Tech: I'm using XP Pro and

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 11:13 AM

Aaarrrr, Jim lad!!

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: GUEST,Jolly Roger
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 11:11 AM

There's a little .exe file foating around on the internet - wink wink,

called "WPA kill" Just In case you get fed up begging Microsh*te for activation.
#
And yes, it DOES work.

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 10:29 AM

Surely you're not suggesting anything sinister about that nice Mr. Gates?!

;0)

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Mr Yellow
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 10:24 AM

If Mr Gates invites you to upgrade anything on-line - you better have a good reason to - Mr Gates words sure ain't good enough. Quite the opposite.

Oh and if you have any AV, Ad Aware, Firewalls or the like - never upgrade until you have switched them off. And if you are on-line you shouldn't. Self defeating innit? If it works don't try and improve it.


XP is constantly reporting back to dear William on the status of your s/w - he is snooping, and to justify it he offers upgrades which in many cases actually make things unusable like IE7. And the only person he is trying to help is himself. Be warned.

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 10:08 AM

John, here in the UK I can buy OEM copies because I have an account with my local computer component shop, and I'm known to them as a computer builder. The 'rule' is that I should buy hardware at the same time as the OEM copy to qualify, although they aren't too insistent as I'm in there regularly.

It is a genuine, sealed copy complete with case sticker and genuine CD Rom, but no manuals, retail packaging, etc. Nothing dodgy! It does make me first in line for Tech Support on those machines that I sell or upgrade. It has never been a problem, though.

I think that you need to be a registered 'Microsoft Partner' to get the academic versions, but I may be wrong.

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 06:18 AM

There seems to be an echo in here... :-)

That sort of stuff (and the spyware in XP) is why I have stuck with 98SE (and I still have a couple of legal working 95 machines round here that one day I plan to turn into a linux firewalls, etc).

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 05:25 AM

THat sort of stuff (and the spyware in XP) is why I have stuck with 98SE and Me (and I still ahve a working 95 machine round here that one day I plan to turn into a linux firewall).

It influenced my software decisions too. I can boot Win2K but mostly run Linux.

What have you against trying a full Linux installation?

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 10:47 PM

You're not really supposed to be able to buy an OEM XP separate from the computer, so even if they're on "genuine" disks those are probably somewhat suspect. If they're leftovers from a builder who went out of business, they could be technically legal; but there's no builder to supply tech support, so they should be cheaper than usual. Microsoft won't provide tech support for OEM versions.

Lots of OEM builders make fairly significant changes to the OS to suit the particular hardware they're using and/or just on "whims and fancies," so "escaped" copies may not be plain vanilla XP.

Academic licensed XP copies are rarely seen here, so far as I know. The local college book store doesn't generally stock them. If you do find them, they'll likely be the FRP package at about 30% off(?).

Academic Office programs are more common, but I have no idea what the discounts might be.

The best deal is the Microsoft Employee discount rate which runs about 10 cents on the dollar; but they won't give that even to in-house contractors or temp employees.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 03:58 PM

I've seen OEM (genuine I think) XP pro for as little as £75 here in UK, and FRP seems to be about £375!

I'm eligible for academic versions since I teach at two universities, but I can't find a deecent price on that.

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 03:08 PM

We've had at least a couple of regulars here who have had a problem with the verification on their Windows. I think in the cases reported it was because a builder/seller had cloned copies without paying paying for the license to do it.

Some people stuck with a counterfeit copy can get a free replacement or activation. Some others may be offered a "reduced cost" valid copy. Some others may just S.O.L.. In order to get a "fix" for a counterfeit copy you usually do have to "cooperate" by filling out a questionairre and indentifying the counterfeiter. If you're technically the counterfeiter, as with a new motherboard, Microsoft may allow reactivation if the new board is nominally equivalent to the old one, and the original OEM isn't available to replace with an identical one.

Copies preinstalled by an OEM builder are considered "part of the machine" so you're not allowed to put them on another machine. If you need personal support, the OEM builder is expected to supply it; and Microsoft won't in most cases.

A "corporate user" can get a license to use the OS on a certain number of machines, and is free to swap machines as long as the total number of licenses (seats) purchased isn't exceeded. A corporate licensee is expected to be able to provide the support for all his/her own machines. (This license isn't usually "economical" for fewer than about 10 machines.)

An individual user who buys the software separately from a retailer gets an "FRP" license (Full Retail Package) and can put it on any machine, or move it from one to another, as long as it's only on one machine at a time. Microsoft will provide support directly to FRP users, for a limited time or "for fee" after.

The last time I looked, the "FRP" package was about 30% more expensive than what a small OEM builder would pay per copy for what the builder pre-installs. Larger builders probably get a pretty hefty additional discount.

Even for OEM licensed users, Microsoft often will provide some direct support for problems related to updates, and most people find that the KB articles are quicker than going "personally" to Microsoft or the OEM for most problems, but choosing an OEM builder that's able to provide support, should you need it, is part of making the choice.

An unvalidated copy will "terminate itself" after a certain number of reboots. Microsoft says it will still run, but certain functions will be locked out. They give no indication of which functions are disallowed, but probably lots of people are running that way and don't know it.

Microsoft will still provide CRITICAL updates for unvalidated copies, but you can't get them automatically. You have to connect and ask for them. You can't get the optional updates without being validated.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 01:23 PM

My case was similar to Bernard's first - after I rebuilt the machine (I think) I was told that I'd exceeded reactivations and was told to telephone. When I did telephone there was no problem - they asked for the key and that was all.

