Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: mattkeen
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:48 AM

Course its good

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:51 AM

As the study of folk music has always been an academic pursuit, one would think the degree course would follow on in that tradition - something more along the lines of Ethnomusicology, which is to say as an academic discipline, rather than a vocational one, given that actual folk music has never been that easy to quantify or qualify given its social / human context. I remember an old friend who was doing the post-grad Ethomusicology course at Durham telling me of the fun she was having trying to transcribe a field-recording she'd made of an amateur Barber Shop Quartet from Hartlepool.

More of this, one would have thought, would be useful, by way of collecting, cataloging, analysing and generally documenting a music which endures very often in the cultural hinterlands - certainly beyond the remit of the likes of Folkworks, whom, I believe, we have to thank for the degree course, determindly churning out its 'Stars of the Future.'

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,Bridger
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:58 AM

Sedayne what are you talking about?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:59 AM

Dick wrote:

"the best experience for traditional musicians,is to listen to source musicians /singers"

which the Newcastle students do.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:04 AM

They do. And all the stuff Sedayne is chuntering on about, but not to the exclusion of performance. The course is performance-based. Look at the course structure before telling the students they should be doing something else. If they wanted to be archivists or field recordists or ethomusicologists exclusively they would be studying elsewhere.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:05 AM

I am glad they manage to find a little time away from the arpeggio practises, to listen to a bit of folk music.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:14 AM

Sorry, I think the diarrhoea must be infecting my writing, in which I'll accept Diane's Chuntering as another euphemism (see other thread).

Anyone on this thread actually been on, or doing, the course by the way?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:16 AM

A geordie bloke I was at college with reckoned Gateshead women had the price written on the soles of their shoes whereas Newcastle lasses were more discreet - just folk legend?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:20 AM

No, no. Not Gateshead. North Shields.
Does anyone know what Sedayne's talking about?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: TheSnail
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:20 AM

weelittledrummer was being a little selective in his quoatation when he said "the entrant is crudely asked - do you enjoy playing English/Irish traditional music?

The full context is -

Do you enjoy listening to different types of music?
The most important factor in choosing whether to study music is - are you interested in the subject? Do you enjoy:


performing traditional music from Britain and/or Ireland?
listening to different types of music?
finding out more about musical influences and origins?
going to concerts and other music performances?
understanding how culture and identity relate to music?

If you can answer 'yes' to these, then this could be the degree for you!

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:26 AM

One of the great pleasures of Mudcat are the posts made by people like Malcolm, Q, Jim Dixon, Masato, Joe Offer (and some others whose names have slipped me at this moment). Their research into song origins and the ways songs have changed over the years has been an education for me. Surely a university degree will mean little if the recipient has just a piece of paper with Latin words on it. But most will come out having earned a good degree with diligence and study, and that will be a good thing for the future of the music. People are wont to quote that old saw about 'those who do not learn from history . . .'. Well, the people at Newcastle will be. They are the ones who will ensure that it is not forgotten. Their resaerch will enlighten generations to come. So once again, surely . . . .

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:28 AM

WLD - Bigg Market, Newcastle (the old Bigg Market) and Pink Lane

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: johnadams
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:37 AM

Of course they listen to folk music. It's cost me and Chris a soddin' fortune in CDRs giving the students access to bits of our now deleted vinyl collection.

And quite a few record collections have gone their way - the late Sid Long's stuff went up there for one.

Some of the students have a real curiosity about sources and source singers. Some of them try specialise in and research their own regional music.

Others end up being derivative and lacking in sparkle. It takes all sorts. It's a degree. Some will get 1st class honours and some might scrape a third or even fail.

J

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Banjiman
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:45 AM

I have emailed someone who is currently on the course to come and add some informed opinion to this thread....hopefully if they are not too busy out playing (folk?) music they might join the discussion.

Paul

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:08 PM

In the states it seems that "traditional" refers more to a process than a repertoire or style.

This approach is exemplied by the West Virginia Folk Art Apprenticeship Program.

http://www.augustaheritage.com/about.html#The_Apprenticeship_Program

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,The Ballad of The Bold Researcher
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 01:03 PM

the short answer to the question posed is....some people think so

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 01:16 PM

I wish I could have done that when I was young. Lucky buggers.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,The Ballad of The Bold Researcher
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 01:54 PM

the only people I've ever heard say the "real folk musicians don't sight read" are the ones who can't, personally it struck and strikes me that there is more that a bit of jealousy there....Does this mean that because I can actually sight read that I'm not a "REAL MUSICIAN".......oh dear.... :-D *LOL*

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 02:16 PM

no the real problem is that the important guitarists (Django, Hendrix, Jansch) are largely musically illiterate.

