Re-learning left hand technique

Subject: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 07:47 PM

I first started learning guitar about 40 years ago. Like almost all steel string players I know I took the line of least resistance, so to speak, and gripped the guitar neck sort of like you do a baseball bat...that is, I brought my thumb up around the side of the neck and rested the neck against the palm of my hand while forming the chords. It seemed okay to me.

This, in spite of the fact that my guitar teacher, who was classically trained, tried hard to get me to learn the classical position (thumb under the neck...nothing at all touching the neck except the relaxed thumb (which acts as a pivot) and the fingertips that are forming the chord). The fingertips apply the necessary pressure.

Nope, I was lazy. I did it the way practically everyone I know does it because it seemed much easier at the time.

Now I find that it is causing pain in some of my fingers and limiting what I can do...so I decided to rethink the whole thing and heed my guitar teacher's advice from 40 years ago!

For about 5 days now I have been playing my steel string in classical position (for the left hand, I mean). And it's working! I am slowly convincing my subconscious to let go of the old left hand patterning and take on a new one. Whew. It takes some doing.

I do find now that my fingers are far better positioned, not angled so much, and I'm less likely to unintentionally fog out some notes and get fatigued. I can reach farther and the notes are cleaner. I just have to pay a LOT of attention to what I'm doing, because the old habits keep wanting to creep in when I don't.

Has anyone else taken on this particular challenge lately? Just wondering.

* Spaw, try to resist making comments here about techniques for whacking off, okay? ;-D I need NO help at all in mastering that particular discipline...not even from an expert such as...well, I'll say no more.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 07:53 PM

After ignoring the guitar for over two decades, I HEAR YOU and feel your pain. All I can say is you have my admiration, because my guitar teacher from 48 years ago told me much the same thing. I listened to him. BUT, I went on to forget exactly WHERE my fingers were supposed to go, so there I was four years ago with great technique and no friggin' idea where to put my fingers to make chords. Keep at it, LH. It'll happen.

B

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:17 PM

Doing just the same thing, for slightly different reasons, LH. I've scrapped my old 2" neck guitar and turned to a one-and-three-quarter-inch-neck dreadnaught. I need more precise placement of the fingertips , the guitar being much more responsive than the old one.
And yes, my fingers are getting stiffer, too. The last finger-joint won't take the angles of yore. I've been playing half-heartedly for the same sort of period.

I used to be able to remember the words much more easily, too.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: michaelr
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:19 PM

Keep in mind that "classical position" also means that (assuming you're right-handed) the waist of the guitar sits on your left thigh (elevated by a footstool) with the neck pointing upward at about a 45-degree angle and your lower arm almost vertical. This will reduce fatigue and make it much easier to keep the thumb behind the neck.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:27 PM

Yes, I've given that some thought, michael. I'm not that fond of the classical position for sitting...although I'm trying it out some, and have sort of partially adjusted to it as far as how the arms are positioned.

When I play standing, though, the guitar is positioned just right, just as you describe it. And, yes, it does help to reduce fatigue and keep the thumb behind the neck.

You have to wonder about those "cool" young rockers who play the guitar hanging down around their knees... ;-) Talk about BAD position! But it looks sooooo coooool.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:29 PM

I was 'Self taught' , and never bothered with Barre Chords - Used to play a Five String F Major , for example !
Then I 'slightly' smashed my left wrist (19 fractures and dislocations , according to the Doc) and had to start from scratch , three months after buying my Martin D35 !
Bloody hard work , but about eighteen months later I was able to give up the day job for a six month gig playing guitar etc in Bermudaa , and Barre Chords are now NOT a problem !
Good Luck and keep with it !

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:05 PM

99, 100, ... oops..

I know where the door is.... :-P

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:09 PM

Change Hands !!! LOL

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:11 PM

Sorry LH, do you really think Fools take any notice of what others say?

:-)

There is much wisdom in the so called 'Classical methods' of doing almost anything - much accumulated wisdom and experience, so I have little sympathy for those so clever that they deride those of us who spent much time learning Music that way, hundreds of hours of scales, and Hannon.... :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Virtuoso_Pianist_in_60_Exercises

The Virtuoso Pianist (Le Piano virtuose) by Charles-Louis Hanon

First Published 1873....

