Blind Blues singers

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 03:18 PM

Poppagator, for the record, I want to take this opportunity to say that I recognize that my raising the issue in this thread of singular or plural referents for African American peoples was
off-topic. Though I stand by the points I raised, it was inappropriate to raise those points at that time. I've attempted to apologize to Susan and I hereby apologize to the rest of this thread's readers for changing the discussion topic.

I started reading and posting to this thread as a means of learning more about the custom of affixing the descriptor "blind" to Blues singers' names.

I recognize that my questions/comments about this topic are more in keeping with the Blind Blues Singer thread that Doc John started, though there were comments in this thread-mostly by weelittledrummer-that address the efficacy of using "blind" in Blues musicians' and Blues singers' names.

For the record [no pun intended], I don't like the practice of adding "blind" to the names of Blues-or Gospel-singers/musicians. It seems to me that nowadays, many people who are seeing impaired would take exception to the contemporary use of such names. And I believe they would be right to do so. However, I understand that times & customs and attitudes change, and what folks thought about such a custom in the past may have been different than what folks think about the same custom in the present.

I asked questions about this as a means of ascertaining whether folks in past decades routinely identified artists and non-artists by referencing those people's physical disabilities. It appears that this may have been the case. I gather from your comment and Susan's comment that you noted that it's your position that you believe that early 20th century Blues and gospel artists who were blind didn't have any problem with being referred to by their disability. However, if that was the case, I'm curious about why it was so and whether that cutom was race based [meaning whether "Blind" was only used in the names of Black Blues and/or Black Gospel artists].

Perhaps people did it just because it was the custom. And maybe this custom came about simply because by happenchance some of the best early Bluesmen/Gospel singers were blind, in part because of their talent/skill and also in part because of the reason that Susan gave in her 26 Nov 07 - 11:37 AM post to this thread-
that "itinerant musician" was one career open to blind people".

Given the stellar reputation of certain blind Bluesmen/Gospel singers, maybe other vision impaired Blues/Gospel singers took to marketing themselves as blind to piggyback on this reputation and help themselves be better known to people who might attend their concerts...

****

Again {and this directed to all those reading this thread} I apology for my part in the exchange in this thread that Poppagator called a "catfight".

I'm still interested in learning more about the topic of blind Blues singers and will continue to read-and perhaps will continue to post to this thread.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 03:19 PM

For what it's worth, I posted my comment before reading GUEST,TJ in San Diego's post.

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 03:58 PM

Azizi, if you will look at my posts from last night again, you will see some information about the naming of Blues artists.

~Big Mama Sugar Dog Hinton

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 04:00 PM

I almost hesitated to use the word "catfight," but once it had occurred to me, couldn't help myself. My excuse (how I justified it to myself) is that all of this discussion is taking place at a site called "mudcat," hopefully making the usage a bit more acceptable, as a sort of pun.

I was and still am fully aware that the word I used has politically-incorrect gender-based implications. I typed it anyway, figuring we're all mature enough, and comfortable enough with each other, to laugh it off.

I believe we have already established that the very common practice of appending the word "Blind" to the front-end of a performer's (or a group's!) name/stage-name was never exclusive to Black artists, although it may have been less commonly used among White ones.

I would also point out that the practice was pretty much restricted to a certain historical era and is no longer common. I'll concede that The "Blind Boys" of both Alabama and Mississippi still perform under their justly-well-established names, but they're hardly "boys" anymore; they're all very old men, and the names of their groups date back to a bygone era. (And, for anyone especially sensitive to potentially offensive identification of individuals, wouldn't the word "boys" be MORE offensive than the word "blind"?)

Since one Ray C. Robinson got himself famous under the name "Ray Charles" ~ and NOT "Blind Ray Charles" or "Blind Ray Robinson" ~ the practice of including the modifier "blind" in strage names seems to have come to an end. Bit that doesn't mean we need to condemn those who followed that practice in earlier years.

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 05:26 PM

I've attempted to apologize to Susan

It was a very nice apology (accepted), as well as proactively offered, and I also apologize for the amount of personal energy that went into my replies in the effort to answer the questions that were raised.... I know that some people get really, really nervous/tense/worried when it looks like I'm "going after" Azizi-- I've had PMs about this in the past.

I believe that to be less than authentic with someone, out of a concern that my words will be mistaken for racism, is, itself, racist-- I believe that when you really respect someone, as a person, as I respect Azizi, you don't tippytoe around "the color line"-- because if you do, what you are seeing is not the person, but the line. Of course we all do our best to be as gracious in our honesty as possible. But what's possible, I think, is a variable, not an absolute. (Would I like to do better next time? Of course.)

