Origins: Brother Ephus

Subject: RE: Origins: Brother Ephus
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 11:42 PM

I was sad to discover, upon further research, that Hedy West died about a year ago. What a loss.

Dan Schatz

Subject: RE: Origins: Brother Ephus
From: Richie
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 09:26 PM

Here's a link to Bob Allen's 1878 song "Old Uncle Eph:"

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=mussm&fileName=sm/sm1878/10300/10392/mussm10392.db&recNum=1&itemLink=D?mussm:1:./tem

With just a glance and not knowing the song I'd say this is a differnt song. The title and some of the lyrics may have floated.

I'll look at it when I get time.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Brother Ephus
From: Richie
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 09:16 PM

Other Recordings From Folk Index:

Brother Ephus [Me II-Q 7]

Rt - Uncle Reuben

Anglin Brothers. Anglin Brothers, Old Homestead OHS 122, LP (1979), trk# 3 [1937/11/05] (Uncle Eef's Got the Coon)
Arkansas Sheiks. Whiskey Before Breakfast, Bay 204, LP (1975), trk# 12
Chicken Chokers. Shoot Your Radio, Rounder 0241, LP (1987), trk# 4 (Eef Got A Coon)
Greer, Jim; and the Mac-O-Chee Valley Boys. Stars of the WWVA Jamboree, Rural Rhythm RRGreer 152, LP (197?), trk# B.10 (Uncle Eef's Got the Coon)
Sovine, Melanie. Appalachian Folk Music, Sovine WHA-0142LP, LP (1975), trk# A.06
Tucker, George. George Tucker, Rounder 0064, LP (1976), trk# 24 (Uncle Eef's Got the Coon)
Ward, Wade. Roscoe Holcomb and Wade Ward, Folkways FA 2363, LP (1962), trk# B.02 [1961/07] (Uncle Eef's Got the Coon)
West, Hedy. Old Times and Hard Times, Folk Legacy FSA-032, LP (1967), trk# 7

Subject: RE: Origins: Brother Ephus
From: Richie
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 09:13 PM

Uncle Eph
DESCRIPTION: About Uncle Eef/Eph/Ephraem's exploits, usually in hunting raccoons. May include recitations. Chorus: "Uncle Eph's got the coon and gone on And left us looking up a tree."
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1931 (recording, Dunham Jazz Singers)
KEYWORDS: animal hunting nonballad floatingverses humorous talltale
FOUND IN: US(SE)
REFERENCES (3 citations):
BrownIII 433, "Broder Eton Got de Coon" (1 text); also 511, "The Preacher Song" (1 text, a complex mix of verses from "Turkey in the Stray" and "Some Folks Say that a Preacher Won't Steal" with the "Uncle Eph" chorus)
Scarborough-NegroFS, pp. 101-102, "Brother Ephrum Got de Coon and Gone On" (1 text, 1 tune, with even more floating material than usual, e.g. from "Don't Get Weary Children (Massa Had a Yellow Gal)")
DT, (BRORPHUS -- on the face of it, a combination of this with a song about Moses)
Roud #11775
RECORDINGS:
Anglin Twins, "Uncle Eph's Got the Coon" (Vocalion 03904, 1937)
Dunham Jazz Singers, "Ephraim Got the Coon" (Columbia 14609-D, 1931)
Grandpa Jones, "Uncle Eph's Got The Coon" (King 867, 1950)
Art Thieme, "Uncle Eph/The Great Raccoon Hunt" [combines song and tall-tale] (on Thieme03)
Wade Ward, "Uncle Eef" [instrumental] (on Holcomb-Ward1)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Uncle Reuben" (floating lyrics)
cf. "Mourner, You Shall Be Free (Moanish Lady)" (floating lyrics)
Notes: Presumably the same as Bob Allen's 1878 song "Old Uncle Eph," but I haven't seen the latter to prove it.
It is interesting to note that at least two versions of this song -- Brown's #511 and the Hedy West text recorded in the Digital Tradition -- combine this with the chorus, "Where you going, Moses? None of your business.Come here, Moses. I ain't gonna do it." - RBW

Subject: RE: Origins: Brother Ephus
From: Richie
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 09:11 PM

Some info:

Brother Ephram was recorded frist by Wade Ward in 1925. The song is usually known as "Uncle Eph's Got the Coon."

"Uncle Eph's Got the Coon" was recorded first by that title in 1937 by the Shelton Bothers.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Brother Ephus
From: Richie
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 09:04 PM

Dan,

This is the sort of issue that's been happening in country music since the 20's and 30's when AP Carter went around collecting lyrics and copyrighting the songs.

Most of Hedy's lyrics are floating lyrics found in other songs (or versions of this song). Her version constitutes an arrangement of the song. You can play the same song with some of the same lyrics without giving her credit as long as they are found in other versions of the same song. If you use her exact lyrics, you are using her arrangement and she should get credit for it.

I strongly disagree that any artist can copyright "every" version of a traditional song just because they were the first to copyright it.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Brother Ephus
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 07:38 PM

Hmmm - I did the Mudcat search (one reason I don't post too often is that I always do) and completely missed that thread. Sorry about that.

However, the info in that thread sort of begs the question -

"Probably had its origin in a minstrel show song. Many songs traditional in the South were introduced there by travelling "Entertainments", medicine, magic and minstrel shows, which included musicians and singers in their programmes." "I sing here a part of the version of "Brother Ephus" that I learned from Grandma, who sometimes accompanies her singing with banjo, played in a double-thumbing style."

and

The song ("Brother Ephus" in the DT, cobbled or put-together by Hedy West, is derived from several minstrel and Negro folk songs and spirituals. The first verse has been reported since 1909 (Mississippi), but parts are much older. Newman L. White, 1928, American Negro Folk Songs, p. cites fragments under the title: BROTHER EBEN'S GOT A COON"

So I guess the question is how much cobbling Hedy West did to create the song, and should it be considered her composition, albeit with material taken from traditional sources?

Dan Schatz

Subject: RE: Origins: Brother Ephus
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 06:50 PM

It's always a good idea to try the onsite search engine here (as requested on the page where you start new threads) before starting a new thread: among various references, it finds this useful discussion from a few years back:

Background of Brother Ephus

Subject: Origins: Brother Ephus
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 06:29 PM

Does anyone know the origin of the song "Brother Ephus?" I learned it off an old Hedy West Folk Legacy album, but I no longer have the liner notes. While some of the verses clearly have traditional origins, it's not clear to me that the song itself as Hedy sings it is traditional.

Who gets the credit for this song? Is it Hedy West? Is it somebody else? Or is it that great Giver of All Things Good, "the folk tradition?"

Thanks for any help!

Dan Schatz