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:16 PM

Yup, you got it right. It's pretty incredible that I had to put off learning this for 40 years...but better late than never.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:24 PM

Cutting Corners when learning means Cutting Ability when playing !!

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:27 PM

Yep -

Hanon

"The exercises address common problems which could hamper the performance abilities of a student. These include "crossing of the thumb," strengthening of the fourth and fifth fingers, and quadruple- and triple-trills. The exercises are meant to be individually mastered and then played consecutively in the sections they are placed in. Apart from increasing technical abilities of the student, when played in groups at higher speeds, the exercises will also help to increase endurance."

Of course

"One pitfall is that practising the Hanon exercises with imperfect technique will reinforce the technique errors via endless repetition. Students who don't apply the requisite keen technical meticulousness to their study of these exercises (or who lack qualified and diligent teachers) may risk 'burning in' their technical errors. More seriously, poor technique, especially when exacerbated by narrow repetition, can give rise to repetitive stress injuries - to which pianists are notoriously susceptible."

But of course if you have already been playing the guitar that way for years... ;-)

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:30 PM

BTW

The Virtuoso Pianist (Hanon, Charles-Louis) PDF files, Parts 1,2 & 3

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:32 PM

Oh - and

Complete Hanon For The Accordion
Adapted by Charles Nunzio.
Sam Fox Publishing Company, Inc.,
New York, 1941. 88 pages.
The famous Hanon Piano Course adapted for the Piano Accordion: highlighting technique, velocity, special bass rhythms etc. Essential basic studies for the serious student of the Instrument.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:36 PM

One of the links for a Hanon based Guitar method

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 01:18 AM

I have always said that proper guitar technique is all about being lazy--the whole point is to find a way to do the most with the least possible effort.

A lot of people don't see it that way, and figure that you're not really playing unless your knuckles are white, your fingers are twisted in knots, and you're frantically pounding the fingerboard. Some of them throw in tortured facial expressions, too.

My thought is that if it hurts, you haven't got it right.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 02:20 AM

"Some of them throw in tortured facial expressions, too. My thought is that if it hurts, you haven't got it right. "

Perhaps you should change hands... :-P



I'll get me hat....

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 09:09 AM

And don't forget your coat... ;-)

M.Ted - Very good points.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 10:44 AM

Hi leadfingers

I am like you. Self taught many moons ago.
However I managed to devise a kind of "hybrid" style in that I held the neck with my thumb wrapped around it but when I wanted to use barre chords I learned to slide my thumb into almost the classical position.

I got by very well like this although I know that this is not necessarily the best way to do it.

Then some years ago when I was almost 50 I was asked by my rugby club to take part in a charity game where many ex players turned out a side to play game with our colts team.( I know....I know....)

I stupidly agreed and during this game a young 18 year old mountain stamped on my left hand and broke several bones in it.

After some time in plaster the casing was removed and when I tried to straighten out my fingers I found that the index finger wouldn't do so from the knuckle nearest the nail.

The doctor smiled and said something like "Oh dear we will have to re-break that and re-set it."

After he ducked and listened to yards of invective he retired gracefully leaving me to ponder on whether I wanted to take his advice.

I refused it because I needed to have the full ( or near full, use of my hands again.)

Some time after this I came to pick up my guitar and found that after some practice I could get back to where I was before EXCEPT that now whether I employed my thumb under the neck or around it I just couldn't manage any barre chords anymore.

I get by by playing half barres and some gymnastics with my left hand.

I am now trying to re-learn right back from basics but I still have problems with the barre......

However the exercise hasn't been totally useless I have improved my chording in other ways and I have speeded up my solos by sheer practice.

I am also learning to play the keyboard and have similar problems caused by not learning properly when I dabbled with this instrument some years ago. But at least I don't have to make barres on this....lol

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 12:52 PM

LH, you have inspired me to try to improve my playing position.

These videos give a picture of the correct position, and I find that helpful:

http://www.ehow.com/video_2380322_introduction-classical-guitar.html

I had never heard before that the nut should be about eye level. That tip alone eliminates a lot of uncertainty.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 01:15 PM

Yes, that's right about the nut being at about eye level. It's a handy way of checking for the right position.