Mick

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 12:50 PM

Nope, Cluin, no tape drive... 5¼ and 3½ floppies, though. EGA colour video card, too. Oh, and a keyboard you can knock nails in with!

The hard drive is a Miniscribe RLL - they had two ribbon cables and a controller card. Remember low level formatting?! Such a small drive, yet it was an overnight job!

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:59 AM

is this the same as SiSoft Sandra? I have heard of it for years, but never felt the need.

From what I gather, it is a good diagnostic program.

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Cluin
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:31 AM

That is quite a bit of hardware on an XT, Bernard. Got a tape drive with it?

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:15 AM

If you purchase a package, which is a PC with XP pre-installed as an OEM at a bargain price, then changing the main board may result in your not being able to reactivate XP - although I have not yet found it to be so. Perhaps it's advertising hype?

I have recently changed boards on Advent (PCWorld own brand) and HP PCs for people.

I was able to source a similar MSI board to the original Advent had used, so it booted from the hard drive. Then it insisted on activation. I tried to do it online, but it refused. So I rang Micro$haft and explained. They asked me for the product key from the sticker on the case, gave me a code to input manually, and it was fine.

I couldn't find a near match for the HP board (also an MSI), so put in a completely different board and processor. It wouldn't boot, of course, so I ran an OEM copy of an XP disk (the system restore wouldn't recognise the board), and used the code from the case sticker. It installed and activated successfully, and updates correctly.

Like you, I still have Win95, Win98 and WinME machines for testing websites, etc. I also have a Win 3.11 machine, too! Somewhere I also have a working XT running MSDOS 3.3! It has a 30Mb hard drive and 1Mb of memory...!!

Maybe the second of the two examples isn't strictly within the terms of the licence agreement...

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 09:20 AM

Frankly I think that refusing to reactivate if you change the MB and processor is an unacceptable restrictive trade practice...

THat sort of stuff (and the spyware in XP) is why I have stuck with 98SE and Me (and I still ahve a working 95 machine round here that one day I plan to turn into a linux firewall).

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: scouse
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 06:29 AM

Thanks Guys, gettin' regular updates so I have no need to worry!!! Ta once again for the swift reply..I don't know where I'd be without you lot!!
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 01:14 PM

A google for "Sandra.Lite" finds a whole bunch of download sites, but very little description. The first 3 sites I tried to connect to were blocked by my IE7 as "unsafe sites." I did not attempt to override at those sites.

One cnet site reprints the maker's description, which tells me very little about what the the program is intended to do; but does not describe anything "neat, keen, super" or "useful" that WinXP users can't do simply by clicking Start|Programs|Accessories|System Accessories|System Information.

One other site warned that "downloading this version will disable your product activation" - which means you will be unable to get updates to your Windows and Office programs. Whether you can uninstall the program and renew the activation is not indicated.

The same site claimed that "we have scanned your system to determine the correct version to download" but iff it did so it did it without asking for my permisssion. Even Microsoft doesn't do that, and it is considered a "spyware/malware indicator" by most of the antimalware people.

So just out of curiosity: WHY did you think you needed to download it?

John

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 12:41 PM

Ooops! That should have read 'download ANY updates'...!

Next time I'll take me gloves off...

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 12:39 PM

Every version of XP (and other Micro$haft software) uses 'product activation technology'.

Billy got tired of losing a fortune to pirates, even though it probably only made a slight dint in his profits.

So a new method of validating copies of Windows was dreamed up - after installation you are prompted to activate your copy.

If you are using a genuine version it will 'activate' successfully (usually!), otherwise a message pops up explaining that you haven't got a genuine copy, and so cannot activate, so goodbye! If you don't activate within 30 days you are locked out anyway.

Corporate versions and OEM versions on many branded PCs have this validation already activated, so the user is unaware of it.

Needless to say, people have found ways of bypassing the activation...

If your version is genuine, there's nothing to worry about. If you have a pirate copy with the activation bypassed, you won't be able to download and updates.

However, if you have a pirate copy, Micro$haft will allow you to convert it to a genuine copy if you part with some cash...

We may not agree with Billy's ethics, but those of us who pay for a genuine copy have a right to use it, and to know that the parasites who won't pay are being penalised.

There is an argument which says that piracy puts up the price for the honest end users, and software prices would come down if piracy were stopped. We all know that is true, now don't we, children?!!! Hah!!

Subject: RE: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 12:27 PM

It's a standard XP thing - it needs activating to use it. If you've been using XP for a long time you've probably already activated it (IIRC you get 30 days after first use to activate it). Here's an article on it: Windows XP Product Activation

You shouldn't worry about it (unless you make major changes that might require reactivation - I mostly rebuilt my system a year or so ago and had to telephone to get a new activation. I probably couldn't do that now - I changed the motherboard and processor and I think that counts as a new machine now!).

Mick

Subject: Tech: I'm using XP Pro and
From: scouse
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 11:55 AM

Hi Guys,I'm XpPro user and downloaded a nice little program called Sandra lite. It tells me... quote"This copy of windows contains Product Activation Technology." Any one know what this means??? Does Billy Gates
have some secret switch to turn me off!!!Can I turn the thing off?? Should I be worried!!!
As Aye,
Phil.