So again, as I often confess-- I am sorry I am not perfect. :~) What you see is what you get, though, not tippytoed BS.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: GUEST,guy wolff
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 06:07 PM

Im with Jim Krause in loving Blind Blake . That vidio by Woody Mann he was aftyer is available from Stefon Grossman at :

http://guitarvideos.com/video/dvd/801dvd.htm


All the best Guy Wolff

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:42 PM

Hi Aziz,
I did start a similar thread to yours as I hadn't seen it then. Fortunately someone revived it. Thanks
Like you I'm curious about the 'Blind' name: was it used by the singer or by the record companies. Usually it seems to be 'Blind First name Surname' but then there's 'Blind Blake' whose first name is never used. I think he says it's Arthur on one of his recordings. I seem to remember when Sonny Terry first arrived in the UK he was never called Blind Sonny Terry. Then there is the now very unaccepatable 'Crippled Clarence'. If you browse the Document catalogue you'll find that John Bray has a very non pc nick name!
Doc John

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 03:12 PM

Hello, Doc John. I'm glad you found this thread. I need to correct your statement that this is my thread. I've been a poster to this thread. However, the person who started this thread is the Mudcatter whose tag name is "Leadbelly" [See thefirst post to this thread.]

You mentioned the name "Crippled Clarence" and I googled that name since I hadn't heard of that performer before. Here's an excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cripple_Clarence_Lofton :

"Cripple Clarence Lofton (March 28, 1887 - January 9, 1957) was born Albert Clemens in Kingsport, Tennessee. Though he was born with a limp (from which he derived his stage name), Clarence actually started his career as a tap-dancer. This was not his true calling, and he showed his true talent in the blues craze known as boogie-woogie and moved on to perform in Chicago"

Most of his songs were twelve-bar blues to which Lofton brought a unique excitement by dropping bars and portions of bars to end up with nine-, ten-, or eleven-bar blues songs.

With such a unique style, it wasn't long until Clarence found himself a mainstay in his genre. His first recording was in the month of April with another local success Big Bill Broonzy for Vocalion Records. He later went on to own the Big Apple nightclub in Chicago and continued to record well into the late 1940s, when he retired..."


-snip-

In Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, there used to be a facility called The Home For Crippled Children". It's been at least 15 years if not more that that facility has changed its' name to "The Children's Rehabilitation Center" .

Attitudes have changed about the appropriateness of describing individuals by referring to their disabilities.

Thank goodness.

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:44 PM

Well, I don't get all that bogged down with the politcis of performing names... But with that said, it does seem to be a Southern "thang"...

People in the South love their nicknames, be they individual, like Tater, Tinker, Bubba, etc... or general, like Honey, Farling, Sweetie...

So it isn't a surprise that many bluesmen took on "cute" stage names... I mean, they weren't/aren't like TV wrestler's stage/performing name... They are cute... Not agressive... Catchy... Yeah, okay sometimes a tad plageristic but, hey???

So in honoring the spirit of the blues, I allowed myself to be pegged "Sidewalk Bob"... Okay, it ain't really plageristic but it is cute, non-agressive and I think follows the rules purdy well...

I mean, lets get real here for aminute... The blues is fun music and joyous music and, for the most part, light music and so are the perfroming names... Be it "Blind", "Guitar", "Magic", "Rev" or whatever...

Sidewalk Bob (Bobert)

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: GUEST,dry bones band
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 12:02 AM

Out of Blind Boy Fuller, Blind Willie McTell, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Blind Blake, and Blind Willie Johnson (am I forgetting someone?) it would be hard to choose. I was thinking about this lately, after listening to Johnson closely for the past week or so, and then listening to McTell and Jefferson and Blake. Damn they're all so good. To me that's creative genius, and a sad American story to boot, reading about how Johnson and Jefferson died and seeing how their accomplishments were largely overlooked in their day.
Blind Willie Johnson's voice is really something -- even Howlin Wolf doesn't match it for power and Johnson has a light touch, too, when he wants to use it. For guitar virtuoso Blake and McTell really shine -- but they sing with a more sophisticated, popular approach, I'd say. The mix used back then, with the vocals way up in front and the perfect acoustic guitar playing used for color and drive, as opposed to having the guitars up front seeming to say, look what I can do, has really been lost. Lemon Jefferson might be the greatest artist -- his quirky playing is a marvel and his singing and his lyrics -- did you ever hear that coffin sound (or coughin) -- believe to my soul that woman's gonna voodoo me -- my mind left me took a trip down south and so on. . .
Well these were great American artists and they should be studied in schools and taught to school children . . .

Subject: RE: Blind Blues singers
From: Doc John
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 02:03 PM

From Bob's comments, I guess we can assume that nicknames were simply normal in the south in the times we're talking about; this was certainly the case in the prisons where we have 'Iron Head', 'Clear Rock', 'Flat Foot', 'Gar Mouth', 'Jay Bird', 'Sin Killer', 'Fat Head' etc. I won't give you John Bray's nickname I alluded to above; has anyone checked this? Some of these suggest physical characteristics like 'Blind', 'Crippled', 'Fatty', 'Stump' but although we find such names unaaceptable now, it doesn't mean that this was the case then, or will necessarily be in the future.
Dry bone, yes I too think those four were the greatest and, interesting, all very different in style. How Blind Blake played like he did is truely amazing and, considering he played with well known musician like Johnny Dodds, it's also amazing we don't know who he was.
Doc John