MikeL2 - You said "However I managed to devise a kind of "hybrid" style in that I held the neck with my thumb wrapped around it but when I wanted to use barre chords I learned to slide my thumb into almost the classical position."

That's not a hybrid position. It's exactly what everyone does if they normally play open string chords with the thumb wrapped around the side of the neck. The nature of a bar chord forces you to put your thumb behind the neck in the proper (classical) position. It's virtually impossible to do a bar chord any other way as far as I know. What you are describing in your "hybrid" style is exactly the way I used to play and what I am now training myself not to do.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:15 PM

Years ago, Davy Graham's 'Anji' was reckoned to be 'A Level' guitar.
Can it be played with the thumb in the classical position?

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:21 PM

Make that 'Angi.' And see Will Fly's video on Youtube to see what I mean.

I never could get the baserun.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Y_Not
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:26 PM

Just shut up you soft soft F### and PLAY and PLAY and PLAY...

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:42 PM

The important thing here is that the left hand should be in a position that allows the thumb to leverage the finger movements without twisting, straining, or stretching the wrist.

In addition to positioning the neck so that the nut is between shoulder and eye level, it's also
better if the neck is at a 45° angle to your chest, and that your left hand does not support the neck in any way.

If you're playing a classical guitar, the body should rest on your left leg, but that doesn't always work with a steel string, because they can have a different size and shape. This is why we have straps--so you can put the body where you need it without needing a leg to support it.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: John P
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:18 PM

I had to relearn the positions of both hands a few years back due to serious tendonitis in both wrists. I've learned to keep my wrists straight, which seems to be the biggest help. I think I'm somewhere between classical position and rocker penis-guitar position, but the pain flare-ups are rare and easily managed now.

I also had to learn to hold my pick differently, which was the hardest part. It turns out that, for me at least, part of knowing a tune is hand position and pick grip. New tunes were easy to learn with a better position. Tunes I already knew had to be learned over practically from scratch. The occupational therapist asked me where it hurt in my right hand and then said, "I bet you hold your pick like this, don't you?" She actually made me a brace that forced my hand into a non-destructive position.

I also finally figured out that I can play faster, more accurately, and less painfully if I don't lift the fingers of my left hand any farther than necessary to let the string ring. I used to move them an inch or more just lifting them up and putting them down. Now I move them quarter inch or less.

I was just diagnosed with arthritis in my left thumb a couple of months ago. Fortunately, it means I have more trouble picking up coins than playing the guitar, but a couple of hours of hard playing leaves me sore for a couple of days. It sometimes means I don't rehearse at all between gigs. Argh!

John

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:38 PM

Gurney - I'm sure there are a few specific riffs in certain songs that do not work well with the thumb in the classical position. Fine. No one says it must always be in the classical position...it's just better for your overall playing technique if it is usually there, rather than hanging around the side of the neck. For certain riffs you must hang the thumb around the side of the neck in order to press down the 6th string with it...in that case, it's perfectly all right to do so, I would think.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: GUEST,Mark Pavey
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:21 AM

Davy always played with his thumb in the classical position. He always held that the classical technique is the only way to play properly and develop.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 02:30 PM

You need to be able to use both positions, as and when appropriate. Sticking rigidly to either regardless is just silly.

It's a bit like people who refuse to use a capo - or who use capos as a reason to never bother to learn any chord positioins that aren't in first position.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 03:43 PM

That's right. Flexibility is much superior to living by rigid rules.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 04:30 PM

"that's right about the nut being at about eye level"

M'lud, the prosecution rests.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: GUEST,Mark Pavey
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 06:55 AM

Using the thumb to fret certainly gives you a fifth card, but it can severely limit the movement of the other four main cards.

Duck Baker does it effectively, but he's worked so much on "unionising" his left hand that it works. Sadly so many guitarists think that anything goes and have just cramped up their left hand for the sake of occasionally using their thumb to raise a third in the bass. I used to do that myself. I just don't think that you can continue to improve like that; without a classical default position.