Some like Django and Bert dallied with learning notation, and it seemed to subtract rather than add.

Musical literacy is important for ensemble playing - but the geniuses, the wildcards like Bix Beiderbeck and Lightning Hopkins - seemed better without that stuff in their heads.

its best left to the individual. no blame one way or the other.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 02:22 PM

Good one, Al.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: stallion
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 02:46 PM

Ok Steve Thompson doesn't read music, I don't, Martin Bartlett reads it to violin and voice, Anna Shannon does it to a plethora of instruments, I even watched her write a melody on a manuscript (whilst ironing) and then play it after it was finished (the ironing) I am in awe of people with that ability and skill and a tad envious, as to the folk degree I vowed to keep an open mind, but if anyone is listening from that establishment try teaching charisma or maybe weed out the wannabe celebrity's maybe that's bollocks, maybe the folk world needs wannabe celebs, I don't know.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,Paul D
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 02:55 PM

I thought I would just give you my take on the course; which may be a bit bias as I started it about five weeks ago. I am a mature student, so first of all it isn't all about kids; there are four of us oldies in this year's intake. I started because it is a wonderful way to learn about a subject dear to my heart, have music tuition from some fantastic musicians; a previous comment mentioned some of the full time lectures but on top of that there are guest lecturers all the time too many to mention. For me the highlights are lectures from really interesting people who have first hand experience of our living traditions.

I do not agree with the previous comment about stage presents or the 'rising stars' tag. I have found all my fellow students a group of people who are enthusiastic and enjoy making music and I have not seen any egos that need putting in place. (as yet). Remember the 'Rising stars' nights are something we all are strongly (and rightly) encouraged to take part in, as part of developing and gaining performance experience; what was seen that night may have had more to do with nerves than anything else. The previous comment said that the word was that the students had to be coerce into attending local folk cubs, Oh so not true, many of my fellow student go to the Bridge most weeks alas not me as I have a mandolin lesson on Tuesdays so stay in and practise but I have been to other sessions ( when work load permits, and it is hard work) ect and there is always a spattering there.

In conclusion is it a good course? For me, I have only been here for five weeks I am learning so much and met some interesting and great people. I think that a course like this is not only about the academic content but also about skilled practitioners passing on their skill and knowledge of our tradition to the next generation.

PS The villan. Don't wish, do

(I wish I could have done that when I was young. Lucky buggers)


Paul

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 03:31 PM

Paul D, congratulations.

I went to university to take a degree when I was 34 years old (mature student) after having failed both grades 10 (made up in summer school) and 11 in high school 18 years previous. I went to school when I WANTED to learn and learn I did. (Ended up getting the degree annotated "with distinction".)

It's wonderful that you have chosen to pursue something you love to begin with and will learn to love more as your studies progress. Keep well.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 03:33 PM

Well Paul, as I don't play or sing or understand music, I don't think I would get in LOL
Doesn't stop me wishing I could though :-)

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,Paul D
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 04:32 PM

Like you four and a half years ago I was whishing and not playing anything but then I was lucky enough to be made redundant and then the start of my musical journey

Paul D

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Wild Flying Dove
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 04:36 PM

I know someone on the 2nd year of the course and they're having a great time and learning lots - as evidenced by their improved playing, singing and confidence. I can't think of anything better than to be learning to play and sing, regardless of whether it gets you anywhere in the future etc etc. It's clearly a great experience and I for one am quite jealous of anyone who is able to dedicate 3 years of their life to learning to play /sing & perform folk music & song.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:04 PM

Paul
I could see my wife and children letting me go up to Newcastle.
Les

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:55 PM

Maybe if I ever get to retire....

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Tootler
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:58 PM

Perhaps it would help if people actually looked at Newcastle University's website before pronouncing on this course. It might then avoid some of the misinformation that has been posted.

The information many seek can be found at www.ncl.ac.uk/sacs/undergrad/degrees/w340.htm
.

For example the entry requirements are stated as 3 grade B's at A-level including music.

There is a link to the course modules on the page, though there seems to be a bug at the moment. The other links are working though.

I go to the Sage to their Caedmon folk classes and to other Folkworks workshops on a regular basis and have met (and know) a number of both recent graduates and current students from the course and the descriptions above do not fit any of those I know. Yes they are talented, but mostly they wear it lightly and don't look down on others or display "artistic temperament". In fact they are a refreshingly normal bunch of people who just happen to love folk music.

