Help: Celtic clothing questions

Subject: Celtic clothing questions
From: WyoWoman
Date: 26 Sep 00 - 11:29 PM

Ok, this may not technically be celtic, but I liked the alliteration so ... deal with it.

Anyway:

In a couple of songs I have on my Black Family CD and Mary Black CD, there's reference to "moleskin trousers" (e.g. in "Schooldays Over," "time to be wearing the moleskin trousers, time to be going away..." and also in "The Leaboy's Lassie," there's a reference to moleskin trousers). Is this poetic shorthand for "working class" or laborer?

Also:

In Kate Rusby's "Bold Riley," she sings that "come White Stocking Day you'll be drinking rum..." What does that mean?

thanks, ww

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Sep 00 - 01:39 AM

Moleskin was a type of material, like the little soft pads you can buy to put on sore toes? From Dr. Scholl's? That's what it's always meant in a medical way, at least, that I know of. You don't 'spose they actually made trousers of moles, do you? Oh gawd, think of how many it would take, esp. if you were a big guy like our Mick!? Perish the thought!!!

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 27 Sep 00 - 08:24 AM

Moleskin Trousers are made from a very fine corduroy with a slight nap. Commonly trousers for gamekeepers and farm worksers were made of this so it does imply a countryman

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: Áine
Date: 27 Sep 00 - 09:04 AM

Dear WyoWoman,

Somebody brought up 'white stockings' back in February, in the What does 'white stocking day' mean thread. Can't remember if it ever got sorted out to anyone's satisfaction, though.

And as far as I know, Wandering Minstrel's got it in one about the trousers.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: Llanfair
Date: 27 Sep 00 - 09:30 AM

The thing about moleskin is that the "hair" goes straight up, instead of lying one way or the other like hair or fur does.
Proper moles have this kind of fur so that they can go forwards or backwards easily in their tunnels. Moleskin is, I think, a cotton fabric, like hardwearing velvet.
This may sound a bit garbled, I've got a virus and not seeing, or thinking, straight!
Cheers, Bron.

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Sep 00 - 02:33 PM

Just so.  Moleskin was a fabric which resembled the fur of a mole to the eye and touch ("...a superior kind of fustian, double-twilled, cropped before dying" -Chambers Dictionary) much used in the 19th and early 20th centuries for working trousers where warmth and durability were important, for example in mining and on the farm.  The cheaper corduroy trousers were sometimes called "moleskins" by analogy.  Real moleskin was used for various purposes, one being as a cover on the cylindrical moulds used for making drainage tiles, to prevent the clay from sticking to them; it may have been used in clothing at times (I seem to recall reading about a real moleskin waistcoat belonging to a molecatcher), but I doubt if such things were ever common, or indeed Celtic!

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: Noreen
Date: 27 Sep 00 - 04:11 PM

Moleskin is still around- husband bought some moleskin knee breeches on Skipton market not that long ago, for walking purposes (he doesn't always dress that way). :0)

And son has some dark green moleskin trousers from Marks & Spencer. Moleskin has a lovely soft, brushed feel, but is strong & warm. Sorry, getting carried away here....

Noreen

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: Kara
Date: 27 Sep 00 - 04:17 PM

Go on Noreen get carried away
Kara

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Sep 00 - 01:57 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: WyoWoman
Date: 28 Sep 00 - 02:08 AM

Great. Many thanks, all. And I'l go check out White Stocking Day in the other thread.

ww

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:51 AM

G'day Malcolm (et al,

Moleskin is not Celtic, it is archetypically British. It was standard wear for British sailors in cold climes, hard wearing and warm.

Australians (of European extraction) - who had to get here by ship, in the 19th century, adopted a lot of sailores' habits, including moleskins - usually fawn or white (still 'Bush' [country] formal). I wore moleskins for winter when I worked as a jackhammerman in the Tasmanian Hydro and the Snowy Mts Scheme in the '60s - even though it was pretty dirty work, the warmth and comfort were worth it.

One song I probably submitted a month back (may not yet be in DT - unless it was already there from someone else) is Duke Tritton's Great Northern Line, where the bullocky's girlfriend boast of him
My love he is a teamster, a handsome man is he,
Red shirt, white moleskin trousers and a hat of cabbage tree.
(all items of 'flash' clothing).

Incidentally, I discovered, via the Art Gallery of New South Wales) that the French used to sell artists notebook bound in waterproof clothe they called molesquine - presumably confusing the English oilskin and moleskin and my French dictionay gives molesquine as "waterproof cloth".

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: WyoWoman
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 01:08 AM

That's great, Bob. Thanks. what fun, the way music and language interweave...

I actually have had a pair of moleskin pants before -- at least it was called moleskin. Or wale-less corduroy. It's very tightly woven, which I suppose helps it resist moisture and cold.

ww

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: MMario
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 01:10 AM

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 01:30 AM

G'day WyoWoman,

Both Corduroy and Moleskin are cloths of the type called Fustian. Fustians have a fine nap on the inside of the cloth and would be one reason for them being warm in winter, yet not clingy in hot conditions (something Australia has a lot of). The term 'fustian' has come to mean academically boring or stodgy, presumably because the cloth was durable and practical for the sort of university academic that grew more boring with the years.

I followed Bugsy's lead in the other "Moleskin" thread to our local country outfitter RM Williams' site and I notice that the Poms learnt to make moleskin from the displaced French Hugenots. This brings me another distant connection with the subject, as the Dalmers, ancestors on my mother's side, where Hugenots who fled to England.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Help: Celtic clothing questions
From: WyoWoman
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 08:29 PM

and the raveling threads re-weave themselves ...

ww