Davy in later years maintained that using a capo was bad in that it prevents understanding, i.e its not good to play in B-flat and think in terms of another key. Yet he extensively used capos on his early records. By the later mid-sixties he had stopped doing this all together and you can certainly hear the benefits of this in his playing. The music develops to a conclusion. Davy always said that the ascents are more valuable than the descents..   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZWtNYDz1So

If you compare it with this example of Ralph Mctell playing (which is really just a very simple cocaine blues picking accompaniment pattern, masquerading as an instrumental): the music just seems to start out as it finishes. As Davy used to remind me; perfection is only mediocrity. Just not very good is even worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c6evjH_Oh4&feature=related

In the case of Anji, Davy's original version is special partly for the control of the index finger on the descending bass, and the ascending ornamentations which are led by the pinkie... In later years he played it without the capo and further embellished it.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 08:46 AM

The guitar is a complex instrument - even more complex than a piano keyboard. It is also deceptive - using styles (word chosen carefully for semantic reasons!) such as a capo base style limit one related as to what possibilities are available on the instrument due to its design & structure. You could replace 'style' with 'philosophy' to help you think of what meaning I intend. :-)

You see, with a capo, you are restricted to a cycle of relative chord positions that are always the same, no matter what relative pitch they are started in. It's sorta like dropping a frame over a piano keyboard, and you can only use what chord structures the frame allows - using an unrestricted (non-capo) style is like removing the frame from the keyboard, allowing an almost infinite (within the total limited universe the guitar provides) selection of chordal structure. Actually it's a bit like - for slightly different reasons - an autoharp - but which has a different philosophy in its design and construction

"Folkie styles" are always restricted in concept - by intentional design - if you move outside this structure, you get different things - of course... :-)

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 08:51 AM

Having learned the left hand twice now and how to play guitar three times I have some personal discoveries. Like many of us my best friend showed me chord and hand me a guitar and I made the chord and strummed the guitar and I was a folksinger. I could read the dots in the chord box OK but the song books never showed me how to do it. Just what to do. But utilizing a lot of flawed technique I made a lot of music for quite awhile.

Crushing my right wrist caused me to have to wait for therapy and reconstructive surgery to take place. About a year in a cast. I became a better singer in that time. Five years to the very day after the wrist injury I cut off a few fingers in table saw accident. These were reattached and the real therapy began. I used an auto harp to gain strength and mobility and make those wreaked fingers work again.

Scar tissues are so evident that index and middle left reach open and close about forty percent. Neither is straight and they don't go where they are aimed. It is nearly impossible to play barre chords.

I find that after years of experimentation I play passably well if I use the purest form of classical postural technique I can. It works out to be good body dynamic. Thumb well down on the back allows me to reach the bass strings where my fingers won't stretch to otherwise. Holding the guitar at about 40 degrees gives me an attack that is perpendicular to the strings. I suppose better late than never but next time if I had a choice it would be the right hand I bitched and not the left.

Don

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 09:51 AM

Interesting stuff, guys. I agree that playing up and down the neck without a capo, as opposed to using one, will eventually lead to a far more interesting and varied playing style with superior possibilities to get the most out of the instrument...nevertheless, I'll think I'll stick with using the capo for now. ;-) After all, I'm mainly a singer, not a guitar virtuoso, and as long as I can provide a nice rythm section with the guitar that's good enough for me.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 11:12 AM

This is going great. I've only been at it for about a week now, I guess, but I'm getting pretty comfortable with classical position. I don't allow myself to play the old way at all at the moment, because I'm determined to re-program my hand to automatically go for classical position without even thinking about it.

It's definitely better this way, everything is cleaner and more accurate, no more strain on the fingers...now why did I not listen to my teacher Matthew Clark 40 years ago when he told me to do it this way? ;-)

Anyone who thinks they can't change their old guitar-playing habits...don't tell yourself that! You definitely can do it. Just persist, that's all. Practice every single day and persist.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: GUEST,Mark Pavey
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 12:04 PM

You get in trouble when you start to think you're getting good. The achievement is getting continuing to get better everyday. The really good players have always done that, of course this wouldn't be news to most other instrumentalists, but as guitarists we should probably start to view our practice more as a form of musical athleticism. If we seek to make the guitar easier by compromise we get further and further from the difficulties we try to master.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 12:06 PM

Great thread it all makes sense until I try and implement it. Then comes the cacophony.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: meself
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 12:24 PM

I've been toying with the idea of wimping over to a classical i.e. nylon-strung guitar - after all, Willie Nelson gets away with it. Seems to me a lot of the early (1950s) Canadian "folk-singers" (e.g., Oscar Brand) used them. I can't recall ever playing one, although I must have picked one up and messed around on it at some point in my long and frivolous life.

