Bert Lloyd - George Martin?

Subject: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:22 PM

Did Bert LLoyd do for the Watersons what George Martin did for the Beatles?

Subject: RE: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 03:08 PM

In what way Les? I am fairly sure Bert helped with suggesting material and wrote some of the sleeve notes to the records. He certainly, as far as I know never helped with any harmonisation.

And when they first started they used to do some American stuff though they never recorded any. Before John Harrison there was Pete Ogley (later to sing with Cockersdale) who was rumoured to have left because he felt they would not get anywhere singing English traditional music.

And Lal and Mike were terrific songwriters. Bert certainly didn't help there.

HTH,


Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 03:24 PM

Did he put a lot of songs to them that they might not otherwise have come across?

Subject: RE: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 03:49 PM

I would reckon so.

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 01:45 AM

Bert Lloyd was definitely the fifth Waterson by all accounts. I would say that the Watersons singing General Wolfe was the peak of the English revival, for example: and Bert Lloyd fed them that song, and a lot of others.(I only have anecdotal evidence for this, I've never actually talked to them about this. I'm just going by gossip).

Subject: RE: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 06:33 AM

Everyone who knew Bert will tell you he was incredibly generous about songs with everybody not just the Watersons, although he was a great fan.
eric

Subject: RE: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 07:02 AM

I would second that. Indeed Martin Carthy was in a skiffle group with Bert's son and Bert's son kept coming up with songs that no other skiffle group had.

Regards,

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 07:06 AM

I can second that Eric. Bert was a prolific song-giver. He added plenty to my repertoire. He would phone with the comment 'I've found a couple you might like to try' then a few days later the song would arrive in the post. He always wrote the words and music on an A4 sheet turned sideways. He wrote letters the same way.

Bert Lloyd was a large part of my folk music life, I owe him so much. I sing at least a couple of his song gifts on every gig, and mention his name. Bert believed in passing songs along, I've no doubt that he gave some to the Waterson's. I remember a member of The Valleyfolk telling me of the number of songs he gave them, many to be found on their Topic album. He gave that 'pass the songs along' belief to me too. I've tried to live up to it though of course I couldn't ever match his output. The number of grand songs he gave that are now standard in the revival are tribute to his generosity. A great man.

Subject: RE: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: Ed.
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 07:49 AM

Bert Lloyd helped the Watersons by giving them songs which they then interpreted.

George Martin helped the Beatles by interpreting songs that they had given him.

No, their roles were not the same.

Subject: RE: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 12:14 PM

Nice point Ed. I guess the enabling role was different but invaluable

Subject: RE: Bert Lloyd - George Martin?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 12:18 PM

What a lovely way of putting it, Ed.

I wished I'd said that! :-)

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk