Origins: The lad with his trousers on

Subject: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: Santa
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 03:28 PM

As sung by the Winterset on their latest CD, in a set of fragments from the North East.

"The lad with his trousers on
he says he will not have me."

Had this been a folk song, then getting said trousers off would have sorted the matter out fairly quickly. However, as presumably this is from a music-hall song, it is likelier to be marriage that the lad is refusing.

But what is this song telling us, about a sub-culture in 19th(?) century Tyneside where some lads have trousers and others, by default, do not? What did this sub-class wear instead? Is it that the singer is not good enough for the lad rich enough to wear trousers?

Has anyone any helpful information about the origins and meanings of this song? A few extra words might help, or does it only exist in fragmentary form?

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 06:06 PM

Trousers - as distinct from the breeches worn ashore at the time - denote the dress of a common sailor. Date circa 1780. The song Jackie Tar which goes with the hornpipe of the same name refers; see also Cobbett on the subject of Deal, Kent, referring to a "very vile place" and its "trowsered" occupants.
KYBTTS

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: Santa
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 08:08 AM

Thank you for the help: which means all the fragments in the set are to do with the sea and river life. The boy is thus a sailor or perhaps a keelman? A bonnie keel laddie?

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 02:22 PM

Can't remember that one, but "Come ashore jolly tar with your trousers on" ýs the earliest version of the tune now known as "The Cuckoo's Nest". It's from Elizabethan England.

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 04:33 PM

Same song Jack - and was refined and printed at Seven Dials as a broadsheet between about 1820 and 1840. By that time the tune was still recognisable as a descendant of Cuckoo's Nest. Roy Palmer has it in "Boxing the Compass".

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: Santa
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 08:40 AM

The last line of Jackie Tar bounces along to the tune in the Winterset piece, but the sentiment has reversed.

As I recall, the sleeve notes say that the fragments were found whilst browsing in Peter Woods' library, but are ambiguous about how much was found. The set includes part of The Weary Cutters, which certainly is known in fuller versions, but I don't recognise "I'll sit upon the pier 'til the tide comes in", "Up to smoky Shields, handy for bonnie Newcastle" or the title piece "Blue's gone out of the fashion, red's come in with the new, I'll have a sailor laddie and dye my apron blue."

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 11:04 AM

Tony Cuffe used to sing a version of "Jacky Tar" which had the last line of each verse as "...with his trousers on". It was more or less to the tune known in Ireland as "The Cuckoo's Nest", the 3-part hornpipe. I believe he got his version of the song from "Ord's Bothy Ballads". Sadly he never recorded it.

Subject: ADD: Jacky Tar
From: Vic Smith
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 12:23 PM

GUEST,kenny wrote
I believe he got his version of the song from "Ord's Bothy Ballads".
It's on Page 324 and 335 of Ord where the words are:-

JACKY TAR. Air.—" Jack   Tar   Hornpipe." WHEN Jack had pulled the oar, and the boat had gone, Left his lassie on the shore with her head hanging down, The tears stood in her eyes, and her bosom heaving sighs, Fareweel, my dear, she cries, with your trousers on. Fareweel, said he, I go to sea, and you must stay behind, But do not grieve, for while I live I ever will prove kind; And when I come to land you must meet me on the strand, And welcome Jacky Tar, with his trousers on. Now peace is proclaimed, and the wars are all o'er, The fleet is moor'd, and the sailors come ashore; Now you may see her stand, with a glass in her hand, To welcome Jack to land, with his trousers on. While up on high she caught his eye with all her lovely charms, Then quickly from aloft he came and took her in his arms; Her hand he kindly pressed, as he held her round the waist; And he kissed the bonnie lassie, with his trousers on. O! where have you been since you left me? Or what ills have you seen upon the raging sea? I have mourned for your sake, till my heart was like to break, For I thought I'd ne'er see Jack, with his trousers on. And while you stayed I sigh'd and pray'd to Neptune and to Mars, That they would prove kind and send you home from the wars: And to my request they have pleased for to list, And sent you home to my breast, with your trousers on. I've sailed the seas for you to the Torrid Zone, From the confines of Peru to Van Dieman's Land, From the Bay of Baltimore to the coast of Labrador; But now I'm safe on shore, with my trousers on. I've faced the storms in many forms upon the raging main; I've fought my foes with deadly blows, and many a hero slain; I've heard the cannons roar, I've been rolled in blood and gore; But now I'm safe on shore, with my trousers on. I've been aloft when the winds they have blown, And I've been aloft when the bombs were thrown; But, like a sailor bold, I've now come from the hold With my pockets full of gold and my trousers on. And now no more from shore to shore I'll plough the raging seas, But from the strife, as man and wife, we'll live in peace and ease. To the church this couple hied, and the priest the knot has tied, And the sailor kissed his bride, with his trousers on.

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: Santa
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 05:19 AM

Correction on my part: rereading the sleeve, the fragments come from Northumbrian Minstrelsy. It still isn't clear to me how much more might be there.

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 11:22 AM

You can find out easily enough. A paperback facsimile edition of Northumbrian Minstrelsy can be bought from http://www.llanerchpress.com/ at a mere £14.94 plus p&p.

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: radriano
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 12:08 PM

Can't resist some shameless adverising here.

I recorded "Jackie Tar" on my 2002 shanty album "Time Ashore is Over" - it's a great song and should be sung more.

Lyrics to this song and many more less common sea songs and shanties on our website:

Handspikes.com

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: Santa
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 12:41 PM

Thanks to both:I have your CD and shall order the Minstrelsy, probably after playing the CD.

Subject: RE: Origins: The lad with his trousers on
From: Santa
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 03:30 PM

The Minstrelsy arrived today, thanks to Lanerch press and Malcolm. The songs do indeed only exist in fragments, although in two cases there are slightly more to them then appear on the CD.

I did notice, however, that Lousy Cutters and Here's the Tender Coming were also only printed as fragments, rather than the full versions sung today. There seems to be only a small amount in Mudcat threads on either,with perhaps rather more on Cutters suggesting that only the fragment is original. But this is under the heading of a Sunderland song - surely as Newcastle lasses they wouldn't be singing a Sunderland song?