trad music in songs

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 08:38 AM

You're right, this could be a huge project, and going back much further than you anticipate. Might be worth having a good look about to see how much of it has already been done. I just looked up two at random ( well, I was dancing them/to them last night ), and got to this.

"The lea rig"
Song by Robert Burns, set to an old Scots air, with associated dance, that predate the song. Contempary with early Playford, but not recorded there.
Irrelevant bit( I know from various dancing friends thats in one of the muesems that visitors always seem to end here in Edinburgh has a video with a set dancing the Lea Rig on it, as the tune gets stuck in their head, so I've heard this story enough times to believe it, and it's put down as historical, probably 17 cent.)

james

"The rakes of Mallow"

Song and tune recorded in a variety of sources in period 1740-1790.
I've heard the tune turn up as reels of various lenghts, plus in a millitary collection as part of a 'set of jigs'

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: Grab
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 12:21 PM

Mick, in quite a few cases it'll be the other way round. Whilst the Victorians loved writing words to perfectly good songs, meantime some songs survived only as tunes without words, presumably bcos instrumentalists would play instrumental arrangements of songs (as they still do) and maybe some other musician only ever heard the instrumental version.

Re Rocky Road, a friend and I used to do that, with him playing fiddle and me singing. Nominally it's slip-jig time (9/8); however there are two places where the song reverts to 6/8 time and the fiddler has to delete the triplets in those places if you want to do the song and tune together. I can't remember exactly where - I'd need to sing it and I'm in work right now ;) - but you get the idea. It works very well actually, bcos you've got the fiddle doing stuff which is similar but not identical to the song, and then the verse stops while the fiddle carries on with a solo bit and the singer gets their breath back!

Graham.

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: paddymac
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 11:59 AM

MIck - this might turn out to be a much bigger project than you expected. Setting new lyrics to old tunes is a very common practice, in many music idioms. More often than not, it isn't acknowledged, and may even isn't known to the lyricist. Many of Percy French's songs are hung on old tunes. I think that the Soodlum song books frequently acknowledge the source melody. I'm putting a "trace" on this thread because it could be incredibly interesting if folks "get into" the idea.

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 11:43 AM

That was me..

Regards

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 11:17 AM

All i can swear to is that the Song is in slip jig time!

Regards

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: GUEST,mick
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 11:11 AM

Martin , Are you sure the tunes in the song and in the Rocky Road to dublin slip jig are the same? I know the song but when I tried working it out from the music in O'Neils Dance tunes they didn't seem to match completely. It might just be me .

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 11:08 AM

Arthur Mcbride!
It's in DT with the tune. Nice jig. M.C. and Swarb recorded it for topic- TSDC334 - Prince Heathen

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: MartinRyan
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 10:52 AM

Rocky Road to Dublin!

regards

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: GUEST,mick
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 10:45 AM

Yes ,that's the sort of stuff. I'd sort of like if I could get a list of the songs with an indication of what sort of tune they use -reel ,jig, hornpipe etc. I didn't know that Turkey in The Straw had lyrics to it though.
I can't think of any song that uses a slip jig

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: Splott Man
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 09:42 AM

Elsie Marley
Soldiers Joy
Over The Waterfall
Fflat Huw Puw
Turkey in the Straw
Mick Ryan's Lament (The Garryowen)

All songs AND tunes
Is that the sort of thing?

Subject: RE: trad music in songs
From: Crystal
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 09:26 AM

Waltz: Jock O' Hazeldean
and another Reel is Mairi's Wedding

is this the sort of thing you are looking for?

Subject: trad music in songs
From: GUEST,mick
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 09:21 AM

I'm trying to compile a list of songs that are based on traditional dance tunes and rhythmns . This is to help me get a handle on playing trad tunes on a guitar. I can remember any amounts of tunes when they have lyrics attached to them but forget them overnight otherwise. Can anyone help ? So far I've got :
Reels : Jamboree, Drunken Sailor ,Biker Hill
Jigs : Bold Thaddy Quill , Lannigans Ball
Hornpipes : Bobby Shaftoe,
Polkas : O you New York Girls