How can a folkie make a living?

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 07:55 PM

From reading Mudcat postings it appears some augment their income by stealing fiddles and guitars and then hocking them pawn-shops.

100 !

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: GUEST,biff
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 07:57 PM

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: GUEST,biff
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 07:59 PM

how to entertain an audience...a little candy now and then doesn't mean you've sold out. you gotta give them something..some hooks some attitude some visual. a little flash is part of professionalism and can make songs and performance better. works for me.

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: t.jack
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 08:40 AM

Across the water here, i have been on the road,yes on the road hitchiking selling my CD( SOME MOTHERS SON )it is quite interesting what comes up,house concerts everything,people are alive there is no rehersal its life ,Nova Scotia TO British Columbia to the North West Territories,you got to get out there and get the pulse..GET IT?

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 07:06 AM

in my case I also have a website,which apart from my cds,has a songbook
my own songs,plus two concertina tutors.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 08:35 AM

you know we call it playing,try going on stage with a hard hat and steel toes,now your working//music it seems is an addiction and most club managers know musicians need their fix so they hoste open mikes and open jams,da,bla,bla at the end of the night you go home with your guitar..boy that was fun cost me two beer or whatever.stupid.it is work and the bar ows you coffee free or a drink free or something,if the till rings its because you sing..

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 08:57 AM

On the serious side, the "folkies" I know who make a modest living at their craft are not only competent musicians but well-organized people, and likable people as well.

One doesn't have to be brilliant on all three counts to achieve some success but you have to at least register in each category.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: Hamish
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:32 PM

There's a bit of arithmetic which should be taken into account: a solo act takes 100% of the fee. Duos get 50% each. Trios get 33.3% each...

...get the idea?

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: GUEST,Paul Reade
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:03 PM

The number of folk clubs now who book artists regularly is very limited, perhaps a few with "regional" singers and occasional "headliners". Set this against the fact that a soloist would need to do an average of one gig a week at a fee of £200 just to make the annual equivalent of the 2008 National Minimum Wage (£5.52 an hour, about £11,500 a year for a 40-hour week) and it's obvious the figures don't add up.

In the 70s I played some well-paid but crap gigs, such as a Young Farmers' social where everyone got drunk and loudly chatted up Young Farmer-esses whilst we provided background music. We soon decided we had day jobs and didn't need the money and would rather do floor spots or the occasional booking in a folk club, to a smaller audience who were at least prepared to listen.

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: GUEST, an interested reader
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 06:30 PM

I just want to put this out there: just because you love the music doesn't mean people will want to listen to you. I'm sorry if this sounds unkind, but no one seems to be mentioning that perhaps some people are not finding an audience because they're not that talented or accomplished. I used to go to concerts often but I stopped because it was the same thing over and over again, and folk music performers were only rarely outstanding musicians. Folk/trad music doesn't necessarily belong on a stage - it's music for people to do together, not to passively listen to. It's the rare musician who can add something special to make it interesting for a concert. Maybe some people who are struggling should think hard about the message their lack of audience is sending.

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: jimmyt
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:36 AM

music performance is taking a huge huge hit from karioke, canned music, dj's every other computer generated crap that replaces musicians. When I was young back in the 60's I could count on gigging every weekend with someone, either a rock group, or playing the VFW dance of a trio in a nice resturant bar. THis was in small town Ohio. LIve music was pretty much a given. Acts would come through every town of 20,000 people through booking agents and you could go out locally and hear fantastic musicians that just hadn't made the big time yet. Many of them did later on. Any more, you go to the same places and see everything BUT live performances. I have no idea what has happened to the culture that has simply allowed this to happen. This phenomena is in all genre not just Folk. My folk group gets few gigs from time to time, but most places want it either free or for so little money it is a joke.

I have a do wop group, 4 vocalists four part harmony, piano guitar bass drums and just added a horn man that plays everything. ALso a female vocalist. We get some jobs but again, I can hardly get enough money to play my instrumentalists. The rest of us do it purely for the passion. Some times after I get the fee, count the tip jar, I have to reach in my own pocket for some extra to finish paying my guys. It is a tragedy!

