BS: Are the mods Anti-English

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 12:40 AM

Keith and Divis, as my children say, "chill out!"
...I think that means you're supposed to be civil to each other.
-Joe Offer-

---

Yeah, I think this thread has run its course. thread closed.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Gurney
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 11:08 PM

To speak to the first post, no, I do not think the moderators are anti-English.
Many of the "Guest" posters are, though.

The moderators are notably anti virulent personal abuse and racial abuse, though, and that suits me.

Gurney. English for the first half of my life, Kiwi for the second half, and if I'd been born Irish or Palestinian, likely I'd be a supporter of political organisations there.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: JennyO
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 10:28 PM

BTW, there is a thing on Mudcat called messaging. Just in case anyone didn't know.

I know only too well, Peace :-( One PM I had (thanks, Keith) was fine. The other one came completely out of left field from somtbody else who wasn't even in the discussion and decided to misinterpret my words. At least I had the satisfaction of telling said person to butt out (only in slightly more polite words). All this paranoia only reminds me why I don't visit those threads.

Maybe I'll go and not-post to another thread. This one seems to be ruined.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 08:26 PM

Okay Mick, point taken. I replied to yet another silly remark aimed at winding me up, which it failed to achieve. I should have ignored it. Well I am off it as of now. Hope the others do the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 08:16 PM

I am very close to shutting it down.

And what exactly would closing yet another thread, for yet another poor excuse achieve?

Actually closing it would achieve just about as much as you making this empty threat to shut it down would.

Nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 08:04 PM

Folks, this thread has run its course. It was a troll from the beginning designed to get an argument started. I attempted to answer with candor and turn it to a legitimate direction. It is now being subverted to the personal argument between two antagonists. I am very close to shutting it down.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 07:47 PM

Are the mods Anti-English?

Some of them certainly seem to be quite openly anti-me.

But for them to be openly seen to be anti to this one Englishman does not appear to be thought anything for our forum to be concerned about.

Which is now something that makes me concerned for our forum.

This is something that should perhaps be concerning you also - whatever your opinion may be of my worth (or of the English in general).

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 06:52 PM

Dear Richard, Really this is not the thread to discuss politics of Ireland, as the title clearly states.

I imagine you are English and you understand I am Irish. There is no undercurrent. I CLEARLY defend the cause for Irish unity and make no secret about it.I welcome the end of the campaign which I lived through and want nothing more than peace in my country and a British withdrawal.

Yes I also defend the Provisional IRA, who no longer exist. Clearly you have the right to defend British policy in Ireland if you so wish.

Please respect my wish as a Republican as I respect yours. One member feels for some reason he wants to take the PIRA to task. Why ? since they no longer exist. If and when he makes a nasty remark, I respond. Simple as that. Would you prefer I left the site and allowed this one member to continue to attack something I and other members believe in ?

Best wishes
DS

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 06:37 PM

I have not read the whole of the thread and I ought to but I may say that I think there is an undercurrent (at least) in the postings of many here who seek to justify the activities of the IRA (etc), an undercurrent that has gone unchecked. Certainly that sense has curtailed things I would otherwise have posted, since I post in my own name and am readily traceable.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 06:32 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 12:37 AM

That is OK with me Joe.
It is Sweeney and Epona who hate the music.


another NI thread
From: Epona - PM
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 05:48 AM

Keith, where and when have you ever lied? Here's an example. When you said I hated music. And then changed that statement when challenged to "do not like". And we're drifting again....

And how about that's the last I'll discuss that with you? You start to faulter and you change the subject. When you have something new to say, let me know. Hopefully I won't need my walker to get to my computer by that time.

The horse is dead...let's move on.

E Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread

From: Divis Sweeney - PM
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 05:27 AM

Good Morning Keith,

I hope I find you well.
Oh dear it's doesn't look good for you so far ! Do I see nasty little pork pies today again ?

Really Keith, I never ever said I HATE the music.

Doesn't look good for you in the popularity stakes reading some of comments above.

Then again a willingness to embrace the truth and apologise isn't one of your strong points.

Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread

From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 05:33 AM

Big difference in that and the word hate. So have either member used the word HATE ?

Yes or no? If not this makes your statement a lie, does it not.


Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 05:36 AM

Not a lie, just exagerated do not like to hate.
Which I have already corrected.
It was a year ago!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 06:23 PM

Ah, cross-posting...sorry.

What do you think it might have been that Keith interpreted that way, any idea?

Whatever else you may think of the man, I dont think he can be called a liar.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 06:22 PM

chim chim in nee old boy. 100.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 06:16 PM

Is that right Divis?

Or just something you said to annoy Keith A?

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 06:12 PM

So here we see Keith at his finest. I never once said this, in fact he said this recently on another thread and so many members took him to task, (Thanks folks for all the pm's about that by the way).He really came off pretty bad on that one as he couldn't prove it then either, Haha. So he dislikes my record collection of Jimi Hendrix and Cream ? So I only come to argue, no Keith, I don't argue, I keep you right on all the facts, that you get so terribly wrong ? At least I can debate on my subject, as I live it.

Oh dear Keith, sorry am I not taking your bait ?

Ah it's a pity the Provisionals have stood down, and my fellow Irish hero's only want to see peace in our country. Otherwise we could have read you in with that chapter in the book, The Dirty War by Martin Dillon.

Secretly Keith I always suspected you had this hidden desire to become a volunteer, I could be wrong, but then again I rarely am !

Right folks, back to the thread, No I do not think the mods are Anti English, I have a great respect for each and every one of of these fine people.

Try again Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 05:40 PM

I liked it better before too.
Sorry for my part in it.
Sweeney said from the start that he dislikes all the music that Mudcat encompasses, and that he only comes here to argue about Ireland.
I know I should not allow myself to be drawn in but I weary of the taunts.
Anyway, he is not going to answer my offer so I will let it pass again.
No more from me on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 05:38 PM

BTW, there is a thing on Mudcat called messaging. Just in case anyone didn't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 05:36 PM

I just stopped in to see how everyone's doing. Hi all. Hope you have a great day.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: JennyO
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 02:03 PM

This whole thread is turning into a shambles.

Talk about crossed wires!!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: JennyO
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 02:00 PM

I was referring to what he said first about the "Wannabe Forum Moderator". The other bit went over my head because I don't read those other threads. If this is going to turn into one of those threads too, I'm outta here. I'm not going to play referee, that's for sure.

I liked this thread much better when we were talking about mods and rockers (sigh)

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 01:52 PM

That suggests he is referring to someone who is anti Irish.
Has Shambles been accused of that?

I have been accused of causing every wrong that this universe could possibly suffer from and called just about every name that you can imagine (and some you can't).

I have found there is little point in responding in kind to such things or of responding at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 01:34 PM

JennyO and Jeri
Sweeney's comment to Joe ended,"At least you did not say you were Irish."
That suggests he is referring to someone who is anti Irish.
Has Shambles been accused of that?
I have.
By Sweeney.
Often.
If you were repeatedly accused of hostility to a race, or nationality, would you not challenge it?
Was I agressive or rude in my challenge?
Again, if he did not mean me, it would cost him nothing to say so.
He found time for the humourous insult just now.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: JennyO
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 01:08 PM

You said it Jeri! I don't know anything about this brawl that seems to have spilled over here from somewhere else, and I don't wanna know. Why don't you take it somewhere else, guys?

And for those who seem to be getting paranoid about what I said (you know who you are) I WAS TALKING ABOUT SHAMBLES! How did I ever get mixed up in this crap?

Jeezus Kerisste - get a life!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 11:52 AM

Good afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen, and you too Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 11:32 AM

Sweeney posted this just a couple of days ago.
detail.cfm?messages__Message_ID=1823323

I let that one pass, then he posted the above yesterday.

It is not me looking for a fight.He is provoking one.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 11:08 AM

I think he's talking about Shambles, Keith. You and Divis need to go have a drink together or just beat the crap out of each other or something.

This is like having a large family gathering and knowing you can't seat Aunt Helen at the same end of the table as Aunt Mabel, because they'll always start something, no matter where they go or who else is there. You put them at different ends of the table. Then, one gets up for some reason and goes down to the other end of the table, and pretty soon you have to take the forks away from them...

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Epona
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 10:54 AM

Ding ding ding....Round 754!

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: JennyO
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 10:52 AM

I'm not talking about anon guests, and I'm not talking about the Irish threads either.

Aw fergit it. Life's too short...

Nice day we're having, innit!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 10:44 AM

He can not be referring to anon guests because there are more anti Brit than anti Irish guest posts.

If he does not mean me, it would cost him nothing to say so.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: JennyO
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 10:00 AM

Um Keith, I don't think he was talking about you. He was referring to a certain other fellow poster who shall remain nameless, but never silent. This poster doesn't mind a bit of fishing himself - putting out the bait and trolling to see who bites. However, the way things are going now, he might have to find another fishing ground, as he hasn't been catching too many lately!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 07:12 AM

...and if you did not mean me, please say so.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 07:04 AM

sweeney, you have had another dig at an un named person who is anti Irish.
Because of our history, readers might assume you meant me.
If you did, I make this offer and challenge to you.
If you or the guest with an encyclopaedic knowledge of my old posts can find one anti Irish sentiment in any of my posts, I will never again post on irish matters.
Not holding my breath,
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 05:06 AM

Do you mean that that rather than moderating, you'd prefer to be gefiltefisching?
That would give a certain person something to carp about!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 03:24 AM

Joe, Do you not know by now you are not allowed to say such things ?
Oh dear, can't see the "Wannabe Forum Moderator" letting you off with that remark. At least you didn't say you were Irish.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 08:55 PM

Joe, A brokha tsu dayn lebn.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: pdq
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 08:43 PM

"Does this mean I'm anti-English?"

No, but it might suggest that the Jesuits spent a lot of time educating the wrong man.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 08:36 PM

Clever, Giok!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 07:18 PM

I speak English, and I'm a moderator. I hate myself for speaking English and would rather speak Yiddish, if I indeed could speak Yiddish, but nobody would understand me.
Does this mean I'm anti-English?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 02:36 PM

I forget the name Jenny, but the phase is familiar!
G. ☺

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 02:08 PM

So wot about the one I posted then, eh Giok? It's got 'she's a' and 'yeah yeah yeah' so it must belong in both phases.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 01:55 PM

Songs in the 60s went through 3 distinct phases, there was the she's a ... phase, the Baaaaaby phase, and the Yeah yeah yeah phase. In each of the songs of these phases it was permissable to repeat the buzz word as many times as you want!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 01:24 PM

Yeah yeah yeah, I know what you mean Ebbie. I suspect it was not a coincidence. And there probably was a 'Wooooh!' or two in there as well, Paul. I don't remember (well you know what they say about the 60's - if you remember them you weren't there ;-))

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 11:48 AM

Yeah, but it needed a 'Wooooh!' in there too....*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 11:44 AM

Reminds me of the early Beatles lyrics. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 04:10 AM

I was a mod in the 60's. Anyone in NZ or Oz remember this?


SHE'S A MOD - Ray Columbus and the Invaders

She's a mod, she's a mod, she's a mod
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
She's a mod, she's a mod
Yeah, yeah
She's a mod, she's a mod
She won't change any more.

They don't write lyrics like that anymore (sigh)!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 02:49 AM

This thread is a typical example of drifting. Started out good, then went to crap about clothes in the 1960's. Rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 10:28 PM

Thank you Jon!

It's amazing what you can learn with a little help from your friends.

Goodnight, all.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 10:21 PM

Say it aint so!

{I mean the part about the lizards}.

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 10:21 PM

Azzizi, try this.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: pdq
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 10:13 PM

No, sorry. It probably means 'grumpy old jerk who lives in the Nevada desert and keeps company with lizards' but that would take too long to type.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 10:00 PM

Well, at least this thread has solved the burning question
{that I didn't know was burning until I read this thread title} "What was meant by the term "Mod" in the 1960s American tv show "The Mod Squad"?

In his 01 Sep 06 - 05:19 PM post, pdq gave a description of what Mod meant, but Les and Paul {both from Hull}raised an objection to pdq's definition of Mods as hippies and pdq agreed with this objection-well "PDQ".*

Although I was beginning to make some sense out of this all, I decided to turn to the source of sources-otherwise known as Google. Google led me to these dictionary entries:

mod (mŏd)
n.
An unconventionally modern style of fashionable dress originating in England in the 1960s.

adj.
In or characteristic of this unconventionally modern style.
Fashionably up-to-date, especially in style, design, or dress.
[After the Mods, name of several gangs of English youths in the 1960s, short for MODERN.]

mod

adjective

Being or in accordance with the current fashion: à la mode, chic, dashing, fashionable, modish, posh, smart, stylish, swank, swanky, trig. Informal classy, in, sharp, snappy, swish, tony, trendy. Slang with-it. Idioms: all the rage, up to the minute. See style/good style/bad style, usual/unusual.
Characteristic of recent times or informed of what is current: au courant, contemporary, current, modern, up-to-date, up-to-the-minute. See knowledge/ignorance, new/old.

http://www.answers.com/topic/mod-1
-snip-

Then I decided to google "The Mod Squad" and found this Wikipedia entry:

"The Mod Squad was a television police drama from executive producers Aaron Spelling and Danny Thomas in the United States, that ran on ABC from 1968-1973.