Newcastle are careful to claim the course is the first in England but I actually think they were ahead of the rest of the UK.

Not long after it started, I did a check through the UCAS website on other courses involving folk and traditional music and there was nothing in the UK quite like the Newcastle course. A couple of Scottish Universities offered traditional music as an option on a standard BMus, but usually later on in the course. Things have changed since then, I believe.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:35 PM

Well that rules me out,I have no qualifacations whatsoever,apart from playing the music for forty years.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,Paul D
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:47 PM

The folk degree entry requirements are bit more flexable. I have no 'A' levels, to get in I did an OU access course, played an audition and was set an essay to write.

Paul D

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,GUEST - folk degree student
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 12:25 PM

As a student in my fourth and final year of the folk degree, someone invited me onto this forum to give a reaction to your discussion. Well, I'd like to, but so far I've re-written my response about five times, and haven't managed to get it under 1,000,000 words!

I'm saddened by the negativity towards the degree, and us students, from some of you. I suspect some of it stems from ignorance of the way the degree works - even how university in general works these days. There's a lot of confusion about how one goes about 'studying music' - any music - and I understand why it would be treated with suspicion. I also think that the reason behind some of your negativity is jealousy - because let's face it, if you could spend as much time playing music, performing, and being taught one-on-one by your favourite musicians, you'd grab the chance with both hands, as we have done. I know some successful, professional folk performers who wish they could suspend touring, promoting and recording in order to just enjoy their music in an intensive environment for a few years!

Many of your comments seem quite alien to me - we don't see what we're doing like that at all. Maybe if you talked to us and asked us, instead of assuming, what we think of our 'position' within the folk scene, what we expect to gain from the degree, and how we compare ourselves to musicians who haven't studied on it, you would be able to make a more rounded judgement of us. I don't know anyone here studying with a view to being a professional performer who DOESN'T want to be judged against every other performer out there, on their own merits and skills and ability, regardless of whether or not they have that bit of paper. We don't think that having a degree makes us better musicians, but we would hope that four years of intensive playing, under the guidance of brilliant performers, would.

Even though I generalise here, I also have to say that I don't think there is an example of the 'typical' student performer - everyone here is very different, and pursuing his or her own path. Almost all musicians are influenced by more than just the one genre they play in, and so our individual influences come into play as well. The idea of some sort of 'carbon copy' performer being punched out after four years is a notion circled by people who haven't heard or seen enough of us perform to make a valid judgement.

The weird thing about this course is that, even though we all want something for our efforts - ie, our degree, because after all we've worked for it - most people are here just to learn. To take everything they can from brilliant teachers, to meet like-minded people and network with others on the scene, to indulge in the fact that they are lucky enough to be able to spend this much time playing the music they love, and to discover where that music comes from and what about it is still relevant today. There are very few degrees where this is the case, anymore - the government treats university simply as a ticket to better things, not an experience to be valued for its own sake. The folk degree, for this reason, is a rare and brilliant thing, and I don't mind adding: it's the best thing I've ever done!

The course is not perfect - neither are the teachers, and neither are the students. But why do you care? Your turn to care is when ex-students start turning up to play at concert venues and festivals, and you are subjected to our music. Then, you can make a judgement about us based solely on how good or bad we are, the same as you would anybody else.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 12:41 PM

Thank you very much to the actual students and tutors who have added their comments here. More please! Here are a couple of questiobs.
What particularly interests me is the sort of people on the course. (1) What proportion are there to study folk music as a subject worthy of study, and what proportion are studying with a view to being a performer? I believe both types of course are available, though I might be wrong.
(2)Also, while I see that the study of recordings of traditional perfomers is an activity everyone indulges in, how about studying with actual traditional performers in the flesh?(I use the term "traditonal" here obviously in the sens of "as opposed to revival", not as in "performer of traditional material").
(3) Also, could a student or tutor actually comment on a bone of contention earlier. Is a certain technical standard of performance expected as a condition of entry to the course?(eg something akin to the classical grades. A figure of VIII was quoted earlier).Do people on the course think a considerable technical proficiency is necessary, or only desirable?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 02:13 PM

>>I'm saddened by the negativity towards the degree, and us students<<

Hey Folk Degree Student, don't be saddened. You are very lucky to be on such a course. Make the most of it. Your the winner.
The people who are negative are either jealous or just whinging old gits. Thats the folk world LOL

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 02:18 PM

I am surprised that the student above (and more power to his elbow) has felt he needed to address the performance aspect of the course to the exclusion of the ethnomusicological aspect, which I suspect underpins the development of relevant performance skills. Otherwise, why is it a folk music course rather than any other type of music course?

