Tune Req: Derry Down

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 12:11 AM

Here's a MIDI that leeneia prepared. It doesn't sound like any version of "Derry Down" that I know, but I am far from all-knowing.

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Click to play (joeweb)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 02:55 AM

"It doesn't sound like any version of "Derry Down" that I know,"
That's the standard version I've known since it was used for The Dreadnought' on the early Topic Sea albums Joe
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 03:00 AM

Try HERE
(MacColl at his most 4-square - shame)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Sep 19 - 01:07 PM

Since "derry down" is a floating vocable with no meaning, used in many songs, I don't see how a song can be named "Derry Down." That would be like naming a song "Tra la la."

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 Sep 19 - 02:38 PM

Hi Leeneia
There are actually a couple called Derry Down, but that aside it isn't a song that is called Derry Down, it's the tune and chorus which have been used for hundreds of songs since about 1685 on both sides of the Atlantic. During the nineteenth century it was mostly to be found in the maritime states of the US and Canada, particularly New York State, and even more particularly in the lumbercamps.

I agree with Jim that is the better known of any of the DD tunes. I just found the 4th line slightly different. Have a listen to MacColl's singing. That is pretty much the tune as printed in about 1700, though there are lots of variations and the further you get from the source both in time and geographically the more diverse they become, as you would expect.

If it helps, the format is always anapaestic tetrameter and the chorus is pretty much recognisable in all its forms, and the leap in the 3rd line is almost always there. I think it's a great tune.

As I stated wayback in the thread the 2 words 'derry' and 'down' have appeared in various combinations since Tudor times and probably earlier, but if the tune is designated 'Derry Down' it has become so famous that most people in history with any musical knowledge would have known what the tune was.

Having said that a great musical historian of the late 19thc mentioned the 2 'Derry Down' tunes and I'd be pleased to be told what the other one is, (other than that you've posted here and sung by Ewan).

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Sep 19 - 04:24 PM

Thank you for posting the MIDI, Joe. That tune is the tune that Steve Gardham asked about in the original post.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Sep 19 - 07:15 PM

The tune I think of as "Derry Down" is the one used for "Red Iron Ore." The digital tradition tune is here (click). There are similarities, but I don't think the two are the same tune. Maybe if I slowed Leeneia's tune down, the two would sound more similar.
-Joe-

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I guess they are the same melody. When I slowed leeneia's MIDI down and changed the voice to piano, it sounded very much like the Digital Tradition melody.

Click to play (joeweb)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Oct 19 - 01:58 PM

The chorus line is the clincher, but the rest is almost a cross between DD and the usual tune for Henry Martin. Interesting. Perhaps the 2 tunes are distantly related after all. DD and the regular Henry Martin are sufficiently different to have their own identities, but the main point is that Henry Martin does not in any version have the AABB rhyming pattern which is evident in all of the hundreds of DD songs.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Oct 19 - 03:53 PM

If anyone is interested I've done an abc of the midi file posted

Date: 29 Sep 19 - 12:11 AM

X:1
T:Dreadnought
C:Traditional
M:6/8
Q:228
L:1/8
K:Dmin
A|ABA GFE|FED ^C2 A,1|D^C D FED|CDE F2 G/G/|
FED CDC|CDC c2 d/d/|dcB AGF|GFG A2 F/E/|D3 A3 |GFE D2 |]

I've changed the clef to treble clef and raised it by an octave, otherwise it's the same.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: leeneia
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 10:23 AM

Thanks, Stanron. Now more people can play it.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jun 25 - 09:35 AM

Looking back to "Dom Pedro" (15 Sept 19):

There's been almost no discussion anywhere of this American forebitter printed by Joanna C. Colcord in "Roll and Go" (1924) and set to the "Derry Down" tune now seemingly inseparable from "The Dreadnought."

The bark Dom Pedro II is mentioned in the shipping news of the New York Herald (June 29, 1860) as having arrived in Boston "from Bahia, via Holmes' Hole."

The final mention I've found of Dom Pedro II is in the Savannah Morning News (June 24, 1904), The previous day she'd been cleared for Baltimore from Key West.

The Herald (Apr. 18, 1862), notes Dom Pedro II, Capt. Lewis, was at “Shanghae,” as in the song, on Feb. 8.

Confusing the issue somewhat, The [Baltimore] Sun reported (Dec. 21, 1877) that *another* bark Dom Pedro II was launched at Baltimore in 1877, built specifically for the Brazilian coffee trade. This may be the vessel mentioned in 1904, above.

The earlier vessel seems to have been built originally for the same purpose, in light of both the name and her 1860 voyage from Bahia.

Pedro II, Emperor of Brazil, ruled from 1831-1889.