BS: Worst War Film

Subject: BS: Worst War Film
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 08:37 AM

Not wanting to hijack Cluin's "Crappy Movies" thread, I thought I would start another one on the subject of the worst war movie. Little Hawk and Bobad were having an interesting discussion about a war movie, so I thought I would throw the floor open and ask what is the worst war movie you have ever seen?
The first candidate which springs to my mind, is the ghastly "The Green Berets", starring John Wayne as an officer with the tactical sense of a bull and the political acumen of a newt. What other candidates came to mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:06 AM

The Sound of music!

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:07 AM

Below Knee Amputations

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:08 AM

The rest of the post got dropped!

BKA was a b&w training flick which ranked just a little tiny bit below the veneral disease film about the German spy infecting the Bold American Soldier with syphilis.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,The Worst
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:25 AM

A Midnight Clear
A Guy Named Joe
Life is Beautiful
Kelly's Heroes
Rambo II
Rambo III
Hell in the Pacific
The Dirty Dozen
Paratrooper

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:26 AM

Don't forget "Sands of Iwo Jima".

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: number 6
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:35 AM

They are all pretty bad.

But I must say the best 'war' movie and a good movie period was "the Thin Red Line"

flamenco ted ... Sound of Music .. very good !

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:35 AM

Plenty of turkeys, but I nominate Saving Pvt Ryan.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:49 AM

Rapaire, that training flick about the GI and the spy sounds unmissable. Would it fit into a list of the unintentionally funny films? It sounds hilarious.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,The Worst
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:49 AM

Because...?

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:53 AM

Whoops left off the rest:
Plenty of turkeys, but I nominate Saving Pvt Ryan.
Very smug, self-congratulatory, dull and melodramatic. Despite all their claims to realism, it looks like 'designer dirt'.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:03 AM

What was that terible film that had the Americans winning the war in Burma ??

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:07 AM

Any war films with Amercans in them (ONLY JOKING)

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,The Worst
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:08 AM

I see "SPR" differently (in spite of the plot). But really, rent "A Guy Named Joe." It meets and surpasses your standards of badness AND mine. All in all, it may well be THE worst big-budget war movie ever made. Loved by millions, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:29 AM

Leadfingers,you are talking about Objective Burma.Objective Burma
If I recall my history, American forces were not involved in the Burma campaign, which makes the basis for this plot look decidedly dodgy!

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:39 AM

I understand the reaction of some to "Saving Private Ryan", but it is in the same class as "Thin Red Line" as being a not-to-subtle invocation to some concept or other. Both films were excellently crafted and acted, however.

Carrying over from the Crappy movie thread, both "Gettysburg" and "Gods And Generals" restore an American defect in historical cinema that I thought we were beginning to get over: having all the characters show up in their Sunday best for a few weekends of play acting. The Brits are just as good at the preparation, but they at least throw a little dust and cobwebs over everything before they start filming. In addition, the Ted Turner financed epics advance not so much a Southern frame of reference, which would be okay, but a bowdlerized version of the causes of the Civil War, They come off as a White Nationalist's dream of 'whut wuz lost'. Also written and acted as if the characters were Disney animatronix.

I'm amazed that no Brit has nominated "U-571", though I recall it being denigrated on an earlier thread. I defended it against denigration, but it wasn't a very good flick.

I'll throw in a couple-three TV Shows:

Hogan's Heroes (need I say more?)
Rat Patrol (depicted how easy it was to defeat Rommel's troops in the desert, all ya needed was a couple jeeps and four Yanks: 'c'mon, what's keepin' ya Monty?')

Guilty pleasure: McHale's Navy (who can resist the gap toothed McHale, pet prisoner, and Tim Conway? Fightin' the Japanese seemed to be the last thing on their minds...)

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:42 AM

Hmmm. This is a tough one. Hmmmmm....

Well, there are so many great candidates! Let's start with:

"The Alamo", starring John Wayne as cinema's most unlikely Davy Crockett ever. This movie is boring, interminable, stupid, and just plain BAD!

Kelly's Heroes - Totally bites.

The Green Berets - I'm sad to say I have never seen it. I avoided it as one would avoid a toxic spill of nuclear waste. I have to assume it's right up there with the worst.

In Harm's Way - A silly movie about fighting the Japanese Navy in the Guadalcanal campaign. It has a lot of shots of patently bogus models of Japanese warships...you can easily see that they are models, not real ships. (they are fairly accurate models, however, and that's something, I guess). The Japanese superbattleship Yamato makes an appearance at the end and blows away the heroic Americans. In truth, the Yamato never made such an appearance in such a battle. It did get to briefly fire on some light carriers and their escorts at Leyte Gulf, however, on a much later occasion, and then ended its career at Okinawa, smothered by hundreds of American carrier aircraft. Anyway, here's an amusing review of this pathetic movie, off the Net:

"Apparently, Pearl Harbor was some sort of victory for the USA. John Wayne was there, so how could it have been otherwise?

There have been other bogus Second World War films before, the infamous "Battle of the Bulge" (1965) for example, but this one really excels. The US Navy characters don't seem to be aware that there's a war on; it's rather like "South Pacific" without the tunes. Or an episode of "The USS Love Boat". Nothing is allowed to interfere with this soap opera's cloying plot.

Wayne gives another of his standard pigeon-toed performances. He acts as though he's appearing in some horse opera, where a ranch or maybe a few acres of sagebrush hang in the balance. Democracy vs. Totalitarianism? You'd never know it from Wayne's jolly old sea captain. Get a message out to Pearl, pilgrim.

The film was directed by Otto Preminger, which explains the wild, swingin' '60's party which provides the film's embarrassing and anachronistic opening. Preminger always prided himself on breaking cinematic taboos, which is why he must have felt compelled to produce the first and only skinny-dipping Peyton Harbor movie. All of that silly "risqué" "adult" nonsense throughout is Otto's doing.

Eventually the film does provide a brief battlewagon engagement, but you'll have enough time to break the Japanese naval code from scratch before you get there.

To paraphrase Burgess Meredith's character, you oughta get a Medal of Honor for sitting through this. "

Regarding "Saving Private Ryan" - Well, I have mixed feelings about this one. Some of the battle scenes are superb. The German tanks and other equipment look like the real thing for a change! Lovely. Some of the character parts are interesting, if rather contrived. One thing that gets on my nerves is this: the Germans in the movie show very little finesse or good judgement, and keep getting themselves killed stupidly. This was not typical of the highly experienced German army in '44. No sir. They were very good at minimizing their own casualties and maximizing those of their opponents. Had it not been for the constant Allied air supremacy, they would have won most of those battles in the West. So in that sense, it's quite unrealistic.