It was a police show that featured "hip" young crime fighters: one African-American, one street kid, and one blonde woman. The demographic indexing involved in the casting was intended to appeal to the newly recognized counter-culture in the US. The basic cop-show was updated with young, troubled investigators, who were, in the premise of the show, offered work fighting crime as an alternative to incarceration themselves. The show was moderately popular, running for five years. Tige Andrews (Captain Greer), Michael Cole (Pete Cochran), Peggy Lipton (Julie Barnes), and Clarence Williams III (Linc Hayes) starred. During its run, the show attempted to deal with issues of racial politics and portray a multicultural society."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mod_Squad
-snip-

Prior to this thread, if I thought about that rhyming title at all, I thought that "mod" in Mod Squad was short for "modest".
{just kidding}.

So, now I can say that I've learned something new today.
But there's one more reference in this thread that I haven't been able to figure out. What's a Rocker?

And oh, yeah that *...well
* PDQ means {pretty da** quick}.

I wonder, is this what the name pdq means?
Oh, right. This isn't the Name That Mudcatter thread.

Sorry for the drifting off subject, sorta.
{sorta sorry and sorta drifting}...

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:29 PM

Yep.

There is a reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:16 PM

Ay particular reason why you are posting that in THIS Thread, Shambles?

Any reason why you did not make the same equiry when the following was posted in this thread?

It doesn't do any good to discuss any of this with Shambles. He knows the names of all the moderators, and yet he continues to complain about their anonymity. In a three-day period a week or two ago, I transferred all the messages we usually delete into his "closed and deleted" thread, so he and the rest of the world could see a normal sample of what gets deleted. This demonstration didn't satisy Shambles, and he continues to assert that the Mudcat moderators are silently deleting something or another. I guess I have to expect that Shambles will continue to assert that horrible but nonspecific things are happening in secret. I can't think of how to devise a system that will provide absolute proof that these horrible nonspecific things are NOT being done by Anonymous Fellow Posters. I tried, but he didn't believe me, so it doesn't do any good to discuss anything with him. I guess it's good to just let him continue to believe in these Horrible Nonspecific Things and in his Anonymous Fellow Posters, because it gives meaning and purpose to his life. I do have to limit him to one thread at a time, so the rest of us can actually carry on reasonable discussions. I suppose that since this is "his" topic, this will become "his" thread, and I'll have to close the other one. I'll wait and see what he does.
Joe Offer

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:15 PM

Yes, I know all about that Thread...I think we ALL do.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:12 PM

I am trying very hard not to provide the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team with even the slightest any excuse for him to close any more threads or delete any more posts.

Closed threads and deleted posts

As for Joe being a rocker - I try to make a point of not making any personal judgements of any of my fellow posters or of responding in kind to those made of my worth.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:07 PM

Ay particular reason why you are posting that in THIS Thread, Shambles?

I'd love to know your reasons for posting at all....

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: number 6
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:51 PM

Shambles .... Are you saying Joe's a Rocker?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:49 PM

But anyhow, the mods aren't anti-English. They just don't take a position.
-Joe Offer-

Well we now have the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing team's assurance.

Our forum was given the assurance in an editing comment - by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team - that the following thread would remain open. That was before he closed it.

Do you need to be censored?

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: number 6
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:23 PM

Question ... were the Rockers Anti-English? My impression is that they were pro-American (American wannabe's).

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:04 PM

Hehe

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: pdq
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 06:10 PM

Absolutely right. I think they are getting off Scott free!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 06:04 PM

Welsh, a dictionary definition to run off froma racecourse without settling your bets,.
    Now if that isnt the most racist statement ,andyet some idiot complains about mods being anti English.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:57 PM

Far too many, pdq, far too many.....& the Mods were none too peaceable either...

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: pdq
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:38 PM

I'm quite sure you are correct on that. I forgot that many British youth consider punching people in the nose to be a form of entertainment.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Les from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:30 PM

Mods not known for 'peace and love' though! I suppose that the UK equivalent of hippies was hippies.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: pdq
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:19 PM

Prompted by a couple of posts upstream: the people called Mods were were part of culture of the 60s. Colorful clothes, Rock music, long hair and Carnaby Street all come to mind. They were the British equivalent of US hippies (best word I could think of) but the Mods seemed to be intent on having fun. American counterculture was much more linked to drugs and politics.

Obviously the Mod cultural movement in the 60s took its name from 'modern'.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Epona
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:09 PM

The fact is Divis that you are a wealth of information, though some may not like some of the facts you present. Plus, you don't blur any lines and you always let your opinions be known. I think all can respect your honesty with your stance.

I have always appreciated that of you and of several members here, and though I may not agree with them, I respect them nonetheless.

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:39 PM

Doubt MI-6 sponsored many of the IRA attacks. There were a few bombings and several shootings over here that the PIRA got blamed on and there was no way they did them. Sorry can only speculate who was responsible, at the time the materials used were not of the norm and the gun attacks left a few scratching their heads as to why.

