Lyr Req: Cornish Ploughboys

Subject: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: radriano
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 02:31 PM

Can anyone in Mudcat Land help me out with the chorus of a song called "Cornish Ploughboys"? This songs is from Tom & Barbara Brown's lovely cd Where Umber Flows. It sounds like part of the chorus is a list of horse (or oxen?) names:

While still you are sleeping we rise in the morn
To plough for the farmer that he may grow corn
..............................................
Come [hoop?] along, chip along, hark to us now
For we are the lads that can drive on the plough


radriano

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: MMario
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 02:45 PM

The collins version was posted here

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: MMario
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 02:51 PM

the same list of names appears in Oxen Ploughing songs

Subject: Lyr Add: CORNISH PLOUGHBOYS
From: radriano
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 06:25 PM

Thanks for those links MMario!

I did search the DT & Forum but I should know by now that a search on a specific title often gets no hits. The song sung by Johnny Collins is close to what Tom & Barbara Brown call Cornish Ploughboys but their chorus is a bit different as well as are some of the lyrics. But once I saw the names written out I was able to hear what Browns were singing a bit clearer. The names of the oxen are virtually the same with the order being different in the first two names:

CORNISH PLOUGHBOYS Tom & Barbara Brown, Where Umber Flows

Come all you fair maids and hark to my lays
Saying what can compare to the ploughboy's sweet voice
Who cheerin' his oxen so gaily do sing
For he makes both the hills and the valleys to ring

Chorus
While still you are sleeping we rise in the morn
To plough for the farmer that he may grow corn
With Beauty, Spark, Berry, Goodluck, Speedwell, Cherry
Come [hoop?] along, chip along, hark to us now
For we are the lads that can drive on the plough

All the tradesmen they stand so grim and so grand
As if 'twer the trades that supported the land
Oh but let the plough stand for a very short space
And you'll soon see those tradesmen to pull a long face

Had the miller no corn, no meal could he sell
The mill must stand idle and the miller as well
The baker no bread for the poor could provide
Poor farmer and miller must all starve beside

And now that my song's almost at it's end
Let us hope that the ploughboys will ne'er want a friend
Here's a health to all ploughboys so sweetly they sing
Here's a health to our farmer and God save the King


Radriano

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: Snuffy
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 07:52 PM

THE OXEN PLOUGHING is in the DT with the attribution
From English Country Songbook, Palmer
Collected from Adam Landry, Cornwall, 1895

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: MMario
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 09:06 PM

"Come up along" or "come hump along" both could possibly end up sounding like your come hoop along.

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 09:30 PM

Collected by Sabine Baring Gould from Adam Landry at Trebartha. Later on, Baring Gould and H. Fleetwood Sheppard got a set from Joseph Dyer at Mawgan-in-Pyder, which might explain why the text given in Songs of the West (revised edition, 1905) includes a verse not in Roy Palmer's English Country Songs (1979). Cecil Sharp found variants in Devon and Somerset, and more recently Fred Hamer published a set from Frank Rowe of East Cornwall (Garners Gay, 1967); that's the version of which Johnny Collins recorded an arrangement, mentioned earlier. I'm guessing at the moment that the version recorded by the Browns came from Ralph Dunstan's Cornish Song Book (1929); did they give any indication as to source on their record?

Roud Folk Song Index number 686. Hoop would be Whoop, incidentally, as in the Rowe set.

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: Anglo
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 10:40 PM

The Browns' version is indeed similar to Dunstan's song "The Plough-Boy." I've not heard it so I don't know their tune. The one Dunstan gives, unlike the one in DT (from Palmer - not quite identical to the one Baring-Gould gives in Songs of the West) is completely in 3/4 time. Dunstan says: This is a "restoration" from the Warleggan Song (Old Cornwall, No. 8, p.38) by Mr. R. Morton Nance, June 12 1929. The tune is adapted from an old English melody, and embodies part of the Ox-Driver's Song).

This latter is a fragment, again in 3/4. The text runs: "Neat" and "Comely," "Spark" and "Beauty," "Gowdlock," "Speedwell!" For we are the lads that do follow the plough.

The major textual difference is that Dunstan has an extra verse (given as verse 2):

In the heat of the day no work is to do;
Our plough clapped aside for an hour or two,
On banks of sweet wild-thyme we then take our rest,
Where sunshine is tempered with winds from the west.

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: radriano
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 11:46 AM

Thanks to all!