Here's a very fine war movie: Gallipoli.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:54 AM

Gallipoli is superb, indeed.
McHales' Navy was hilarious because it was about a gang of small-time operators trying to avoid the war and feather their nests.
George MacDonald Fraser doesn't get all the fuss about Objective Burma. As far as he knows it might be a very good portrayal of Merill's Marauders, which was primarily an American affair.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 11:11 AM

I totally forgot: the recent really really really awful version of "Pearl Harbor" done with digital effects so you could see the bazooka joe bubble gum the pilots were chewing as they flew between battleships, wingtips sparking against the gray metal...

I tend to group war flicks into genres and give them different levels of criticism based on their period and place.

There's the interesting genre of the war flicks done while the war was still on, almost on, or barely over: "Sahara", "Song of Russia", "Casablanca", "In a Lonely Place", "A Guy Named Joe", "Courtmartial of Billy Mitchell". These things are done quickly and sent to the public, some for entertainment, some for propaganda, most with an element of morale boosting for the folks at home. The effects are as cheap as they come, the editing rushed, but the look of the people and the sound of the language is of the period, even if it is hollywoodized.

Then you get the post war productions. These are often plays and screenplays written by people who were actually there, acted occasionally by people who were actually there. Out come "Run Silent Run Deep", "Mister Roberts", "South Pacific"

Then a few years later you get the riff on a theme, the impossible mission sequence, the revision of history as we know it. Here y'get "Kelly's Heroes" "The Pigeon That Saved Rome"

Along the way come some timeless classics. Some of these have an individual's point of view: "The Caine Mutiny". Some speak for millions: "The Best Years Of Our Lives". Some try to capture human truths in the midst of the clash of civilizations: "South Pacific" "Teahouse Of The August Moon".

Some films try to chronicle a particular event: "Gallipolli", "Midway", "Tora,Tora,Tora". They often come out at a decade mark after the event.

When the next war comes along, there is often a return to the 'last great war': "Patton" came out while the US was deep in Vietnam. "The Civil War" by Ken Burns came out just as the US was going in to Gulf War I.

Most recently we've been getting some very good attempts to (re)capture the immediate reality of the times. This becomes harder as we grow away from the people of the period. We are now on our third generation post WWII so the human element is by far the most difficult: Truly excellent work has been done with "Das Boot" and "Band Of Brothers".

And of course there are the Post War War Films, from the wars since the BIG ONE: "Bridges at Toko Ri" "Green Berets" "Platoon" "Blackhawk Down".

Along the way: Plenty of Action, Lots of Lies, occasionally some really precious stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 11:23 AM

"Das Boot" was a marvelous film. Another fine war film, although it's not primarily a war film, is "Lawrence of Arabia".

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Pseudolus at work
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 12:10 PM

OK, I need to defend Hogan's Heroes, not because it had great acting, because it didn't, not because it was filled with reality, cause it wasn't but because it had two things...John Banner (Sargeant Schultz) who made me laugh just by showing up and it had one of the alltime funniest lines in TV history (strictly my opinion) when Klink said to Hogan, "Hogan, How can it be sooner than I think when it's already been longer than I thought!"

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 12:29 PM

Das Boot was a superb film LH.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 12:51 PM

Robomatic ... I have to disagree with you on slotting Thin Red Line into the same class as Private Ryan. I do confess Red Line is confussing, when viewing it for the first time. It portrays not only the human element in the horror of battle but also nature. Private Ryan had one great flaw and that is it's portrayal of the 'enemy' as comic book bad guys.

One war movie I saw years ago when I was about 14yrs that made an impression on me was one called the Victors .. I haven't seen it since. I just wonder what my impresson would be i I saw it now.

Dr. Strangelove ... most certainly the best war movie of all time.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: s6k
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 01:21 PM

worst has to be Pearl Harbour... my god!

ben affleck and matt damon, or whoever, go up against 70 japanese planes in the sky.... yes, 2 against 70 - and win..... oh, that film was terrible, if you werent cursing it for being shit when you was watching it, you were laughing at just how ridiculous it was and do they actually expect you to believe that. awful film. destroy it.

the best war film is without a doubt platoon - followed by full metal jacket, the killing fields, and the TV series band of brothers.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 01:21 PM

Doctor Strangelove was a terrific film.

I found Thin Red Line to be somewhat interesting, but far too long-winded and unnecessarily moody. It was a disappointment to me.

One that I enjoyed in the 60's was called "None But The Brave". It concerned a small unit of Japanese soldiers on an isolated island, and an equally small unit of American soldiers who arrive there, courtesy of a crash landing in their transport plane. The movie deals with the 2 groups of men on an equal basis, and gives respect to both. They start out trying to kill each other, then manage to work out a temporary ceasefire and mutual cooperation, mainly due to the Japanese commander being a flexible-minded man with a philosophical bent, and his American counterpart being a man of some imagination as well. It had some great moments. Unfortunately, the American Navy arrives eventually, and the peace is broken. The Japanese soldiers decide to satisfy honor and go out "with a bang", which is very likely what they would have done. I don't know how that movie would hold up with passage of time, but I liked it then. It was the first movie I ever saw that treated wartime Japanese as human beings.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 01:37 PM

Here's another vote for "Pearl Harbour" as the WORST! "Platoon" was great, and so was "The Killing Fields".

"Battle of the Bulge" was seriously bad, and quite unlike the real event in a great many ways. The tanks they used did not resemble real German tanks of the time, nor did anything else resemble what actually happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 01:48 PM

Any movie starring Audie Murphy had to be the worst.

And did anyone notice that in Lawrence of Arabia there were no female characters ? I'm suprised that they didn't try to invent a beautiful Arab princess as a love interest.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 02:02 PM

I had (mercifully) forgotten Pearl Harbour, but it is indisputably a heavyweight contender. "Das Boot" is probably the best that I have seen to date. "Stalingrad" scored well by focusing on a few people to tell a larger truth. It is a film about suffering and futility, which in my book, marks it out as one of the better war films.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 02:12 PM

A number of these are things I never even considered watching; "The Green Berets" would probably top that list. I sat numbly thru the first few hours of "The Victors" in a civilian theater on Guam a few centuries ago; then the theater was evacuated due to a phony bomb-threat call, and it never occurred to me to try to see the rest of the damn thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 02:33 PM

There was one called "Battleground", which was terribly boring and tedious. It was purportedly about the Battle of the Bulge, in its later stages, after the German attack had stalled.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 02:50 PM

"Pearl Harbor" is appallingly bad.