I also wish to say I myself am not anti English. I may have issues with British government policy, but not the English people. A good point was raised earlier in this thread about the flying of the flag of St, George. You have every right to fly it and be proud during the World Cup of on your national day.

Another point raised there about the Royal family, I hold no opinion on them,only to say, to me they are only a figure head and a tourist attraction.

I have few friends here, because of my beliefs. One member cuts the crap out of me at every opportunity. Please understand that because I welcome the ending of the campaign and express my desire for peace, I have more over here that would dislike me from the few that support the Real IRA or the Continuity IRA.

So I am in a no win situation.

Divis no mates.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: weerover
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:58 PM

Second that, Giok. A radio report today quotes a Scots MSP saying to a reporter that if Blair doesn't give a date for him standing down before next year's Scottish elections, "We [New Labour in Scotland] are f***ed!". The reporter actually said "wrecked" but indicated that another word was actually used.

wr

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:54 PM

Guest the house of Windsor have nothing to do with anything that MI5/6 or 600 does. This is an often spread lie, while the queen may sign bills or give the royal assent before a bill passes into law, she has nothing whatsoever to do with the framing of that law.
The Queen's speech read at the opening of parliament, is written by the government, and she has no input.
If you want to blame someone blame the government, or the PM thereof!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:51 PM

..Though I'll not mourn if the Mods eradicate that pile of steaming nonsense above..

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:47 PM

MI-6 sponsored many of the IRA attacks. How can you NOT hate a govt like that? The house of Windsor needs to be levelled.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: number 6
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:43 PM

I thought the Mods were the epitome of everything English ... ok, they rode Italian scooters but they had them flagged out with Union Jacks.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:42 PM

I THOUGHT I had made this statement earlier in the thread, but seems not...though perhaps missing it by looking too hard.

I wasnt involved for all/both? recent threads in question, but at no point did I think it necessary for a Mod to take action, other than perhaps when it was clear that some people accustomed to posting on a certain 'Loyalist' website started posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:41 PM

Oh Joe how could you say that - after all the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, which I have suffered?

Ah me! All those calumnies from my detractors....

All the pain and humiliation, the sadness, the hours spent drinking just the bitter waters of solitude and misery!

If it continues, I'm going home to Mother!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:15 PM

If I get a complaint about a message or a thread, I'll take a look at it - and usually I'll decide to leave it alone unless it's a clear-cut problem. Generally, we leave political discussions alone because:

• Who in his right mind would want to read that crap?
• How could anybody decide what's appropriate or inappropriate in a discussion like that?

If a discussion like that turns into a hateful brawl, then we'll close or delete the thread - whichever seems to be the appropriate thing to do to settle things down.
But usually, we don't do anything at all with threads of that type.

Personal attacks are another matter, but even then we aren't as heavy on censorship as some would have you believe. Generally, though, we delete personal attacks when we see them or when we get complaints about them.

I suppose that most of what we delete are messages that flood the forum with useless information - mostly Spam; but also non-music copy-pastes that fill more than one screen, and multiple copies of the same post that appear in a number of threads.

In general, though, we delete far less than most people would like us to delete - despite allegations to the contrary from one particular party. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any real value in intervening in the Irish threads - deciding on what is appropriate and what is inappropriate, is simply too arbitrary. In general, we don't really care if people say outrageous things - as long as it doesn't cause general chaos here at Mudcat. Our job is to keep the peace - not to decide whether something is appropriate or not.

So, are the Mudcat moderators anti-English? No, we just don't take a position on either side.

It doesn't do any good to discuss any of this with Shambles. He knows the names of all the moderators, and yet he continues to complain about their anonymity. In a three-day period a week or two ago, I transferred all the messages we usually delete into his "closed and deleted" thread, so he and the rest of the world could see a normal sample of what gets deleted. This demonstration didn't satisy Shambles, and he continues to assert that the Mudcat moderators are silently deleting something or another. I guess I have to expect that Shambles will continue to assert that horrible but nonspecific things are happening in secret. I can't think of how to devise a system that will provide absolute proof that these horrible nonspecific things are NOT being done by Anonymous Fellow Posters. I tried, but he didn't believe me, so it doesn't do any good to discuss anything with him. I guess it's good to just let him continue to believe in these Horrible Nonspecific Things and in his Anonymous Fellow Posters, because it gives meaning and purpose to his life. I do have to limit him to one thread at a time, so the rest of us can actually carry on reasonable discussions. I suppose that since this is "his" topic, this will become "his" thread, and I'll have to close the other one. I'll wait and see what he does.