My horn man played professionally in LA for 40 years. He practices 8 hours every day. He is the complete musician. He is a perfectionist. He plays by ear or charts. He plays in every key. He plays all saxes, trumpet, flute, piccolo. He moved back home because there are NO JOBS for guys like him. It breaks my heart to see how hard some musicians work to make it only to be left high and dry. We do, however reward every athlete with millions when there relative skill level is certainly no better than many out of work musicians. I know I am rambling but this is a subject that just pisses me off.

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: meself
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:52 AM

"most places want it either free or for so little money it is a joke"

What - there are places that actually WANT live music?!

As for me - I'm making a living busking at the moment. It's not for everybody - I mean, it's not the way to go for all musicians; I am actually busking for everybody - and there's a certain amount of luck involved - you have to have access to a spot that has lots of pedestrian traffic, relatively little noise, and few or no other buskers. Come to think of it - I really have lucked out, haven't I?

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: jimmyt
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 12:44 PM

I have always wanted to try busking. I have heard some outstanding musicians busking! Good for you!

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: GUEST,Jenny Brampton
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 03:31 PM

Running your own venue and cooking big artists. That way you get to support them and benefit from the income on the door.
JB

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: GUEST,The Folk Entertainer
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 04:01 PM

60 % talent 40% businessman. You will fail if you are not a good businessman

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: meself
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 04:05 PM

"I have heard some outstanding musicians busking!"

Yup - and then there's me .... !

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 08:49 AM

"ENDS
Within the broader music industry, and beyond, what some get for their hour's work, compared with others, is ridiculous and inhumane; hence, many relatively competent musicians within the folk-scene are really struggling to make ends meet; so, if we like fair competition, we don't like capitalism. A better way, as I've suggested in verse, is to accept that humans are competitive, and have strong regulations (partly via nationalisation) to make that competition as fair as possible – whilst also providing "safety-net" support" (from here).

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 12:02 PM

I `ad that busker in my cab the other night. `e looked well tired and `ungry. `ed been bashing away down the Waterloo underground all day.
I said, " `ere, my old mate, you look like you could do with a warm fire and a good meal."
`e said, " You`re right there Jim. I`ve been giving it loud for `ours and all I got to show for it is 35 Yen. The place is chock-a-block with Japanese tourists"
I said, with a bit of a chuckle, "Not to worry. With all that you`ll be o.k. in that Nip restaurant on the Charing Cross Road."
`e said, " Nah. The trouble is I `ate all that Oriental grub!!"

Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: TheSnail
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 01:57 PM

Busker? Taking a taxi?

Subject: RE: How can a folkie make a living?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 09:56 AM

There are a very few that are making a comfortable living at singing folk music.
Many are doing songs they've written themselves or branching out into other kinds
of material, jazz songs, classical etc.

I think the day of Burl Ives has ended. The shows have gotten too big and commercialized.
Dry ice, flashing lights dominate. Not many are interested in listening to a good song unadorned with high production techniques.

There will be those however who are endowed with a gift to entertain and have an aura
of charisma. We know who they are. I don't know how much this can be developed.

I suspect that in the UK scene, there is not a lot or even a comfortable amount of money to
be made. Listening to Child ballads is not a usual crowd pleaser.

There are those in the States who have a huge production budget comparatively. Joan Baez and Leonard Cohen bring a full blown "show" with their acts. (This is assuming that both of these performers could be called folk singers any more).

Audiences seem to cheer those who with clever stage patter or can tear it up with
virtuoso instrumental ability. Just an unadorned song doesn't cut it any more.

A lot of this has to do with what is called "entertainment" these days. Personally, I find
that a lot of the big ticket concerts are not interesting to me. Also too expensive.
I don't frequent clubs or places that permit smoking. I prefer having people in my home to share music or jamming jazz with my buddies. I think many people share this view and this is why folk concerts are on the wane.

The solution (at the risk of being redundant) is to hone your craft the best you can. Voice lessons, acting lessons, writing skills for patter, research on folk material, even movement classes can help you here.

As Naomi Klein describes her mother's mode of apparel, I think the same adjective can apply to many "folkies". The word is "schlumpy". (Good Yiddishism, I think).