Origin: Over the Waterfall

Subject: History of Over The Waterfall
From: brenirish
Date: 22 Sep 98 - 08:36 AM

Looking for history of Over the Waterfall and Mississippi Sawyer

Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 01:53 AM

Somebody posted the lyrics to "Over the Waterfall" a while back. Click here to get there. No history of the song was posted, though.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: mcmud
Date: 24 Sep 98 - 01:00 AM

Hedy West does a real nice rendition of Mississippi Sawyer. Quoting the note in the album, " [MS] was probably well known on the South before it appeared in print for the first time in 1839 in a collection of fiddle tunes called "Virginia Reels" edited by George P. Knault of Farmville, Virginia. It had some currency in the Mid West, but became standard in Southern fiddle and string-band repetoire by the 1920's when it appeared often on disc. The tune apparently was composed in America, and it is never associated with a text."

Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: Michael S
Date: 10 May 04 - 02:39 PM

I am also interested in the history of Over the Waterfall. A search in the Digitrad and Forum produced this thread. It led to the lyrics, but no history, and this inquiry died a quick death when first posed. Does anyone know anything about where the tune came from, who recorded it early on, etc? (Though Mississippi Sawyer was also a subject of the initial post, I'm not personally curious about that one, at least right now).

Thanks to all.

michael

Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: Mark Ross
Date: 10 May 04 - 04:17 PM

OVER THE WATERFALL seems to come to us from the playing of Henry Reed. I think it was one of the tunes that Alan Jabbour learned from him and passed on in the late '60's string band revival. A great tune, it was once so much over-played that some music stores had it at the top of the list of tunes that would get you ejected for playing as they'd heard them so many times before. It seems to be coming back into fashion now.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: Michael S
Date: 10 May 04 - 06:14 PM

Thank you, Mark.

With this info, I checked out the Hollow Rock String Band's initial album on the County Sales website. Hollow Rock, for those unfamiliar, was the band with which Jabbour fiddled, and with whom he recorded the tunes of Henry Reed. There, among the listed tracks, is Over the Waterfall.

There's an interesting discussion of Hollow Rock here.

Thanks again.

---Michael
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Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 10 May 04 - 07:19 PM

The story I heard (I think from John Morris) was that Henry Reed went to the circus and learned "Over the Waterfall" from a carousel.

Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: masato sakurai
Date: 10 May 04 - 08:29 PM

Info is at Ceolas - The Fiddler's Companion:

OVER THE WATERFALL

MISSISSIPPI SAWYER

Henry Reed's recordings are at Fiddle Tunes of the Old Frontier: The Henry Reed Collection.

G.P. Knauff's collection of Virginia Reels is at the Levy Collection of Sheet Music. "Mississippi Sawyer" is HERE.

Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: Mark Ross
Date: 11 May 04 - 05:15 PM

Just talked to Alan Jabbour about this tune and he says that it probably dates from the early 19th Century. He has found a version of it in a mid-19th C.British collection of tunes under a different name. He also told me that there is another set of words EGGS AND MARROWBONE about a wife trying to kill her husband.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 May 04 - 05:45 PM

Eggs and Marrowbone discussed in thread 50419: Eggs marrowbone

Also other threads.

Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 May 04 - 08:31 PM

One or the other of my heap of books cites a specific "event" in relation to "Mississippi Sawyer." My recollection is that they named a particular mill that had a dance to celebrate the opening (date known), and the owner of the mill (named) played the tune.

I've been through the primary suspects (sources) without finding the tale, so I guess for the present it remains apocryphal. Even if true (questionable even if I can find the quote) it's likely that the player knew the tune, and it's only the "calling it that" that traces to the mill opening. There was no indication of what it might have been called before.

Since I didn't find anything in 2 of my 3 Lomax (where'd I put the other one?), Kennedy, Warner, Sandburg, or other "reasonably reliable" collectors, and none of the 12 tunebooks it's in have any comment, it may have come from a SingOut! fable (which unfortunately I haven't fully indexed).

Maybe if I take my meds my memory will come back.....

John

Subject: RE: History of Over The Waterfall
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 12 May 04 - 06:37 PM

Living on a mighty river (the Missouri) I know of a "sawyer" being a kind of snag, a downed tree whose branches "saw" back and forth in the current presenting a particularly dangerous hazard for boatmen, especially if the branches partially blocked the main channel. The tune is old enough (with that name) to have been popular among river boatmen prior to the Lewis and Clark expedition. I have heard it was one of the tunes that Pierre Cruzotte (the one-eyed fiddle player who accidentally shot Merriwhether Lewis on the return trip) was asked to play during the rare rest periods the corps managed.

I have no knowledge of the origins of Over the Waterfall and I'm sure there is no connection between the two but I DID learn them at the same time while on a river trip, with the San Francisco Folk Music Club, down the Sacramento river where we were asked to play nothing but songs relating to water. It is amazing how many songs of that subject there are.

CB

PS might be a fun thread!