I saw "The Victors" on the big screen when it came out (1963). The last war movie I'd seen was "The Longest Day," with its spare-no-expense, heroic optimism. "The Victors" knocked me for a loop.

More than half a lifetime passed before I saw it again on cable. It was still great. After a couple more viewings over a few years, I began to focus more on the unfortunate woodenness of some of the actors, notably (is anybody surprised) George Hamilton. There are also one or two teeth-grittingly embarrassing moments. But there are also some truly brilliant episodes. The "newsreel" technique some may remember from the godawful "Black Sheep Squadron" was ripped from "The Victors"; back in '63, it was new and startling. The hand-held camera used in an early scene also works exceedingly well.

"The Victors" has been panned and re-panned by The Critics, though a very few have recognized its importance. The weaknesses will bother some, but to me they're more than made up for by the overall effect.

If you're optimistic by nature, and demand a "story," this movie may well leave you cold. Otherwise....

I'd say go rent it, but last time I looked it was still not available in any form. Don't know why. Keep watching your cable listings.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 03:42 PM

"Pearl Harbour" was so awful I had practicaly forgotten about it.
I've a quibble. Dr. Strangelove is one of my all time favorites, but I think it really is an anti-war film.
A love interest wouldn't have fit in to the mystic element of Lawrence.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 04:02 PM

Indeed it would not have. T.E.Lawrence is believed to have been gay in any event, which would have made for a really adventurous film at the time. Mind you, there was more than one film maker who would have happily overlooked that dilemma anyway! I go along with Little Hawk's view that the film was not particularly focused on war anyway. It was some film though, as was "Bridge Over The River Kwai". I have always liked those genuinely moral tales. We could have a theme for yet another thread there - moral films...

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Highlandman
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 04:07 PM

"Pearl Harbor" really bit from almost every conceivable point of view, but its worst sin in my book was populating a story set in 1941 with relentlessly 90's characters. Puh-lease! ("Titanic" sucked for the same reason.)
"In Harm's Way" was bad, but the model ship scenes with the slow-motion splashing water were SO bad it made the rest of the movie look almost okay.
"Saving Private Ryan" was pretty much made up out of thin air, but at least it had people bleeding when they got shot and hanging about suffering for a while before they checked out. Never mind that the mission was absolutely completely preposterous. Even "The Dirty Dozen" had a more militarily realistic objective.
"Band of Brothers" is superb. Sure, there are some Hollywood moments, but the great achievement of the project IMO was just getting so many of those vets to TALK. Fabulous.
Guilty pleasure? In spite of the badness of so many of the old classics, I still like to watch 'em. At least they were made close enough to their period that the actors got the sound and look halfway right.
-HM

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 04:17 PM

Actualy, it's by no means certain Lawrence was gay. Can't really get into it here, would take volumes to do so.
One aspect of the film was like the Apostle Paul's, sort of his road to Damascus.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 04:32 PM

T E Lawrence spent time in a Turkish jail which was notorious for gang rapes and homosexual degradation; he had a Turkish "friend" - the boy who was killed in their retreat; there is no record that he had a girlfriend ever.... and he shot the brains out of his own camel when he fired his revolver as the beast bobbed its head up into range.....

The worst film I've suffered was so dreadful I've erased the name of it from my mind... it's the one where the Americans capture the Enigma machine and decode the whole of the German spy network thus saving the world for America. There might have been some English person in the film, but that is as close as it came to authenticity....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Cluin
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 05:18 PM

Anything with Marion Morrison in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: number 6
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 05:19 PM

LH ... in regards to Thin Red Line being moody ... that's one of the significant factors of the movie ... the horrors of war and battle certainly should not be portrayed as 'upbeat'. The cinematography of the movie is outstanding .. paralling the killing of man to man in amongst the beauty of nature, it portrayed the Japanese as human, also caught up in the mad inferno of killing ... the continuing question narrated through the movie 'who are we'. In fact I think I'll watch it again tonite.

Le Saramouche ... Dr. Strangelove is a war movie but it is an anti-war movie .. that's why I like it, that's why it is so damned good.

Lighter ... thanks for the input on the Victors ... as mentioned, I was young but deeply impressed by that movie .. even though George Hamilton was one of the stars .... I've tried tracing it down at various video stores and outlets but it's not to be found. I'll double check the cable movies in the future. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it again.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 05:29 PM

If you're talking good movies, how about Kubrick's early "Paths of Glory" (second favourite of his behind "Dr. Strangelove or HILTSWALTB").

* * * * *

And did anyone notice that in Lawrence of Arabia there were no female characters ? I'm suprised that they didn't try to invent a beautiful Arab princess as a love interest.

Ummm, you may be missing the point....

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: number 6
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 05:42 PM

Paths of Glory ... thanks for posting that ... another excellent war movie.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 05:47 PM

Yes, Liz, I know all that having read whatever lawrenciana I can get my hands on. Nobody has (and probably never will) got to the bottom (pardon the expression) of his homosexuality, indeed personality.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: sapper82
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 06:05 PM

Apparently, T. E. Lawence had an "emotional attachment" with a maid at some house in Norfolk where he was a frequent guest.
How far it went is unknown.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Peter T.
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 06:20 PM

"All Quiet on the Western Front" is the best I have seen. The worst is "The 39th Parallel" (Nazis infiltrate Canada).

There was a really dreadful. but somewhat mesmerizing film of an isolated Norwegian town that starred Errol Flynn (as a Norwegian fisherman!) and Ann Sheridan (as his Norwegian love interest!!!!!!!!!). This was in the early days of the war to highlight the gallant allies. Can't think of the name. Norway was played by cardboard.


yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Lanfranc
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 06:35 PM

I can't think of anything worse than the films cited above in the "worst" category, but would like to add my EUR0.02 to the better war films category. I have always had a soft spot for the likes of "The Dam Busters", "Reach for the Sky" and "Pathway to the Stars", probably because I first saw them at an impressionable age. In later years I have become addicted to "The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp" and "A Matter of Life and Death" - two masterworks (IMHO) of Powell and Pressburger, who also produced "Battle of the River Plate", which was rather more of a documentary.

