Req: Name of this Stan Treacy tune???

Subject: Tune Req: Name of this tune???
From: DaveJohnson
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 06:29 PM

I have transcribed this tune from an Australian traditional fiddler and am at a loss for its derivation. Stan Treacy played mostly jigs, polkas, schottisches and waltzes so this stood out as unusual. It is clearly latin-american style and I vaguely recall dancing to music like this at school socials - the cha cha barn dance probably - and the Alan Ford dance band. Anyway here is the abc:
X:1
T:Crookwell Goes Latin-American
N:from the fiddle playing of Stan Treacy, Crookwell, NSW
N:collected by Don Brian and transcribed and arranged by Dave Johnson
N:Play (AB) x times then finish with A
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:G
P:A
Bc|"G"dd2 d dB cd|"Am"e e2 ee3e|"D7"ff2f fd ef|"G"gf ga b2Bc|
"G"dd2 d dB cd|"Am"e e2 ee2ag|"D7"ff2f fd ef|"G"gg bb g2||
P:B
d2|"G"gg2 g g2 ed|"Am"cc2c A2 ag|"D7"f3 fd3d |"G"BB BAG2zd|
"G"gg2 g g2 ed|"Am"cc2c A2ag|"D7"f2fe dc BA|"G"G2"D7"af"G"g2||
Dave

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Name of this tune???
From: cnd
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 07:15 PM

Kinda (generously) sounds like a version of Sugar In The Gourd, I think, but I'm not always the best at this sort of thing.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Name of this tune???
From: Helen
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 07:21 PM

Hi Dave,

I usually use the ABC Converter at the MandolinTab website but it is down at present. Is there another ABC Converter online somewhere?

We play at least one of Stan Treacy's tunes in our session group.

Thanks,
Helen in Newcastle, NSW

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Name of this tune???
From: cnd
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 07:29 PM

I used this one -- though you do have to download an output file.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Name of this tune???
From: Helen
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 10:20 PM

Thanks cnd! :-)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Name of this tune???
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 02:30 PM

I don't recognise the tune, but there are sites with info, music notation and audio files of many of Stan Treacy's tunes, e.g.

Bush Traditions: Stan Treacy tunes

DaveJohnson, I expect you have checked out a lot of these sites. You said you have transcribed this tune. I'm wondering how you heard Stan Treacy play this. Was it live, or on a radio show, or recorded? More information might help to narrow down the search.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Name of this tune???
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 04:41 PM

cnd, I hear the similarity too. (I apologise because I forgot to look for this tune when you mentioned it so I've delayed in commenting on it.)

Tommy Jackson - Sugar in the Gourd

In fact, I was just thinking of St Annes Reel) (plus The Merry Blacksmiths starts at 2 m 10 s on video) , not because I think it's the same tune, but because of the similarity of the rhythm and style.

According to the book Folksongs of Australia Volume 2, by J. Meredith, R. Covell and P Brown, Stan Treacy was born in 1900 and played fiddle for dances in Crookwell, NSW in rural Australia.

There is a tradition of a lot of American tunes coming to Australia, especially from the many gold diggers who came over here from the U.S.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Name of this tune???
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 06:45 PM

HELEN -

Re: Tommy Jackson "Sugar in the Gourd" thread above 4:41p.m.

Sounds like a medly of "Going Up Cripple Creek" and "Zip Coon / Turkey in the Straw".

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

nice fiddling

Subject: RE: Req: Name of this Stan Treacy tune???
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 08:57 PM

Helen: There is a tradition of a lot of American tunes coming to Australia, especially from the many gold diggers who came over here from the U.S.

If you haven't already, check out Harry Rickards and the Tivoli circuit. It was a regular jaunt for many European & American world tours of the day.

Subject: RE: Req: Name of this Stan Treacy tune???
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 10:23 PM

Thanks for the links about theatre performers, Phil d'Conch.

When I mentioned the American tunes coming to Australia I was referring to the gold diggers who probably sang and played instruments for their own amusement rather than professional performers. There would have been opportunities to share and compare songs and tunes in a setting which was more informal than a theatre, like sitting around a campfire in a gold mining settlement.

Subject: RE: Req: Name of this Stan Treacy tune???
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 02:40 AM

Helen: Yes, I caught the gold digger part. Not the thread for it but... any examples?

I imagine you've likely witnessed for yourself (semi)pros sitting around sharing and comparing songs and tunes in informal settings. Campfires are nice tho... outdoors... in season... with a permit.

Subject: RE: Req: Name of this Stan Treacy tune???
From: Helen
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 02:59 AM

Well, one of the songs I was thinking about is Marching Through Georgia which was reworked as
The Golden Gullies Of The Palmer .

Subject: RE: Req: Name of this Stan Treacy tune???
From: Helen
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 02:13 PM

DaveJohnson, I'm wondering what you think of cnd's suggestion for a tune which is similar to Stan Treacy's mystery tune.

Subject: RE: Req: Name of this Stan Treacy tune???
From: DaveJohnson
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 05:12 PM

Thanks for all the ideas folks. I have followed through on them but what is missing is the latin-american syncopation. This is what makes this tune so beguiling. Stan was not slow to lift tunes from contemporary (his) hits. There is a tune that has been named the White Cockatoo (because of perceived similarity with White Cockade) but it was a popular song on the early 50s The Hop Scotch Polka.
Incidentally it was collected by Don Brian who was living in Crookwell and teaching at the High School.
The mystery tune is much later (at least in Australia) than the tunes brought to the goldfields and the ones brought by the travelling minstrel shows. For the moment it is called Stan goes Latin-American.

Subject: RE: Req: Name of this Stan Treacy tune???
From: Helen
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 05:18 PM

Thanks Dave. Good luck with your search.

I didn't mean to imply that your mystery tune was from goldfields era. I was just using that as an example of the interactions between international musicians in Australia prior to the communications technology we have now.