Any thoughts on the plusses and minusses, pros and cons, antis and uncles of the nylon-string-strung-as-opposed-to-steel-string-strung guitar?

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: GUEST,Mark Pavey
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 12:30 PM

You shouldn't be freaked out by the cacophony; it will pass.   
If you put all your effort into ignoring a weakness then you can't hope to develop any true strength.
It initially seems like bad news when you realise that you have to put away all your accumulated years of undisciplined playing as if all those efforts were for nothing and become a beginner again.
There is a great dawning that takes place though when you realise you get to "begin" again and all your mistake/hang-ups/limitations seem like someone else's.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 12:45 PM

Nylon string guitars can sound wonderful if they are played properly, and there are some out there now with great electronic pickup systems in them. In general, though, I'd say they are much more suited to picking than they are to strumming. I've almost always played steel string, but I appreciate nylon strings too, and I admire those who can really play them the way they need to be played.

Melanie always used a nylon string guitar, didn't she? (actually, I think she is still out there performing). What about Leonard Cohen? Didn't he used to play on a nylon string guitar in concerts?

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: GUEST,Mark Pavey
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 01:01 PM

Davy always had a nylon string guitar around. When I first met him the only instrument he had was a cheap Hohner classical. He'd been burgled some years before and it was all he had been able to afford. It was an awful instrument. He loved it.
He said that the Nylon Guitar should be seen as the feminine instrument and the Steel Acoustic as the masculine one. We bought some better classical guitars at the time but they didn't swing as well as I'd hoped. Davy didn't care much as he was more interested in his classical and untempered studies in any case.
Later; too late in fact, I discovered that a flamenco nylon string guitar, as a folk instrument, would have been much better for him. All DG's nylon stuff on the seventies albums had been done on a Ramirez Flamenco guitar. Duck Baker uses a Manuel Rodriguez flamenco guitar.
The classical technique and melodic and harmonic principle combined with the folk approach
is what Davy left to all of us. I still think its the future of music that people will want to listen to. The trouble is its hard to achieve!

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 02:53 PM

hi meself

I tried a nylon stringed guitar I picked up in Spain. I just couldn't get along with it....though I have to say that I didn't try to hard at the time.

Like others here I regret not persisting longer.

The thing that I had problems with was that the neck on the instrument I had was very wide making the strings much wider apart than on my steel stringed guitars. I have quiet small hands and my attempts to work with the nylon were not pretty.

As I was playing semi-pro in those days I really couldn't afford to take the time away from gigs to completely change my style. Looking back I think that was just laziness on my part.

I am struggling to make up now but certainly haven't mastered the classical technique as I automatically just slide back into the way I know.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 02:57 PM

I find the very wide neck on classical guitars bothersome too. I'd prefer a nylon string guitar with a neck about halfway between the width of a steel string neck and the usual classical setup.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 03:19 PM

Single notes, scales, and harmonized parts tend to work better on a classical guitar. Also, complex and subtle rhythms, such as those found in flamenco, bossa nova, and samba, can be developed more fully on classical/nylon string guitar because there are a lot of different ways to strike the strings.

When you move over from a steel string guitar, though, it takes a while to learn how to strike the strings, and the wider, shorter, neck takes some getting used to--

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 03:22 PM

It's kind of like taking off your work boots and putting on slippers.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 04:03 PM

I wear boots outdoors and change into sleepers indoors much of the time. Sticking to either all the time would seem a bit daft.

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 04:10 PM

Yes, and most women will object strenuously if you wear your work boots in bed...not unreasonably, in my opinion. ;-)

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 04:35 PM

And yet you take that noisy old Martin everywhere..

Subject: RE: Re-learning left hand technique
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 05:43 PM

It can't be beat, that's why. It's a Martin HD-28, nice herring bone trim, incredible sound. Still the best guitar I've ever had, and it's a newer one too, not one of those ancient Martins from way back when. It was made around 2003 or 2004, can't quite remember the exact year at the moment, but about that time.

I had Kevin Hall do up a bone nut and saddle for it recently and do a little setup work, and it's even better now than it used to be.