Reels/Hornpipes/Jigs phrasing & accents

Subject: RE: Reels/Hornpipes/Jigs phrasing & accents
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 06:47 AM

That should have been - stronger beat at notes 1 and 5,

Subject: RE: Reels/Hornpipes/Jigs phrasing & accents
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 06:46 AM

Reels and Hornpipes have the same number of beats in a bar. The rhytm is differen however. In general a reel has all 8 notes in constant tempo, whereas a hornpipe consists of a slightly longer note followed by a shorter one.
Hornpipes used to be written as "dotted" notes, but these days tend to be written without the dots, and so look the same as the notation for a reel. I think of a hornpipe having a rhythm which goes Dum-di-dum-di-dum-di-dum-di with the "dum" slightly longer and with a heavier emphasis than the "di".

The emphasis for hornpipes and reels tends to depend in part on the tune itself and in part on the speed it is being played. For reels, they are often played with two strong beats to the bar (beats 1 and 5 with notes in two groups of 4). With hornpipes you often find a stonger beat at notes and 5, but you also find a "lift" on beats 3 and 7. I can't think how to describe it, but it is definitely there.
I hope some of this helps.
Quack
GtD.

Subject: RE: Reels/Hornpipes/Jigs phrasing & accents
From: Stu
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 06:24 AM

Geoff is correct - the best way to understand Irish music is to immerse yourself in it.

In addition to Geoffs suggestions may I add: The Molloy/Brady/Peoples album whose name I don't have is a tour-de-force of the subtlety and rhythym of trad Irish. Also look for Planxty, Cran and the Chieftans (Water from the Well is particulary recommended).

A good bodhran player will be of assistance here too to really get in to the rhythms, and I would say Colm Murphy's album 'An Bodhran' is a good place to start.

And wait until you start with the English ones!

Subject: RE: Reels/Hornpipes/Jigs phrasing & accents
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 06:08 AM

Gargoyle -
Reels Jigs and Hornpipes are all styles of dance. Each one has its original distinctive rhythm based on what the dancers feet should have been doing.

For a Jig, the rhythm is based on a basic step where the bar is divided into two groups of three notes. The main emphasis is on the first note in each group of three, so there are two "down beats" (I assume by down beat you mean as in a conductor's baton stroke, and not just a depressing tune). The pattern of the feet is one foot goes onto the ground on beat one (bearing the weight of the dancer) followed by the other foot making two taps on the ground (one forward one back) without the weight being put onto the tapping foot. Then for the second half of the bar, the weight changes to the second foot, and the first foot does the taps.(APOLOGIES TO ANY IRISH DANCERS for my description).
The six notes are all of equal length, but the emphasis is stronger on notes 1 and 4.

Most people these days do not actually play tunes for people to dance. They are either played for an audience to listen, or in a session where it is often just a background to the general conversation.
Your questions suggest you are wanting to play for listeners.
If you play for dancers, the purpose of the music should be to give a rock steady rhythm and "beat" which sets the pace of the dance and provides a "lift" whaich makes the dancing easier. To do this, the accompaniment does not need to be very interesting, it just needs the beats in the right places.
When playing for an audience, it is possible to vary the rhytm in a way which would disrupt real dancing, but still sounds nice.

A few people play music for listening, which still contains the "feel" of music played for dancing. Try to track down recordings of De Dannan or Altan, both are excellent Irish bands who play a lot of dance tunes which have kept the "feeling" but also stand up as tracks to listen to.
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: Reels/Hornpipes/Jigs phrasing & accents
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 01:01 PM

THANK YOU!!!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Tech: Reels/Hornpipes/Jigs phrasing & accents
From: s&r
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 06:37 AM

Jigs: Mostly the 1 & 4 beats are stressed giving 123 223 etc. Sometimes the rhythm will break to a single bar of 1& 2& 3& 0r 1 2 3. Often the long note lasting 3/8 will give a rhythmic break.

Reels are usually faster than I can play.

Stu

Subject: RE: Tech: Reels/Hornpipes/Jigs phrasing & accents
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 06:10 AM

Gargoyle,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by downbeat in #1. Down up down is the common picking pattern for a 6/8 jig but other patterns are used effectively, eg. I know a good playet who prefers to use down down up most of the time.

The important thing with the 6/8 jig is that you can split it up 123-123 or you could say your emphasised notes fall on the 1st and 4th beats of the bar.

Remember though that not all tunes in 6/8 are jigs. There are 6/8 marches for example.

#3: The DT contains little in the way of jigs, reels, hornpipes etc. The most comprehensive resource for finding tunes is http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/findtune.html .

Other resources worth looking at if you want tunes by type are Richard Robinson's Tunebook and Heinrick Norbeck's abc site.

As you will have noticed, most of the tune material is in abc. You will find a more complete listing of sites with abc collections, most of which are tune collections at the abc homepage.

Opinions may vary but I see no point in trying to make the dt into a tune (without words) resource as well as a song resource.

Subject: Tech: Reels/Hornpipes/Jigs phrasing & accents
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 01:48 AM

Two questions:

The DT does not have a broad enough selection there are not enough midi examples.

#1.

I need to understand the tradition phrasing/pauses/emphasis to work a piano or accordian with a guitar (sometimes fiddle.)

Is the downbeat always 1&3 in a 6/8? Is the note after a rest always accented. The notation is fabulous - it is the "style" I am unable to capture.

#3

The DT list is complete? So any tunes available but not on the list .... should be e-mailed as midi to Joe Offer?

Sincerely,

Gargoyle