Alan

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 06:35 PM

personally speaking I've always enjoyed a film called The Blue Dahlia starring William Bedix who is a war veteran with a plate in his head.

Every time Glen Miller comes on the radio he yells out,"I cain't stand the monkey music! I cain't stand the monkey music!"

written by Raymond chandler and from one of his stories, and the americans pronounce it darlia. look out for this surprising feature.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 07:33 PM

I once watched videos of "Porkchop Hill" (Korean War) and "Hamburger Hill" (Vietnam Conflict) back-to-back.

Don't. Especially don't if you're a veteran. You'll just get mad.

In "worst" category, how about "The Boys In Company C" or "Apocalypse Now"? The first is pretty bad and the second not only pretentious but a knock-off of "Heart Of Darkness."

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Cluin
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 07:46 PM

"Dirty Dozen" is a guilty pleasure. I know it's pure cigar-chompin' bullshit (the Allies never employed convicts as elite killer troops, but the Nazis did), but hey, when it's on, ya gotta watch it, just like "The Magnificent Seven".

"Devil's Brigade" was another, though often dismissed as a "Dozen" clone, it actually had a lot of historical basis. That brigade actually existed.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 07:48 PM

Pearl Harbour was truly awfull.

Saving Private Ryan started out OK but went sappy.

Any of John Waynes war movies were pure propaganda.

Das Boot was IMHO the best of its genre.

Zulu was excellent.

Brigde Over the River Kwai was badly done and inaccurate.

Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence was good.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Cluin
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 08:09 PM

The one that ended like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 08:12 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA love that picture Cluin!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 08:15 PM

If you buy the extended DVD of 'The Great Escape', as one of the special features, you get the option of watching it with 'trivia' appearing on the screen. It gives little potted biogs of the actors and the people (or amalgum of people) they were portraying, historical facts about the situations, snippets of info about the making of the film and some wonderful insights into the real story.

It's well worth the money and makes a whole lot more sense of some situations.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Cluin
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 08:17 PM

Well, it started like this, Liz.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: podman
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 08:23 PM

ZULU!

ngadla!!!!

Don't know whether to laugh or cry at Alexander Nevsky by Eisenstein. I come down that it's a pretty good propaganda flick with paper costumes and some good music.

Agree about Pearl Harbor.

Although it was a movie with a message (war is bad) I liked Bridge Over the River Kwai

Some good Japanese war flicks, also with a message. Harp Of Burma. Only saw it once but it involves a Japanese ?soldier? who becomes a Buddhist priest on his way back from the war, seeing piles and piles of bodies.

While we're in the far east, what about: Empire of the Sun

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:25 PM

Zulu was a great war film. It had fantastic battle sequences, and made the British soldiers appropriately heroic without dismissing the courage and grace of their Zulu enemy.
They Died with their Boots On is one of the worst, because of it's ridiculous portrayal of Custer as a brash, fun-loving, well-meaning rake who was the last man standing at the Last Stand, finally dropping after being shot about thirty times. I don't go the whole hog on the racist Indian-hating monster view of Custer, but he should have been depicted as the rather knuckle-headed, careless, self-important, and brave character he really was.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: freightdawg
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:46 PM

Okay, I gotta defend "Kelly's Heroes". Sure it was a bad war movie, but, much like "Hogan's Heroes" had nothing to do with WWII except setting, Kelly's Heroes is a movie about greed and being a misfit and anti-war and some other stuff thrown in too. Donald Sutherland's character (Oddball)is clearly a hippie, which is SO over-the-top and anachronistic for the setting. Oddball happens to be one of my favorite movie characters of all time. For years I thought Sutherland WAS Oddball. The movie could be set in just about any conflict situation, they just happened to have chosen WWII. I don't eat donuts for their health food characteristics, and I don't watch Kelly's Heroes for its historical accuracy. I watch it because of Clint Eastwood and Donald Sutherland and Telly Savalas and Don Rickles and Carol O'connor and a bunch of other really talented actors who could get together and make a movie that is a fun way to kill some time (no pun intended).

As far as worsts go I think they've all pretty much been mentioned. I loved Das Boot, but then I also loved Saving Pvt. Ryan. I think my all time favorite has to be Band of Brothers. Long enough to really develop the characters and show how battle ultimately wears a man down. What was really special was the interview segments that introduced each segment.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:58 PM

Freightdawg I am with your posting 100%. I read Kelly's Heroes the same way you do, as a 'riff'. Where else you gonna find Clint Eastwood with Don Rickles, who had a great line when the Tiger Tank shows up:

"Make a deal!"
"A deal, what kind of deal?"
"A deal deal!"

And this reminds me of another great flip off to the old war flick: "Catch 22" which managed to give Art Garfunkel a job. (beep beep we have a music tie-in!)

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 12:18 AM

How in heck all those gooey British war flicks are escaping, I don't know! Every army officer with a posh upper crust accent. Not one pilot with a north-country brogue. Ow deah!How demnably unfair, old chep...

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: The Walrus
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 02:50 AM

The trouble with "Saving Private Ryan" is that, having made an effort with the first and final battles, everyone (cast, crew, director and scriptwiters) seem to have assumed that the rest would look after itself and it degenerated into yet another 'patrol movie' (and the 'bookend sequences could have been lost with absolutely no ill effect to the film).

"The Victors", I must admit, I can't remember much about this film except that it was "different" from others I'd seen (I must have been about 15 when I saw it, so I couldn't tell how it was 'different') - but there is one thing that I do recall, the "no frills" execution of the deserter (Pvt Slovick(?)), in the snow, - I still can't hear "Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas" without that film coming to mind.

"Pearl Harbor", I must admit, I saw the trailers and though "Oh No, not this one!", the reviews confirmed it - I'll stick to "Tora, Tora, Tora"

"Apocolypse Now" - I'd put this into my personal "worst film" category, simply becuse I've never seen it all. I've tried to watch it three or four times, both at the cinema and on TV/video and I've fallen asleep every time - is it me or the film?

"The Four Feathers" - the latest (2004?) version - the Director's political agenda shows through (not very well acted either IMHO), the pricipals just don't look/feel Victorian.

