BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please

Subject: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: fogie
Date: 15 Aug 02 - 09:19 AM

Being not the most original old fogie,and having got into a bit of a competition with a mate to write some new "trad" type dance tunes, the reason being in part the problems relating to PRS etc. I could do with a bit of help. I can sometimes bounce off the general rhythmical structure of a new favourite tune and make a stab at an altered "copy", but I've tried all sorts of tricks to come up with new melodic hooks and tags, to base a new structure around, including playing bits of tunes backwards, and trying to take hook lines from those tunes you find yourself whistling unconsciously, (before you ask they include I'm forever blowing bubbles, and Rudolph the red nose reindeer) although I never can find a way to use them without it being pretty obvious from what they derive. I also find that waltzes are by far the easiest type of tune to write, although I'm not sure why. I'd love to know what others do, or whether the ideas spontaneously arive in embryo in tunesmiths minds?

Subject: RE: BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Aug 02 - 09:55 AM

one way is to write new words to a song. Then write a new tune to the words. If you chose a dance tune that has words you can ditch the new words and what you have is a new tune that has the same format. Worth a try is you are in a hurry, new to it, need a lot of tunes or generally jaded with other aproaches. The work may be derivative but sometime you will have worth that you can only dream of. I calls it Tested Words In Substitute Tune - TWIST
Ian Bruce reckoned he picked-up the wrong guitar one day and launched into a tune. The chords were different but as he was just musing he investigated the possiblities immediately. He is right handed I think and the guitar had been for a left hander in mirror inmage. Find your left handed guitar
We are coming near to autumn here in the UK so birds flock ready to migrate - look at the pattern of the birds on the wires if you can find the right telegraph poles.
Try playing tunes backwards.
and try converting waltz to polka (OK so it ain't that easy but some folks can do it on the fly).
Apart from Twist these may only give you riffs, chords, runs etc but it's a start.

Mutton Chops & I once tried to set the Words of Grays Elegy in a Country Churchyard to music. We did not know them as such and found them in a churchyard, which he did & I said yesno to. One note was causing difficulty then: As the Church Bell Chimed
Eureka! And that is what we called the song.
Inspiration comes from everywhere - the skill is in plucking the right fruit.

Subject: RE: BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 02 - 12:40 PM

Hi Fogie. I mostly write dance tunes on my trusty old Atari ST running Cubase. I usually start with a rhythmic or melodic idea from something I've heard. I get the gist down quickly, and then work on it until I get something I like. With trad dance music I find that once I've got 2 bars the rest of the first part sort of writes itself. The 2nd, 3rd, and Nth part are more difficult, but when I'm on a role they seem to come out of the ether like the first part. The main thing for me, is to is to write regularly and throw away the failures. All the best PP.

Subject: RE: BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: MMario
Date: 15 Aug 02 - 12:46 PM

I've heard that some people use bird calls as a basis.

Subject: RE: BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Aug 02 - 02:27 PM

I think the key is trying to get a blank page in your head. Not to even think of existing tunes, styles or even types of tune, as a starting point.

Doodle along until you find a sound or a pattern that pleases you. If you find or fear that what you have come up with is similar to something else, just alter or doodle along around those bits and you will eventually come up with an original tune.

It may be a fairly rubbish tune, but if you file it away and carry on, I am sure that you will be able to build up a collection of tunes, which will then make it possible for you to choose the better ones and discard some earlier efforts. Not that you first tunes should automatically be rubbish.

Don't discard things that seem too obvious for they may only be obvious to you. That is your style, don't be afraid of developing this.

Subject: RE: BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Aug 02 - 12:00 AM

A meandering mind has helped me. I often have tunes running through my head. Sometimes they're tunes I know and sometimes they're ones I created. I have no clue how some of them get there, but I tried an experiment once. Stuck a well known jig in my head on my way to buy groceries and deliberately changed a couple notes, then let it wander where it wanted. I came up with this. You may hear the familiar tune in only the A part because I think I pulled it out of my head when I got home and wrote the rest on computer.

It's hard to do this intentionally. I mean, I can stick a tune in my head and just leave it alone and see what happens. Often, when I try to change it on purpose - when I think about it, I don't have as much success. For using 'hooks' from other tunes, try putting them somewhere unexpected in the tune, like at or near the end instead of in the beginning.

Mr Red, funny you should say that about the left-handed guitar. I'm just trying a new tuning. I was consciously working out chords, then just started messing around. Wound up finding some chords that sounded weird but good, and picked strings in those chords. I wound up with a little tune.

Although I can write a tune methodically, my easiest and most fun experiences come out of the 'happy accident'. I quit paying attention, make a mistake, or just try something new, and wind up with a new tune.

Subject: RE: BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Aug 02 - 02:10 AM

From MrRed's post: Ian Bruce reckoned he picked-up the wrong guitar one day and launched into a tune.

I have done almost the same thing - picked up a guitar that I thought was tuned in Open G and began playing an Open G piece I had recently written - only the guitar was tuned in DADGAD - and it worked - got two tunes for the price of one.

Maybe you could cross tune your fiddle and tell your fingers it's still in standard tuning and see what comes out.

Subject: RE: BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: pavane
Date: 16 Aug 02 - 04:05 AM

Try my program HARMONY. It can create random tunes in traditional styles. Most are rather poor, but occasionally it produces a usable one!

Or use the facility to reverse an existing tune and play it backwards. This can provide some interesting phrases.

Download (free) from www.greenhedges.com

Subject: RE: BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: smallpiper
Date: 16 Aug 02 - 04:15 AM

I dreamed a tune once woke up and wrote it down while it was still fresh in my mind - spooky. Only happened once though and I will never make my fortune from it!

Subject: RE: BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: fogie
Date: 16 Aug 02 - 05:22 AM

Well thanks to you all , so far I've taken note of Red's changing tunes to other forms, Shambles, and Jeri's ideas I wish I knew how to put in a tune clicky. Thanks also to Pavane, whos program I will download in some free time, and look forward to trying the reverse play!

Subject: RE: BS: writing tunes-ideas to help please
From: fogie
Date: 16 Aug 02 - 12:04 PM

Iv'e just thought of another way to scramble tunes- play them as written but as if in a different key, I note that some old ms. sometimes are unclear as to the key, and surprisingly dull tunes come to life in 2b-3#