Origin: John, the Piper's Son

Subject: RE: Origin: John, the Piper's Son
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 10:13 PM

All of these minstrel tunes were 'borrowed' and rewritten by the various troupes, as well as cobbled and re-made with other songs into later versions within the original troupe. Music hall singers and touring medicine shows took them and made their own arrangements.
Lomax, Randolph and other collectors working in the 20th c. mostly have these cobbled together versions as remembered (and re-worked) by the people from whom the songs were collected; it is extremely difficult to determine the progression from composed song to the 'folk' versions; pre-minstrel antecedents were not collected. These 20th c. 'stacked' versions are interesting and fun, but are not of much use in finding origins.

'John' probably had its origin because Strong remembered 'Tom' from his nursery rhymes.
"Old Dan Tucker," published by Atwill in 1843, seems to be a little older than "Cum Along John," but they are both typical of these songs with comparable verses from the minstrel songs and their composers (Note- Wackipedia dates "Old Dan Tucker" incorrectly as younger than "Cum Along (mis-spelled and mis-titled as 'Walk....'), typical of this fool's reference).

'Come along' verses persisted in minstrel choruses well into the post-Civil War period. The song "Down in the South" (1879) has the chorus:

Come along, Darkies,
Come along I say,
I's bound for the land
Whar de milk and honey flow.
It am sweeter den de place
Whar de sugar cane grows.
(Collins and Hoskins)

Subject: RE: Origin: John, the Piper's Son
From: Richie
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 08:56 PM

Walk Along John
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Walk Along John", also known as "Oh, Come Along John", is an American song written for the blackface minstrel show stage in 1843. The lyrics of the song are typical of those of the early minstrel show. They are largely nonsense[1] about a black man who boasts about his exploits.[2]

The chorus goes:

Come along John, Come along John,
Come along John, de fifer's son,
Ain't you might glad dat your day's work done.[3]

"Walk Along John" is a likely source of inspiration for the later minstrel hit, "Old Dan Tucker". Verses in both songs are quite similar, such as this one:

Johhny lay on de rail road track,
He tied de engine on his back;
He pair's his corn wid a rail road wheel,
It gib 'im de tooth ache in de heel.[3]
Compare with this verse, commonly found in versions of "Old Dan Tucker":

Old Daniel Tucker wuz a mighty man,
He washed his face in a fryin' pan;
Combed his head wid a wagon wheel
And he died wid de toofache in his heel.[4]

[edit] Notes
^ Rammel 90.
^ Mahar 196.
^ a b Quoted in Rammel 90.
^ This verse or a variant thereof is quoted in Randolph, Ozark Folksongs, Volume III, p. 303, A Prairie Home Companion Folk Song Book (both quoted in Waltz), and in Lomax and Lomax 261.

[edit] References
Lomax, John A., and Lomax, Alan (1934). American Ballads and Folk Songs. New York: The Macmillan Company.
Mahar, William J. (1999). Behind the Burnt Cork Mask: Early Blackface Minstrelsy and Antebellum American Popular Culture. Chicago: University of Illinois Press.
Rammel, Hal (1990). Nowhere in America: The Big Rock Candy Mountain and Other Comic Utopias. Urbana, Illinois: University of Illinois Press.

Subject: RE: Origin: John, the Piper's Son
From: Richie
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 08:53 PM

Here are some notes from Wikipedia;

Even these (verses from Old Dan Tucker) seem to partially derive from an earlier minstrel song called "Walk Along John" or "Oh, Come Along John", first published in various songsters in the early 1840s. Some verses have clear echoes in versions of "Old Dan Tucker":

Johnny law on de rail road track,
He tied de engine on his back;
He pair's his corn wid a rail road wheel,
It gib 'em de tooth ache in de heel.

Subject: Origin: John, the Piper's Son
From: Richie
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 07:30 PM

Hi,

While search for "Sugar Hill" I found this in Christy's Nigga Songster:

CUM ALONG JOHN, THE PIPER'S SON
Christy's Nigga Songster
As Sung By Christy's, Pierce's, White's and Dumbleton's Minstrels
New York: T. W. Strong, c. 1850

All de wa from ole Karlina,
For to see my old ant Dinah,
Says I, ole lady, how's de Goose,
Jay bird jump on de Martin's rooze.

CHORUS Den cum along John, oh, cum along John,
Den cum all along John, de piper's son,
Aint you mity glad your works most done.

Behine de hen hous on my knee,
Tinks I hear de chicken sneeze,
Turkey plaughin hard on de punkin vine,
Goose chaw backer and duck drink wine.

Den cum along, &c.

Milk in de dary nine days old,
Rat an' skipper gitin mity bole,
Long tail rat in a pail ob souse,
Jes cum down from de wite fokes house.

Den cum along, &c.

A Wurginny nigger raised a hog,
Mak his kanue out ob de log,
He put kanue into de water,
Go your deff, I see your darter.

Den cum along, &c.

I hadn't seen her haf a day,
Tell my missus I did say,
Shy at first, but soon got larkin,
Wurginny galls am deff at sparkin.

Den cum along, &c.

Massa sent me out a singin',
Dat war de fust of my beginnin',
Shake de double [illegible]immen quiber,
Bust de banjo all to shibber.

Den cum along, &c.

Way down souf on de beever kreek,
De nigga grows 'bout ten feet,
Dey go to bed wid al dar clothes on,
Dere legs hang out for chicken to roost on.

Den cum along, &c.

Nigga get up about haf ded,
Wid a hundred weight chicken on him leg,
An dey start off for de barn,
Ole cock crows, de young wuns larn.

Den cum along, &c.

Besides the obvious racial content and spelling errors, I was wondering where this song originated. Some of the lines/verses have appeared in Sing Song Kitty, and other songs (Limber Jim).


Howard Finster from Georgia does a song called John, John the Piper's Son. There's also a nursery rhyme:

Tom, Tom the Piper's son,
Stole a pig and away he run;
The pig was eat
And Tom was beat,
And Tom went howling down the street.

Any ideas?