Best Films:
"Les Croix de Bois" The cast crew and most of the extras were veterans and the film was made over the (then) as yet, un-reconstructed battlefields of Chapaigne
"Paths of Glory" - I never could understand how the film company could claim "Full Metal Jacket" was the best war film ever made when the same director hade made on orders of magnitude better back in the 1960s.
"Zulu" - What is there to say that hasn't been said - Yes it's a propaganda spin on history, but it's still a rattling good story and both sides seem to come out of it well (believe me, it could have been handled a lot worse).
"Das Boot", of course, I'm slightly claustrophobic and parts of that film brought me out in sweats.
"All Quiet on the Western Front" (the Lew Ayres version)
"The Four Feathers" (Alexander Korda version) - OK, A E W Mason's story might not be great, but you must admit, the East Surrey Regiment did well as the 'North Surreys' and in the 1930s they could be bothered to dig up somebody who remembered (or knew) the 1880s drill manual and get the right kit (remember that this was the same period that saw films with George II demanding someone sing "The Black Brunswickers", French monarchs being greeted with "La Marseillaise" forming part of the background music and Roger's Rangers drilling using French mushets and a 19th/20th century American drill book) Authenticity didn't carry much weight (And I STILL want one of those Lee-Metford/Long Lee-Enfield rifles they used in the desert battles).

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 04:40 AM

Boab - it may sound dreadfully cheesy but that is most often the way it panned out, certainly in the first war and the early years of the second.

Officers commissions were bought rather than earned so only those with money could afford to be officers. After a few years, the middle officers (Lieutenants, Captains, Majors) were lost in action and promotions had to be made up through the ranks. If you had enough money you could buy up a Major's commission without even donning a uniform.

In the early years of the British Army, you could only win promotion to Sergeant if you could read and write. Certain acts of extreme bravery got you a promotion, and they were used as 'bribes' to get volunteers to rush a breach in a wall or storm the gates of a fort, but they were never past Sergeant unless the recipient could read. Again, those with the priviledged or monied backgrounds were most likely to rise above Sergeant.

That isn't to say that there were no officers or pilots who came up through the ranks, but if they did, they were under extreme pressure to conform to the 'norm' - the "upper class" accent, the devil-may-care attitude and lifestyle... Ordinary soldiers hated them because it was felt they'd betrayed their roots. Fellow officers hated them because they were seen to be 'above their station' and they very rarely fit in.

If it's the language you have a problem with, remember - foul language such as you hear on any parade ground these days, was just NOT used in the context or frequency it's used now. It was a different era and different rules applied.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: s6k
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 05:31 AM

has anyone seen "To End All Wars" with Keifer Sutherland?

i think that film is amazing, i believe it was a TV Movie but it is available on DVD, quite cheap on Play.com, i will buy it soon

but yeah, its a really good film, many say a rip off of bridge on the river kwai, but i dont think so

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Kaleea
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 07:11 AM

I once saw an old film which glorified custer. It was horrendous. Most of the films made by hollywood in the 40's were propaganda. "This is the Army Mr. Jones" with Ronnie Reagan was such a typical abomination, except for the scene when Irving-OOPS I mean--Oiving Berlin himself sings:

       " I'd like ta moider the bu-----glah! . . . "

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 07:58 AM

"Four Feathers" modern version to me demonstrated the difficulty (near impossibility) of bringing a past mode of thought to light. Didn't see the earlier version and found the Mason epic 'un'possible to read.
My take on war (and certain trans-Atlantic relationships) can be obtained from another 'riff' film: "The Americanization Of Emily" which paired James Garner with Julie Andrews.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 08:52 AM

Good point, Liz. Also the bad language was more likely to be blaspheming, something which most of us wouldn't even notice nowadays.
I heard a wonderful anecdote about Irving Berlin, when he was rehearsing that scene one of the stage hands commented to a friend. "If the guy who wrote the song could hear this, it'd kill him." Or words to the effect.
"They Died With their Boots On" is Custer as he wished he could have been. That said, watch it for Errol Flynn.
Aleksander Nyevski is a brilliant film, forget politics, Eisenstein was, if not THE master, at least in the running.
Best thing about the 1938 Four Feathers is that the river boats and many of the Sudanese extras were actualy veterans of Omdurman.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 08:57 AM

Rapaire, what made you so mad about "Porkchop Hill" and "Hamburger Hill" ? Just curious. I don't think they're close to the "worst."

Among the very best :

Das Boot and Paths of Glory. To End All War.

Saving Private Ryan and The Thin Red Line (1998) have weaknesses (what movie doesn't ?) and aren't thoroughly realistic (what movie is ?), but I think they're a lot more thought-provoking than most. The atmosphere of "TRL" is terrific.

As I said yesterday, "The Victors" is a flawed but essential comment on WWII. (The word that came to mind after I posted is "heavy-handed," but some people do have to be bopped on the head to get the point.) One either appreciates "Apocalypse Now Redux" (the definitive version) as a deliberate satire, or not.

"Twelve O'Clock High" is pretty effective, though some will object that it's about generals rather than enlisted men. "Oh, What a Lovely War" seems utterly insane unless you realize that all the songs and most of the dialogue really are from World War I.

One more "worst" : King of Hearts. Unless you don't count it as a "war" movie. Then it's kind of okay.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 09:10 AM

Oh, the films were okay. It was the dying and killing to take real estate, only to give it up because politicians felt it better to do so -- the same politicians who sent the troops there in the first place.

I've just remembered the absolute worst war flick I ever saw. It was Catch-22 and it completely missed the point of the book and concentrated on Yorssairin's antics instead. The book is magnificent, the movie is...well...somewhat less than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 09:11 AM

The best movie about Custer was a lengthy TV movie made in the 90's called "Son of the Morning Star". It's accurate and excellent. It shows the Indian side (featuring much about Crazy Horse) and the white side (showing Custer's personal life, his family, his courage, his egotism, his recklessness, and his odd penchant for getting into trouble). Custer was a man who took inordinate risks, and that habit finally caught up with him at Little Big Horn.

"They Died With Their Boots On" was ridiculous, all right...but it WAS highly entertaining! ;-) That's Errol Flynn for you. Never a dull moment with old Errol at the helm.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 09:31 AM

Thanks, Rapaire. I think "Hamburger Hill" copped out with its bland elegiac verse at the end, instead of a silent note that the 101st and the ARVNs (who aren't in the movie) left the mountain after a few weeks. It was worthless. The battle wasn't even for real estate. It was strictly for body count, as the army more or less acknowledged.

As for Catch-22, book and movie : you said it!