Malcolm, I don't have the album with me at the moment but it does include some liner notes. I'll bring it with me tomorrow and post those notes (I only have access to the internet at work). In addition, I've e-mailed Tom & Barbara Brown about the chorus to "Cornish Ploughboys" - I'll post their answer.

Anglo, one of the names on the Brown's album could indeed be "Gowdlock." I had a bit of trouble with dialect.

Radriano

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: radriano
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 11:49 AM

Here are the liner notes for Cornish Ploughboys from Tom & Barbara Brown's cd Where Umber Flows:

"A version of the 'Cornish Ox-driver's Song' - more usually known in the version collected at Mawgan in Pyder from Joseph Dyer. I had this version from Dave Huthnance at the folk club that Mervyn Vincent and Charlie Bate used to run at the Bridge on Wool in Wadebridge back in the 1960s. I was only 16 at the time - Dave Huthnance was only 15! I suspect that, in this form, the song owes a fair bit to Ralph Dunstan." - Tom Brown.

Radriano

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 12:14 PM

Thanks for the information.

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: radriano
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 05:20 PM

Here's the response I got from Tom & Barbara Brown about this song:

The song is properly called 'The Ox-driver's Song' - Cornish Ploughboys is really just a familiar title) and the bit that's probably unintelligible is the list of the oxen's names, so here goes:

For while still you are sleeping we rise in the morn
To plough for the farmer, so he may grow corn.
With Beauty, Spark, Berry, Gowdlock, Speedwell, Cherry,
Come whoop along, jip along, hark to us now,
For we are the lads that can drive on the plough.

Just in case they don't grow in America, the Gowdlock is the West Country name for the 'Gowan' (as they call it in Scotland) otherwise known as the Ox-eye daisy, and the Speedwell is a small wild plant with an intense blue flower - but here they're simply the names of the three pairs of oxen. Six oxen - big field - so I suspect the song doesn't originate in Cornwall as the fields are too small and they don't grow very much corn there anyway. There are a couple of other versions which have 'Hop along, jump along, here drives my lad along' instead of 'Whoop' and 'Jip' but I was told by an old guy who used to work horses that 'Whoop' and 'Jip' are the correct calls used to turn the team left or right respectively at the end of a furrow!

Subject: RE: Help with chorus of 'Cornish Ploughboys'
From: radriano
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 02:56 PM

Anglo, Tom & Barbara Brown sing this in 3/4 time as well.

Subject: ADD: The Plough-boy (Ox-Driver)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 11:08 AM

Thanks to Anglo, I now have the text and tune as Dunstan published them, so here they are. Not very different from the Brown recording, apparently:

THE PLOUGH-BOY

("Restored" from the Warleggan song [Old Cornwall, No.8, p.38] by Mr. R. Morton Nance, June 12, 1929)

O, come all you fair maids, and tell me your choice;
Say what can compare with the ploughboy's sweet voice,
Who cheering his oxen so gaily doth sing,
He causes the hills and the valleys to ring.

Chorus:

While still you are sleeping we rise in the morn,
To plough for the farmer, that he may grow corn,
With Beauty, Spark, Berry, Goodluck, Speedwell, Cherry
Come whoop-a-long! Jip-a-long! Hark to us now,
For we are the lads that can drive on the plough!

In the heat of the day no work is to do;
Our plough clapped aside for an hour or two,
On banks of sweet wild-thyme we then take our rest,
Where sunshine is tempered with winds from the west.

O, the tradesmen they look so grim and so grand,
As if t'were their trade that supported the land;
But let the plough stand for a very short space,
You'ld soon see those tradesmen to pull a long face.

Had the miller no corn, no meal could he sell;
The mill must stand idle and the miller as well;
The baker no bread for the poor could provide,
And farmer and miller must both starve beside.

And so, now that my song's almost at it's end,
I hope that the ploughboys will ne'er want a friend;
Here's health to them all, as so sweetly they sing,
And health to the farmer and God save the King!

From The Cornish Song Book (Lyver Canow Kernow), Ralph Dunstan, 1929; re-printed 1974. © Ascherberg, Hopwood & Crew Ltd. The last two lines of the chorus are indicated to be sung twice.

The unidentified "old English melody" from which the tune was adapted does sound rather familiar, but I can't place it. A midi of the tune is destined for The Mudcat Midi Pages, and menwhile can be heard via the South Riding Folk Network site:

The Plough-Boy (midi: vocal line).

Dunstan's arrangement for piano is quite pleasant of its type, so here is a midi of the full score:

The Plough-Boy (midi: full arrangement).