But anyhow, the mods aren't anti-English. They just don't take a position.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:05 PM

Hmmm...I'd assumed that the term Moderator was fairly 'universal' acoss the InterWeb...*G*

Its interesting to know that a British term has reached what I would have thought was 'popular usage'.

...after all, WE did invent it.









....AND Computers.

....TWICE.

*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:00 PM

Paul, I'm no longer offended and now that I understand that no harm was meant, please let it go, okay?

***
As to the question are mods anti-English, what's a mod?

No. really. I get that this is a British abbreviation for 'moderator'.

That abbreviation reminds me of the American television show
"The Mod Squad", though I don't think that 'mod' meant "moderation".

And if you think I'm flubbing off the question, you'd be right because I confess that I don't always read the Irish/English threads and when I do, it's more to gain cultural/historical awareness that I'm lacking. So I'll have to pass on this question. But, hopefully, I'll do better on the next pop quiz.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:50 PM

True Kat!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:49 PM

It would be a laugh on all of the Americans who haven't a clue that there may be Irish, or any other European ancestry in the background of said American of African origin president, Paul. The racists among them would be horrified.

As to the title question: no

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:34 PM

Ok, if anyone finds that missing 'm'.....*G*

I grant you, Azizi, it wasnt very tactfully put at all...if there is still something about it that 'rankles', I'd prefer to try & put it right...send me a P.M. if you wish?

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:23 PM

Paul, yes of course I will accept your apologies on behalf of myself and whoever else that comment might pertain to. I get what you are saying, but still...

Nevermind. It's not something to waste energy over.

Btw, you said that when you wrote that post, I 'coe' to your mind.
I hope 'coe' is something good.

:o)

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:20 PM

"and which you could even post to"

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 02:13 PM

What we have are volunteers who mostly help fix broken HTML.

'Mostly' being the operative and totally misleading word. The true nature and current level of imposed censorship remains unknown to our forum. See the following thread for more details - and which you could even post to (at the moment) - as it currently remains open.

Closed threads and deleted posts

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:58 PM

Sorry Azizi, I meant no offence (& you DID actually coe to mind while I was posting that).

Can I rephrase that earlier post & say that the humour to be found n that situation would be imagining said African-American President making a stop in each & every European Capital?

THAT was the context in which I meant it, & I know that looks like back-pedalling, but I hope the intial idea is clearer now, & any offence I caused you to take, put to rest?

Again, apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:43 PM

Paul from Hull,

I'm not sure why the thought of the first African-American President of the U.S. {or any other African American for that matter}
re-acquainting him or herself with his Irish roots causes you to have a "bloody good laugh".

Given the fact that African Americans are probably the most racially mixed people on earth, there's bound to be some of us who can trace our 'roots' to Ireland. Why would the fact that we'd want to experience our Irish ancestry be laughable?

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:39 PM

Bah! I typed a long post in reply to Divis earlier this afternoon (it would have been the next post after his) but it didnt send, my computer went glitchy, then I had to go out anyway. Damned if I can be arsed to post it all again now.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Bert
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:29 PM

No.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:27 PM

Now, each of these volunteers is a human being with their own likes and dislikes. That doesn't necessarily mean that they perform their Mudcat chores in a biased way.

It doesn't necessarily mean they do not.

Our forum may be more prepared to take your assertion that they were not acting in a biased way - on trust, if our forum were trusted enough to be to know who these 'mods' are and how many of them there are.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Den
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:12 PM

The answer to the first question, are the moderators anti-English? In my oppinion no. The rest of the poster's post is propagandistic drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Epona
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:49 PM

I'll remember you said that, K! ;)

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Grab
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:21 PM

Would Mudcat tolerate pro AL QEADA threads?

Obviously not a mod myself. But I hope that the mods wouldn't remove such a thread. I also hope that members would be telling the person starting it (most probably an anonymous Guest) they were talking out their arse.

But if someone's got a new opinion or new idea to throw into the mix, whether or not it makes any damn sense, I hope this wouldn't lead to deletion.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:18 PM

Epona, just a typo this time, but guilty of plenty of genuine mispellings.
These threads are just friends chatting. No need to reach for a dictionary.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:07 PM

I think Mudcat doesn't have "mods" as people usually think of them-- as usually seen at other discussion boards. People so often forget that Mudcat predates current discussion/message board culture, and is its own creature. What we have are volunteers who mostly help fix broken HTML.