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 09:55 AM

The Errol Flynn Norway film is called Edge of Darkness -- it opens with a village full of dead people, and the rest of the film is a flashback. It turns out that Errol Flynn was simultaneously undergoing his rape trial, and bedding Ann Sheridan (who was at that time married to George Brent, who caught the two of them at it, and divorced her). This is what I call taking the war to the home front!

I saw Zulu recently and I suddenly remembered why I had thought it was a great film when it first came out -- half naked Zulu women! None of the rest of the film registered for me at the time (1960). The interplay with the drunken preacher and his lissome daughter and all of that stuff is way over the top. It was nice to see the Zulu warriors get some film time, but they are still portrayed as somewhat antlike and dim-witted.   

No one has mentioned Gallipoli or Breaker Morant.

yours,

Peter T.

P.S. I believe Objective: Burma is the film referred to above, and guess what! Errol is in that one too.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 10:08 AM

I think "Boots On" could be run as double billing with "Little Big Man". The only question is which would you show first?

Robo - who once saw "Dr. Strangelove" double billed with the Nixon Checkers Speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 10:46 AM

Gallipoli has been mentioned, but not as a bad film if that's what you mean.

Little Hawk, they showed "Son of the Morning Star" when I was about 8, very good, I especially remember the scene where they cut his hair. Another entertaining Flynn war film is "The Charge of the Light Brigade". Terrible history, but a great romp and the costumes aren't too bad, considering. I was impressed by the Turcomans.

The songs in "Oh, What a Lovely War!" are modern, but using old tunes. Wonderful piece of absurdity.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: RangerSteve
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 11:05 AM

U-571 (I think that's the title) was a highly entertaining movie, although it gave the US credit for finding the Enigma machine, and that troubled me throughout the whole movie. Maybe there was a shortage of available British actors at the time. Whatever the reason was, they screwed up what could have been an excellent movie.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Highlandman
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 11:44 AM

Love or hate "The Great Escape"?
Personally I love it. The fact that the American filmmakers managed to make a British story into a hugely popular American film without trying to make Americans the heroes was quite a trick. By putting Steve McQueen in a role that really had little to do with the main story, they gave all the young American lads (like me) someone to cheer for without departing from Brickhill's history. Besides that, it gave them a way to put a sort-of positive feeling coda on a story that was really quite depressing, without actually changing the historical end of the story... if that makes any sense.
-HM

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 12:04 PM

"Son of the Morning Star" was a good book, a very interesting read. I can't conceive on how a movie could be made from it ... unless it was in a documentary format.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 12:06 PM

BTW ... Guest up above is me.

sIX

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 12:15 PM

Well, go to the video store and rent it (Son of the Morning Star). It is a very well done movie in every respect. While Custer is by no means wholly likeable in the film, he is human...a person with notable strengths and weaknesses. Quite an interesting and flawed character, Custer was. People either detested him or idolized him, in most cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 12:16 PM

It was a mini-series, if memory serves, a sort of portrayal of the last days of Custer.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 12:30 PM

I'll certainly look that up LH .... your certainly correct, Custer was an interesting person.

Le Scaramouche ... you aren't thinking of the TV movie (it may have been a mini series) on the Trial of George Custer ... it was a quasi bio on him, but the main theory behind the movie was that he survived the Little Big Horn and went to trial for his gross misjudgment. Anyway it was rather interesting as far a TV movies go.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 02:24 PM

The worst friggin' war film? Anything with that idiot Ronald Reagan in it! The bastard stole all the thunder from my pal, Bonzo, who totally outacted him in every way! Bonzo should have been elected president, not Reagan. There's no justice in Hollywood.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 02:26 PM

Never heard of that one.
Little Hawk, have you read Flashman and the Redskins? Custer is characterised real well.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 02:30 PM

No, I haven't. I'll check it out. Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Cluin
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 03:17 PM

"Platoon" and "Full Metal Jacket" both just about made me sick.

Doesn't mean they were bad films, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 03:36 PM

Do try and find Alexander Nevasky. The soundtrack alone is rather good, but the film is something special. The propaganda isn't always subtle, ( a chorus of 'Arise ye Russian people, the Germans are coming!), but don't let that put you off. It even has some basis in reality....

The worst that I remember is probably a Rambo (part 1, 2 17, doesn't matter) A total lack of plot and acting ability must count for something.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 04:09 PM

Do try and find Alexander Nevasky. The soundtrack alone is rather good, but the film is something special. The propaganda isn't always subtle, ( a chorus of 'Arise ye Russian people, the Germans are coming!), but don't let that put you off. It even has some basis in reality....

The worst that I remember is probably a Rambo (part 1, 2 17, doesn't matter) A total lack of plot and acting ability must count for something.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 04:24 PM

The battle on the ice (Lake Peipus) alone is worth the price.
Stalin originaly banned it, but then Barbarossa happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 09:50 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:04 AM

Favorite scene from Zulu was the one where the overwhelming Zulu army assembles and begins to strike their shields and chant. The mainly Welsh regiment of redcoats see their doom laid out before them, and begin to sing a Welsh hymn which begins hesitantly, gathers strength, and ends triumphantly. It's a transcendent moment, as touching as the scene in The Man Who Would Be King, when Connery and Caine sing together as the tribesmen hack the bridge supports out from under Sean.
Speaking of Custer, if you were looking for the bloodthirsty, racist, psychotic Long Hair you sure got him in Little Big Man, a serious flaw in what was otherwise a really good film. But hey, it was the sixties.
Apocalypse Now was a great war film, I thought. It was like a joint effort between James Jones and Hunter Thompson, which was exactly what was needed in a film about the blurred lines between good and evil that came to define the soul of Kurtz, and of the Vietnam War.
Speaking of James Jones, two of my favorite war films came from him...Thin Red Line and From Here to Eternity. Mailer's The Naked and the Dead belongs up there too.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:47 AM

Peter, I think you must have missed the start of the thread, because Little Hawk gave "Gallipoli" and honourable mention and I linked to a review of "Objective Burma". If we are drifting into the good films as well, I am a little surprised no one else has mentioned "Stalingrad" - or wasn't that shown outside of this country?
The low budget British films of the fifties and sixties were not so bad on the whole. The real stinkers seem to come about when you have big budget films, with a creative input, which is in inverse proportion to the money spent on it. That is why I think "Pearl Harbour" could well walk away with the prize this time around.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: The Walrus
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 03:26 AM

Liz TS,
"...it may sound dreadfully cheesy but that is most often the way it panned out, certainly in the first war and the early years of the second.