Am I right?

(WMD, I know your view!)

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 02:32 PM

Well if warning bells weren't sounding before, they sure as hell ought to be now! I suppose the certitude, moral complacency and arrogance won't surprise many who have dealings with the traddy community. In so many ways they will fit your requirements like a glove, Richard. Nevertheless I can think of no University other than Oxbridge that so successfully implants that feeling they are Gods gift.

"Your turn to care is when ex-students start turning up to play at concert venues and festivals, and you are subjected to our music."

Sadly that is already the case.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 02:52 PM

What's wrong with their music Al? They are all different, no? Most or many of them have some sense of this contry's tradition. Is that your complaint?

Why do you only want people who play your music? It isn't even yours - not criticising your performances, which are masterly, but it's purely American in its origin. Why do you want this country's music to be imported? Why do you object to THIS country's music being infused with new ideas (some better than others, but that's how music grows and evolves).

We HAVE to get together and see what our opposed ideologies can create! Might it be as successful as Davy Graham's theory that Irish traditional music drew from the orient? I'm afraid you'll have to do the technically competent bits. Or should we go down the pub and forget it?

We are rightly concerned at the diminution of the gene pool in animals, in plants. Surely we should be concerned to preserve the gene pool in music too, and to continue to find applications for the old ways.

We do it in herbal medicine. There are modern applications for curare. We do it in literature - we still study Shakespeare (I hate Shakespeare but that's not the point).

Student is right, as far as he goes. His work can be judged when it appears. Since you don't know who he is you cannot criticise his music - yet.

Oh - and as far as God's gift goes: -

(1) You already know about law grads from Nottingham University, too!

(2) "Gift" is german for "poison".

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 02:53 PM

WLD: you don't half hate trad folk music, don't you? Were you scared by a fidler at an impressionable age? Don't you think there's room in the world for all sorts of music?

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 03:56 PM

>>Don't you think there's room in the world for all sorts of music? <<

I think Big Al is all for that.

>>WLD: you don't half hate trad folk music, don't you?<<

Surely its the other way round. Trad folk people can't get it into their heads that there is room for all sorts of music.

Big Al is a very good performer and is liked very much at Faldingworth nuff said.

I'll get me variety coat.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 06:15 PM

Dear folk degree student. Congratulations. I have often heard people slagging the various Arts degrees that are available here in Canada. A degree is a degree. Some will enable people to go do other things, and some will be wasted. Much like certifications in various trades. Hang in there and enjoy your time. I wish you every success.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 07:50 PM

No, Villan, I do get fed up with that. And I made the point of expressing my honest admiration for WMD's performances (it's just they are not folk).

I for one will defend many types of music - I just want folk music to be called folk music, and not have other stuff called folk music. I prefer much traddish sort of stuff, but among my favourite bands/performers are Budgie, Ten Years After, various of the John Mayall bands, the Steve Miller Band, Blue Oyster Cult, James Brown, Howlin Wolf, (early) Pink Floyd, (early) Stones - although with exception of Howlin Wolf none are folk music.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 12:07 AM

.. i just wish

[bollocks, i promised a very well respected admin here
i would not post on weekends when i am nicely cidered up]

there was a similar college course in bristol or bridgwater

or even weston super mare
[now the new uni campus is opening soon..]

sod all the sancimonious old trurd folkies and the all other peculiar deranged f@lkwits..






each corner of the brit ilse needs a similar college course..


maybe at risk of getting a bit too paraochial..
but fuck it ..
one folky uni cousre well up north in the freezing cold lands

is not enough today in the 21st century

..and maybe bath uni could do world music in acordance with womad and gurt old mr gabriels studio..

thank you for reading.. g'night

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 04:14 AM

Villan: in my experience people who like trad folk music tend to like vast amounts of other music. But WLD, at least on the evidence of his posts here, is actually hostile to trad folk music.Which is fine, there's no accounting for tastes, but it does make you wonder why he spends time on a folk music forum.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 05:35 AM

I think that WLD is probably more hostile to trad folkies than to trad folk, but that the concepts get intertwined.

And of course, his view would be that it is what he does that is folk, because more people listen to it therefore it is the music of the people, hence folk. His view would be that what traddies do is some elitist thing that excludes the folk, and therefore is not folk. He therefore goes beyond the "horse" argument.

And he likes a good argument, I think!

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 05:45 AM

I'm not hostile at all to 'traditional' folk music at all and have spent much of my life listening to it and thinking about it.