Now, each of these volunteers is a human being with their own likes and dislikes. That doesn't necessarily mean that they perform their Mudcat chores in a biased way.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Epona
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:04 PM

Sweemey? I thought you were a stickler for spelling, Keith. Has the night begun already for you?! :)

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:51 AM

Sorry Dave, but I have been a staunch opponent of terror in persuit of political gain, and want to say that I would not expect the mods to close threads where people express views to the contrary.
I would like to challenge Sweemey's post.
No doubt he will put it all up again.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:50 AM

Everyone knows I am a mod. Everyone knows that my sentiments are Republican and Nationalist with regard to the country of my Grandparents. I can assure you that I have more than one Irish ancestor, but that really isn't the subject being discussed and it is a cheap shot to try and make it so. Ours is a land of immigrants and we identify with our cultural heritage.

I would say when I came to Mudcat in 1998, I had an unreasonable anti English bias. It was founded in ignorance. The result of all these years of exposure to folks on both sides of the equation has been to diminish that bias to a great degree. I would say I have no bias against English people, but I have had my opposition to the English governments policies in the North of Ireland strengthened to a great degree. Without exception, the English folks I have met have been kind people. I have enjoyed getting to know them and count many as friends. In the end result, my life has been enriched and enhanced coming to know them.

As to my duties as a moderator, there has been absolutely no difference in how I would treat pro English policy posters from posters who reflect my own biases. In fact, usually I leave moderation of those threads to others because of sensitivity to charges of bias. But I will say this. While these threads have plenty of heat, there has not been flame. I can remember back to 1999 or so when we had a long running thread on "Back Home In Derry". It got heated, but we all agreed that it was useful and, for the most part, respectful. We have no need to stray away from controversy here. In fact controversy has probably spawned as much folk music as any factor. I think it is a good thing, done right. Mod's at the Mudcat are not here to control the conversation. We are here to make sure personal attacks aren't allowed (we don't always do this as well as we should), to fix links or edits, and avoid lengthy cut and pastes, etc. Personal attack is a hard one to define. Usually the use of gratuitous vulgarity is the hallmark. Calling someone's viewpoint foolish, ill informed, etc. is not a personal attack. Calling someone an asshole is. Unless something is clear and unequivocal, we usually talk it over before dumping it.

I can assure you of one thing. I am not anti English, and usually stray away from any moderating decisions on these threads so as to avoid the bias charge.

The conversations I have seen between Keith of Hertford, Divis and others are usually well within the boundaries. They are not always pleasant but usually kept with civil norms.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:29 AM

This whole thread is nonsense. There is not and never have been any 'depressing pro-IRA threads'. There has been lively debate on both sides. There has been some annoying name calling and mis-information on both sides. There has been some wonderful and enlightening rhetoric on both sides. There has never been and never will be any pro or anti anything threads on the mudcat. Someone may start one but I can guarantee that before long the opposite view will be voiced.

Whoever 'a regular member' is should know that if they are indeed a regular member. But if they are why sign out? Makes them worse than an anonymous troll.

This is my last post on this thread and I would ask everyone to stop right here and let the shitstirrer try another place.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: leeneia
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:06 AM

I just went to the music threads and counted 30 threads that are about English music or English events. That ought to answer the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Stu
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 10:51 AM

I have to come out in defence of Divis here - he has always spoken with candor and his posts have gone some way to changing my view on the nature of the conflict - and I agree the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement is a key requirement for peace in the north.

I wonder though - if I were to show the same committment to the English nationalist cause as Divis does to the Irish nationalist cause, that wouldn't go down too well anywhere. Now let's be clear, I am categorically NOT making a judgement on anyone or their beliefs, just musing on the nature of nationalism in the Islands we share.

The oft-stated idea that waving the English flag is somehow shows support for the BNP (whose name includes the word British, note, not English) or hides some sort of racist overtones has to change, and English people have to be able to freely identify with their national symbols if they want - if everytime an Irish, Scottish or Welsh flag was waved in England the wavee (?) was called a racist/BNP/oppressor of whoever this country would be a bloody miserable place to live, and the bigots doing the shouting would hopefully come in for some serious flak.

Anyway, I personally don't like the concept of nationalism in a political sense - it leads to division. I look forward to the day a United Isles of the West is declared, each country celebrating our own cultures and shared heritage, making our own laws for our own people, so we can finally get on with being the brother and sisters we truly are rather than the bickering siblings kings, queens, priests, vicars, bishops, cardinals, imams, generals, politicians and assorted knobheads have made us over the centuries.

Heck, the music would be the best!

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:24 AM

Welcome to the latest N.I. thread. In this corner we have Divis Sweeney and in the other 9723 corners we have............LMAO!


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:17 AM

Many of you speak as if the Provisional Irish Republican Army are up and running. This isn't 1975.

If any of you came forward looking to join the Provo's, the answer would be, they no longer exist.