Officers commissions were bought rather than earned so only those with money could afford to be officers. After a few years, the middle officers (Lieutenants, Captains, Majors) were lost in action and promotions had to be made up through the ranks. If you had enough money you could buy up a Major's commission without even donning a uniform..."

I think you will find that you are little out of date with this assertion.
The purcase of commissions was banned under the 1881 "Cardwell" reforms, while the ability to obtain rank without attendance tended to have been dropped sometime about the end of the Napoleonic/Regency perriod.
Certainly there was prejudice in the selection of those for commissions, in the Great War, many of the (original) officers for "New Army" Battalions were chosen on the basis of 'background' and the school attended, partly because so much was run on the "Old Boy" network, and partly because it was beleved that those of the 'proper' background developed a natural ability to lead.
Peace time commissions were not bought, after Cardwell, however, there was a degree of "finantial selection" in that an Officer's pay (especially at the lower end) was insufficient to cover his expenses (tailors' bills, Mess Bills, "extra-Regimental" activities etc.) - more so in the cavalry than line infantry.

Regards

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: The Walrus
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 03:29 AM

Liz TS,
"...it may sound dreadfully cheesy but that is most often the way it panned out, certainly in the first war and the early years of the second.

Officers commissions were bought rather than earned so only those with money could afford to be officers. After a few years, the middle officers (Lieutenants, Captains, Majors) were lost in action and promotions had to be made up through the ranks. If you had enough money you could buy up a Major's commission without even donning a uniform..."

I think you will find that you are little out of date with this assertion.
The purcase of commissions was banned under the 1881 "Cardwell" reforms, while the ability to obtain rank without attendance tended to have been dropped sometime about the end of the Napoleonic/Regency perriod.
Certainly there was prejudice in the selection of those for commissions, in the Great War, many of the (original) officers for "New Army" Battalions were chosen on the basis of 'background' and the school attended, partly because so much was run on the "Old Boy" network, and partly because it was beleved that those of the 'proper' background developed a natural ability to lead.
Peace time commissions were not bought, after Cardwell, however, there was a degree of "finantial selection" in that an Officer's pay (especially at the lower end) was insufficient to cover his expenses (tailors' bills, Mess Bills, "extra-Regimental" activities etc.) - more so in the cavalry than line infantry.

Regards

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 05:48 AM

Okay got it! The one that out-trumps you all....


Escape to Victory, where Rocky and Pele and Bobby Moore beat the Germans at football and then escape from a prisoner of war camp.

the kind of mind that could come up with that.....

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,weelittle drummer
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 05:49 AM

that was me, confident of winning with that one.....

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 06:06 AM

The premise was great the execution of it fell flat.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 08:40 AM

Actually, I think that escape method was used. At Colditz they even made an airplane and (I think) escaped in that, or perhaps the war ended before they could. To my mind, anything Hollywood proposes as an escape method pales in comparison to what was actually done.

In 1963 I saw a British film based on the the Great Escape premise that totally flattened "The Great Escape" (which I saw later). Can't remember what it was, tho....

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,DW at work
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 08:50 AM

The Colditz plane was never used, the prison was liberated before it could be tried out. Some TV company did an experiment a few years ago. They got the old prisoners together, got the plans and built the plane. It would have worked, it flew far enough to get them over the wire and far enough away so they could make a run for it.

Wasnt there one where they used a piece of gym equipment to tunnel out under?

DW at work

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: JJ
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 08:56 AM

Please remember that while "Kelly's Heroes" is set during WWII, it is really about Vietnam.

At the end of "The Green Berets," John Wayne walks down to the coast (with a little boy, I believe) and watches the sun set. It's a lovely moment -- except that Vietnam doesn't have a west coast...

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Amos
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:00 AM

The worst war drama I've seen is "George's Gang", set in modern Washington, D.C. and Faluja.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:38 AM

I remember a fragment of a British war film, it's set in the far east and there's a portion where a Japanese soldier is taken prisoner and one of the Brits figures he can make himself understood to the Asian if he speaks English with an extremely faked up Japanese accent. I don't remember it well enough to know if it was made plain in the movie whether the Brit was dumb enough to think this should work, or employing his own bit of psychological mischief. I found it to be a disturbing insight into how people think, how people communicate, and how people think they communicate.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 09:54 AM

Robomatic, that was "The Long and the Short and the Tall," also known as "Jungle Fighters' in the U.S.

That Stallone POW movie was called "Victory" in the U.S. I heard it was so bad I never bothered to see it.

In fact, the songs in "Oh What a Lovely War" are indeed from WWI and not "modern." The sense of irony and ridiculousness in the ditties of British soldiers was famous.

"Stalingrad" is rentable. Technically it's pretty good, but it has plenty of cliches as well. "Enemy at the Gates" is surprisingly good, and a much more interesting film, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 10:15 AM

"Enemy at the Gates" is a very good film. I found the tragic nature of the German sniper ace quite striking, and Jude Law did a fine job as the Russian sniper ace.

I find it truly hilarious that Vietnam arranged to proved John Wayne with a west coast sunset scene in "The Green Berets"! LOL! When it came to Mr Wayne, ANY bizarre distortion of reality was possible.

I have deliberately never seen that movie, because there is just so much I will put up with. I had strong feelings about that war.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 10:52 AM

Dont tell me someones let me get a '100th' post in !!

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:08 AM

Regardless of the quality of "The Green Berets," let the word go forth from Mudcat that Vietnam DOES have a west coast of well over 150 miles. See any map.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:16 AM

Hmmm. You're right. The map confirms that Vietnam does have a part right down at the bottom, next to Kampuchea (Cambodia) that does provide a west coast of about 150 miles length. So John Wayne could have stood on the coast of Vietnam and seen the sunset. Looks like it's a rather swampy and rural area, but there are some towns there.

He could also theoretically have found a few other spots here and there along the main eastern coast where there is a little bay or peninsula which provides a western view across water...

So allrighty, then!

