BS: Privacy, Rights and Electronics

Subject: Privacy, Rights and Electronics
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 08:27 PM

EP / PRIVACY IN ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS
EP CIVIL LIBERTIES COMMITTEE APPROVES CAPPATO REPORT

Brussels, 11 July 2001 – The EP Civil Liberties Committee approved today the report by Marco Cappato (Radical MEP of the Lista Bonino) on the draft EU Commission proposal for a directive on privacy in electronic communications, with 22 votes in favour, 12 against and 5 abstentions, under the co-decision procedure.

Declaration by Marco Cappato:

"The Civil liberties committee expressed itself in favour of a strict regulation of law enforcement authorities' access to personal data of citizens, such as communication traffic and location data. This decision is fundamental because in this way the EP blocks EU States' efforts underway in the Council to put their citizens under generalised and pervasive surveillance, following the Echelon model. The decision of leaving to Member States the choice between opt-in and opt-out systems on electronic commercial communications is a liberal approach that respects subsidiarity, and that takes into consideration freedom of expression (prohibiting "hidden" spamming) and the different experiences of the Member States".

_____________________________________________________________

After 200 years, the European community has learned a deep respect for individual privacy and freedom that our own government seems bent on forgetting as it gravitates away from the model of an enlightened Democratic Republic and into a profit-seeking and deal-turning Corporate Management paradigm for its insights into Right Government.

Perhaps we could start a grass-rrots movement in sunny Portugal to adopt English as a separate but equasl language, and go pursue the higher goals of civilization over there for a few lifetimes, eh Brutus?

Just kidding; but here there is food for reflection, as the man said when he threw the ham sandwich at the full-length mirror....

Regards,

A

Subject: RE: BS: Privacy, Rights and Electronics
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 10:43 PM

Thanks for posting Amos..........I think you said it for me.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Privacy, Rights and Electronics
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 10:59 PM

Amos, I'm not really sure where we are going over here but perhaps, people in the US have just quoted things like the whatever amendments for too long without really thinking about what goes on.

During our growing up, perhaps you lot have just been saying "Yeh Freedom, America is Great..." guess it happens in a powerful successful country that was based on those principles...

Don't really know, just wanted to throw it in the pot as it was something one of my brothers suggested to me after visiting the US a few years ago... Almost like "lovely friendly people but they are brainwashed - they talk about freedom and what makes America great - but...".

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Privacy, Rights and Electronics
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:13 PM

Anyone who studies smear campaigns and "black" PR techniques used to discredit rivals has seen the trick of managing public mind-set by redefining terms. If you can start a wave of agreement going wherein people will accept that the word "hero" actually means "sucker for capitalist manipulation blinded by empty phrases into acting out his own psychotic side....", why then you can get anyone who was once called a hero knocked right out of the picture without attacking them directly. Clever stunt.

Thus, culturally, we gradually grew more and more convinced that the most important face of freedom was the right to choose among shampoos, ISPs and cable providers, colors of cars or preferences in cheaply done mass humor shows.

This was not, I think, the scope of the concept as it was felt to be when the amazing words linked to this thread were first written or spoken or thought or felt. I believe their meaning, when using the word, carried much wider horizons, and more sacred overtones than are even imagined today -- or so it often seems.

A

"___________________________________________

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant.
We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.

~Albert Einstein

Subject: RE: BS: Privacy, Rights and Electronics
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:26 PM

Amos, I read the Declaration of Independance for the first time as a result of you starting that thread and felt it was a great document and I agree with your assessment.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Privacy, Rights and Electronics
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 12:18 AM

on:

I am absolutely touched by your message. Thank you so much!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Privacy, Rights and Electronics
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 08:15 AM

Interestingly enough, if you wish to be termed a "Radical" just try quoting the US constitution today. Of course the Constitution was written by people who cared enough about the future of their country, to be honest and forthright enough to establish something relevant. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Privacy, Rights and Electronics
From: Mike Byers
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 08:50 AM

For an interesting (and somewhat frightening) review of some common on-line privacy invasion techniques currently in use, take a look at the current issue of Maximum PC magazine. This seems to be driven by commercial rather than political interests, but is nonetheless an increasing problem that I think will contine to get worse, at least here in the US where it's becoming more and more difficult to distinguish political interests from commercial agendas.

Subject: RE: BS: Privacy, Rights and Electronics
From: GUEST,Fed up
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 09:21 AM

Mike Byers,

I agree with what you say about the current driving force behind on-line privacy invasion technology being commercial--but only as it regards individual consumers, and corporations spying on competitors.

But to say there doesn't currently appear to be abuses by "political interests" seems pretty naive. Political interests are also driving the commercial development of the technology for their own self-intersts, and have for many years.

Just because we can't see what they are doing, doesn't mean they aren't doing anything with the information gathering spy technology.

Considering the really blatant thumb nosing the Bush administration is doing towards things like the ABM treaty, etc. is proof enough for me they've got enough ammunition gathered and stockpiled already to smear anyone in the US and everywhere else in the world, right on up to European leaders who are opposed to new missile program. They will engage in smear campaigns to discredit the opposition in any way they believe necessary to flush the ABM treaty into oblivion, and start a new arms race. Donald Rumsfeld wants to make lots of money for their weapons manufacturer business cronies. One of the biggest moneymaking industries in the world.

We just can't see what information they have gathered, or even figure out how they are using it. They have the veil of "national security interests" to hide behind, and give them immunity from prosecution you and I would face if we did same.

Watergate, Pentagon Papers, etc. were all infamous cases before the advent of millions of people coming on-line. Now, they don't even have to try as hard to dig dirt, because people are revealing private and personal information about themselves in forums like this which can easily be used to discredit them in the court of public opinion, as well as in courts of law.

Same methods are being used now, as were used against Daniel Ellsberg (remember the Pentagon Papers?), ie his private mental health records, to discredit him. Just newer technology is all.

All

Subject: RE: BS: Privacy, Rights and Electronics
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 10:23 PM

FEDERAL JUDGE SAYS SEARCHES OF CAMPUS COMPUTERS ARE LEGAL

U.S. District Court Judge D. Brock Hornby ruled in June that the right to privacy does not extend to information stored on public computers at colleges and universities. In the case in question, University of Southern Maine student Frederick W. Butler Jr. was charged following the discovery of child pornography on public computers he had used at the university.

Butler said the university's search of the computers' records was a violation of his rights under the Fourth Amendment, but Hornby ruled that Butler never had a reasonable expectation that the records were or would be private. George Washington University professor of law Jeffrey Rosen agreed with the decision though he expressed concern over its implications. "If the computers are being made available to everyone, [university officials] wouldn't even have to warn that they were monitoring before they could install tracking software."