For any of you that didn't know, The leadership of Oglaigh na hEireann formally ordered an end to the armed campaign on the 28th of July 2005.

All IRA units were ordered to dump arms, and they did.

All Volunteers were instructed to assist the development of purely political and democratic programmes through exclusively peaceful means, and they did.


The IRA leadership also authorised a representative to engage with the IICD [Independent International Commission on Decommissioning] to complete the process to verifiably put its arms beyond use in a way which will further enhance public confidence and to conclude this as quickly as possible, this has now been carried out.

Two independent witnesses, from the Protestant and Catholic churches, did testify to this.

The Army Council took these decisions following an unprecedented internal discussion and consultation process with IRA units and Volunteers.

I was proud of the comradely way in which this truly historic discussion were conducted. The outcome of our consultations show very strong support among IRA Volunteers for the Sinn Fein peace strategy.

The overwhelming majority of people in Ireland fully support this process. They and friends of Irish unity throughout the world want to see the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement.

Not withstanding these difficulties, decisions have been taken to advance republican and democratic objectives, including my goal of a united Ireland.

I believe there is now an alternative way to achieve this and to end British rule in my country. It is the responsibility of all Volunteers to show leadership, determination and courage.

I am very mindful of the sacrifices of our patriot dead, those who went to jail, Volunteers, and what we had to put up with.

I reiterate my view that the armed struggle was entirely legitimate.I am conscious that many people suffered in the conflict.


There is a responsibility on society to ensure that there is no re-occurrence of the pogroms of 1969 and the early 1970s.

There is also a universal responsibility to tackle sectarianism in all its forms.

I understand there is bad feeling towards all Oglaigh for the campaign in Britain, I am sorry for any loss of life.

The campaign is over and please allow those interested in the subject to debate it's history if so required. I am a republican, and very proud of it, if any of you have a problem with that, sorry the problem is yours.

DS

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:28 AM

Amen to every word of that, Giok!

I look forward to having a bloody good laugh on the day that the first African-American President of the U.S., early in his tenure, flies into Dublin on a trip to 're-acquaint himself with his Irish roots'.

Speaking of which, why doesnt that sort of thing include Poland, or Italy, etc, etc? Why just Ireland? Any opinions?

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:17 AM

Some of the moderators on this site are English I believe, are we talking treason here?
I always take the Pro IRA threads with a pinch of salt, drinking a pint of Guinness doeasn't make you Irish, neither does having one Irish ancestor out of a hundred European forebears. Many of the people posting on these threads are operating on the basis of knowing the words to the bloody Fields of Athenry, and such like maudlin songs.
The few who do know what they are talking about are drowned in the floods of Mother mo chride, from a host of underdog sympathisers, and a dash of anti English sentiment.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:17 AM

Norman, I dont know if you consider me as evading the question above, & I'm not too fussed if you do think that, but...

No, I DON'T think the Mods are Anti-English.

Perhaps some Members who are also Moderators have some bias, I dont know, but if they are American (or Australian, for that matter) that would hardly be uncommon.

...& I agree the threads you are referring to were certainly NOT very 'civilised'.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:08 AM

There are at least 4 questions in trhe opening post Norman. Which one are you refering to?

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:47 AM

I have no idea if the Mods are anti-English at all....I see no evidence for it.

Wile I acknowledge that the Irish-related threads were unmoderated, I see that as Joe's commitment to free speech, nothing more.

Granted, we Brits were arguing at a disadvantage on those threads (& I suppose that parallels the terrorists vs security forces in the real world) but should the Mods have stepped in for that reason?

The time to kill a thread is early on, if its a troll starting it or hijacking it early, not after reasoned debate has begun.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:34 AM

Probably the most anti English are us English ourselves. We have to put up with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: GUEST,Norman Normal
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:32 AM

The pro IRA terrorist threads are anything but civilised, and you have not answered the question Paul.A simple yes or no will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:31 AM

I say 'enough is enough' "GUEST,A regular member", & although you phrased it as a question, that cant help but be an accusation.

No reason to think the Mods are anti-English, though without doubt some Members are...which I suppose is their 'right' even if they are 'wrong' to be so.

Subject: RE: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:29 AM

The mods were anti-rocker.

I can't see why the cat would censor pro-AQ threads if members discussed the issue in a civilised manner. After all,there are pro-Bush threads. Do you have a problem with issues being discussed?

Subject: BS: Are the mods Anti-English
From: GUEST,A regular member
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 07:23 AM

Simple question for you: Are the moderators of this site anti-English? There are a couple of depressing pro IRA terrorist threads that live here, totally unregulated. Would Mudcat tolerate pro AL QEADA threads? I think not! What say you?