones and zeros to sometimes not get to the other end of the wire. If an entire "end note x" doesn't get there, you get the famous "forever note" that won't stop. If one or two of the ones or zeros "change their personality" on the way through the wire, the instruction that's intended may arrive at the output device as an entirely different kind of instruction. (Make me real loud, perhaps?).

In many cases, yours probably included, it's difficult to find where the "errant command(s)" came from. It's about as practical to assume that some fat zeros got stuck in the wire as to look for a "more technical" answer. (Jaggy ones, with sharp edges that hang up are another possibility. You could also presume that the ones and zeros may have formed rival street gangs and are refusing to conform to conventional ethics, if you that suits you.)

If you insist on looking for a "practical" answer the likely suspects would be an interruption of power, interruption of the signal path, or an erratic input device.

Assuming that you were using ac power, a little bump to a "weak" cord could cause a momentary drop or surge, or could shake a connector that's not making solid contact. The ground wire, whether separate or just the neutral side of a 2-wire is a critical part of the power circuit. You could also have an internal "loose wire." You might find any weaknesses here by fairly vigorously shaking the wiring while someone plays the keyboard. (That includes shaking the keyboard, if you want to look for internals.)

If you were on battery power, of course check that the batteries are fresh. A weak set may "play" ok, but drop the voltage under the demand of writing a new recording, which could explain not overwriting something previously recorded.

You could also look at the ac power "source." For some sources, the refrigerator in the next room can cause fairly large "voltage surges."

The same investigative "shake" may find a weak connection in the internal or external signal cabling.

If your keyboard has a "volume control," it may be a suspect in the "input devices" category. Most are potentiometer types of devices, and leaving one set at the same level for very long periods may allow "crud" (the technical name for it) to accumulate adjacent to the wiper contact. When this happens, a very slight movement of the "knob" may cause an erratic, and sometimes rather large jump in level. If the wiper contact is "loose," it may sometimes move "on its own" under slight motions of the keyboard. (As in "building up to the crescendo.") A few full range "wipes" of the knob may clear the wiper path and restore normal function, or may at least reveal a "lumpy adjustment" so you can set the control outside the "bad spot."

Unless the problem reoccurs, I'd dismiss it as a few "juvenile delinquent bits cruising in the data stream."

John

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:52 AM

I don't have a digital piano, but I do use a Roland synthesizer plugged into my computer, and know that they can surprise you sometimes. Computer driven devices often have many functions that we do not use, or even know about--we can accidently trigger them when we hit a button or a combination of buttons without realizing it. Probably just as often, the machine gets a message that it isn't supposed to, or doesn't get one that it is supposed, and gets confused. When this happens, I just hit "All Notes OFF" on the pull down menu--assuming of course, that my screen is not frozen;-)

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: *daylia*
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:40 AM

:-) Sounds like Roger's a first-class act, RtS!

I'm sure I didn't touch those control buttons at all while I was playing though ...

I'm glad to think there's at least a small 'probability' an electrical surge of some kind could have caused it, MMario. Thanks!

Still kinda hoping someone will chime in here with "oh yeah that happens to me all the time, and it's caused by x x x [fill in some nice logical hi-tech explanation]"

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 20 May 04 - 08:24 AM

a static charge either internaly or from an external source COULD have caused this - I'm not sure what the probability is (low though)

Subject: RE: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 20 May 04 - 08:20 AM

I don't know the answer to your question, but that never stops me...Last night I was listening to the Papa George blues band (Sam Kelly on drums and Pete Stroud on bass) with special guest on keyboards, Roger Cotton, who played one solo on "vox humana" (I guess) which sounded like someone scat singing like Slam Stewart. At one point in another number he hit the wrong control and got a dog bark which made all the band jump and then hammed it up pretending to look for the dog!

RtS

Subject: Has your digital piano ever done THIS???
From: *daylia*
Date: 20 May 04 - 08:04 AM

I had a very strange experience with my Roland digital piano on Tuesday. It's still unnerving me a bit.   I was recording a practice session, and half way through it decided to try a piece I haven't played in a few years. I sang it at 14 in the school choir - I remember liking it so much I borrowed the accompanist's sheet music one weekend so I could learn it on the piano. It's a fun, burlesque-style tune from Godspell called Turn Back O Man

The words go ...

Turn back, O Man
Forswear thy foolish ways;
Old now is Earth and none may count Her days ...

Yet thou, Her child
Whose head is crowned in flame;
Still will not hear thine inner God proclaim ....

Turn Back O Man ... Forswear thy foolish ways.

Anyway, I was enjoying the piece and the nostalgia immensely, really getting into the rhythm and singing the words in my head as I played along ... and I was building up the big crescendo toward the climax at the end ... and all of a sudden WHAMMO! It sounded like someone had pounded on the piano, playing exactly the same chord I was but at twice the volume, and on a different piano sound!

Well, I nearly jumped right out of my skin - because as far as I know, that is physically impossible to do on my keyboard! You simply cannot dub in with one sound while recording on another! This happened once before on this piano, many years ago, when some horrible-sounding chords suddenly thundered out in a middle of a recording I'd made the day before. The music I'd recorded faded out -- and then it sounded like someone smashed on the lowest keys on the piano with both fists three times -- and then the music I'd recorded faded in again. Now, we'd listened to that recording after I made it too -- and the mysterious sounds weren't there until the next day. I'll never forget the look on my kid's faces the next morning when we heard it .. all four of us nearly jumped out of our skins.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced this with a digital piano. Could it be some sort of computer "glitch"? Or should I study up on how to exorcise a digital piano?

;-)   (I think ...)

daylia