Read the 'folkies' thread. And they have this picture of themselves as being a great group of nice guys. I think almost the opposite is the case.

They turn with ferocity on their own - look at the shit Ewan MacColl's family would find slung at Ewan if they looked through mudcat. Look the Davy Graham thread - just for doing a few shit gigs (the actual lifetime of his achievement is recorded in every English guitarists fingers).

And worst of all they aren't interested in folk, that is to say - people. All they give a shit about is this tiny library of what they are pleased to regard as the folk songs of England. Great if you're the Copper family - but what about all the other families.

For about six years my principle source of revenue was gigging in old peoples homes. The old people used to ask me for all sorts of songs, and songs from artists I'd never heard of. We are an incredibly musical nation. The soul and creativity of this nation has not been channeled through this tiny clump of folksongs for a long time.

My grandparents era was best summed up by the work of Dave and Al Sealey (Cosmotheka). They used to sing many of the songs my grandparents knew. Now Bob abd Al have finished, theres nobody even connecting with the era that recent (1850's 1930's).

Similarly, do you remember the shit you had to go through when you told your parents generation you were going to live with your girlfriend, rather than get married. Where are the folksongs about how the family structures have changed. And our society generally.

I was watching Folk Britannia last night til four and was quaintly amused by Ewan and Billy Bragg - giving their 'two legs good, four legs bad' account of the miners strike. The songs they were writing SO misunderstood what was going on. Their songs didn't spring from the communities, like say Tommy Armstrong's did. I'm not saying sing Tommy Armstrong - I'm saying look at your own world, take off your 'traddy' glasses - just now and then, for a start.

Sing folksongs about real folks! Ones that you know!

Look at the write a lincolnshire folksong bit on Radio Lincolnshire's website. There is a great song about a corrupt politician, and this year it was won with aong about a larcenous Lincolnshire barmaid. It can be done! Maybe not in Newcastle University for a while.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 06:09 AM

Sorry about Dave Sealey turning into Bob within a sentence. Its staying up late watching telly that does the damage!

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: TheSnail
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 06:11 AM

weelittledrummer

I'm not hostile at all to 'traditional' folk music at all and have spent much of my life listening to it and thinking about it.

Previously - (I know I've quoted it before, but it's so good.)

I think 'traditional' music is a load of bullshit. An insult to my intellect. Nobody handed this pile of rubbish down to me.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 06:12 AM

Actually, Al, the quote from Orwell is "Four legs good, two legs bad"

It was the pigs who changed it to "Four legs good, two legs better".

As to the miner's strike, Thatcher deliberately set out to smash union power, so that she could make her rich middle class friends (the daughter of a grocer) richer by enabling them to command the lower classes.   That's not simply opinion. She also made in a different context a head-on attack on the possibility of local government providing a platform for views opposed to her own, and destroyed the UK independent TV infrastrucure simply to enable her to take Thames' franchise away for the "Death on the Rock" documentary.

You need to start by appreciating that a folk song differs from a pop song.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 06:41 AM

Yes and I think Snail if you read my posts you will find that they aren't actually contradictory.

Traditional music is a good idea - someone should try it. preferably in a style that doesn't insult your intelligence. I damn well know whether something is my family has been involved in the last hundred and fifty years ago. it is emphatically NOT what was handed down to me, or many other people.

Richard is brighter than both of us wrapped up together, and I take his nitpicking appraoch as a concession that I am 'onto' something. Thatcher was bonkers, who knows what her intentions were. And who gives a shit how many legs were better.

the broad thrust of the argument is the same. I have a feeling if I saw Richard perform I wouldn't forget it in a while, unlike the lot I alluded to earler, whose degrees were their most memorable feature.

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree - is it any good?
From: GUEST,Paul D
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 06:54 AM

I would like to reiterate something that guest folk degree student said,

most people are here just to learn. To take everything they can from brilliant teachers, to meet like-minded people.

I agree whole heartedly, for me the fact that hopefully a bit of paper arrives at the end of the course is not the point, the four years spent in association and learning from great musicians is.

Also to answer.

Is a certain technical standard of performance expected as a condition of entry to the course?
Because this is a folk music course it is excepted that some of us students come at music from a deferent angle to that of classical music, so grades are not an essential but there is an audition and you do need to be fairly proficient on your instrument; if for no other reason you will be playing with other students all the time if you are not able to keep up it is hard. My playing is not at the highest level, I have only been playing for four years, but the emphasis is not on were you are, but on improving, growing and learning. This year's class has a wide mix, from people that I have seen performing already to me; each one gets something different from the course.

Paul D