But I bet the movie stinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:47 AM

No, no, no! Every Vietnam vet I know, every one I've ever met, thinks that "The Green Berets" was the best, most truthful, most realistic, and most important film about Vietnam ever ma...nah, not even I can finish that whopper.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 11:49 AM

You will win that bet, Little Hawk. The film DW is recalling, is "The Wooden Horse". If I remember rightly, the internees used a wooden vaulting horse to temporarily store the earth removed by tunneling. I also have a feeling that it was based on a true story, which I may or may not have read back in the seventies.
WLD has a point about "Escape To Victory". Any film which could feature Mike Summerbee on the side of the angels on a football pitch requires a considerable effort of imagination on the part of the viewer. It was a likeable film for small boys at the time, even if it was perhaps the silliest war film ever. I can't learn to hate it as much as "Pearl Harbour" though. It is a bit like introducing an air attack into Peyton Place and pretending it is about a historical event. The film stinks, because it is a tacky pile of chocolate box sentimentality, which trivialises a horrible human tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: The Walrus
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 03:48 PM

Rapaire,

"...In 1963 I saw a British film based on the the Great Escape premise that totally flattened "The Great Escape" (which I saw later). Can't remember what it was, tho.... "

Could the film have been "The password is Courage"?, Dirk Bogard as one CSM Coward, leading a mass breakout from a POW camp? (Same tunnel-stops-short-of-the-tree-line plot twist).
Do you remember a bit where a saw mill burns down or a train is derailed at some point?

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 03:53 PM

I think that's it, Walrus.

Believe it or not, I saw it at a movie theater at Ft. Riley, Kansas!

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 04:14 PM

The prison camp escape story with a piece of gymnastic equipment in a major supporting role was "The Wooden Horse".

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 04:44 PM

I don't think this category can be complete without some mention of the actor with the chops, image and stature of a John Wayne action figure. Mr Tom Cruise.

How about "The last Samurai"? Need I go on? How about Tom Gun? Based on a Reader's Digest article, a pretty good music video but a truly wretched war movie. The enemy were MiGs without a country for Yeager's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 05:06 PM

The Walrus, I fear you may have your wires crossed about The Password Is Courage.
There is a book of the same title about Sergeant Major Charles Coward. A more inappropriate surname could not have been given to him. He was quite a man.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 05:28 PM

I liked "The Last Samurai". A lot. But that's partly because I love any story whatsoever that is set in Japan and has to do with military stuff. I don't care what it is. I'm a Japanophile, that's all there is to it.

Still, I think it was a pretty cool movie, regardless.

I don't know why so many people want to hate Tom Cruise. He doesn't bother me.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 05:57 PM

I don't have to want to, it comes easy.
However, Cruise is certainly nothing like John Wayne. Russell Crowe is much closer. I hated the O'Brien books and just barely tolerated the film.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: jaze
Date: 20 Aug 05 - 08:36 AM

Heaven Knows, Mr Allison.- a nun and marine trapped together on a Japanese held island.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: s6k
Date: 20 Aug 05 - 09:35 AM

the film i mentioned earlier, To End All Wars, is coincedently on BBC2 in the UK tonight at 10.40pm

i HIGHLY recommend you to see it, its one that many people don't know about, but its a brilliant film, watch it or tape it

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 20 Aug 05 - 10:25 AM

Amazingly, Hollywood actually seesm to have got it right this time. There were actually Americans there in reality as well as in the film.


I'm waiting for the film where the Battle of Britian is won single-handedly by a US figher pilot, complete with romantic conflict with a very public school Englishman...

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 20 Aug 05 - 10:33 AM

Got what right.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 05 - 10:33 AM

They already kind of touched on that in Pearl Harbour, didn't they? And then there was "Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines", all those years ago. Same basic scenario that you describe, only it's not about a war, it's about a race.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 20 Aug 05 - 11:32 AM

And it's entertaining.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Aug 05 - 11:27 AM

I watched 'Paradise Road' last night.... Ye Gods but it was tedious. It was vastly inferior to the BBC series 'Tenko', which was basically the same premise but executed in a far more moving manner. And it wasn't a patch on 'A Town like Alice'..

As I type this, John Wayne is involved in capturing Pegasus Bridge in 'The Longest Day' - a moving moment as I was standing there on that very bridge in June, just a few days after the D-Day celebrations and had the most wonderful hot chocolate in the Cafe there.

It doesn't matter how terrible or inaccurate or downright wrong a war film is, if it reminds us of the sacrifices made by ordinary men and women of all nations and the debt we will always owe them, then it's a good film.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Aug 05 - 04:16 PM

Walrus, That bloody awful film The Password is Courage was shown last week on a British TV Station, an afternoon matinee, if Dirk Bogarde had ever seen this afterwards he would have given up acting, terrible.

Escape to Victory, whoever was responsible for this load of rubbish should have done time, and as for Pearl Habour, can they be serious.

Not quite qualifying for a war film, but on the same theme was, Trial at Nuremburg, with Spencer Tracy, this time I nominate this film as one of the best, acting at its best, a classic, and believe it or not also taking a small part was "Captain Kirk", can`t remember his name, panned regularly on the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Aug 05 - 04:17 PM

Got it William Shatner.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Aug 05 - 04:37 PM

Alanabit, I have read the book The password is courage and the film is an insult to a brave man, according to the credits he was an advisor on some of the scenes, an awful film.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 21 Aug 05 - 05:59 PM

This afternoon, for no good reason, I sat through the last half hour of 'The Longest Day',which dates from 1962, and is (purportedly) about the Normandy landings. It had lots of stars in it including John Wayne, Richard Burton, Sean Connery, Rod Steiger, Kenneth Moore etc., etc. - they were all playing themselves. The only thing that I can say about it is: I'm very, very glad that I didn't have to see the rest of it and thank God that I missed Rod Steiger's bit!

I agree with some previous correspondents about 'Stalingrad' and 'Enemy at the Gates'. The former was tedious and unconvincing and a very long way up its own bottom; the latter was remarkably good for a Hollywood film.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Lighter
Date: 21 Aug 05 - 07:11 PM

Two outstanding movies not yet mentioned: "The Sand Pebbles" and "Black Hawk Down."

For those who may think the Americans in "BHD" are too gung-ho, remember they're Rangers and Delta Force. They live for that stuff.
In terms of a realistic picture of chaotic modern combat, it's unsurpassed. (As usual, though, the book is better.)

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Scoville
Date: 21 Aug 05 - 09:08 PM

I haven't seen many but Gods & Generals had to be right up there. What a load of maudlin, weepy, hyperbolic garbage.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Peace
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 12:19 AM

The worst? "The Patriot".

One of the better? "We Were Soldiers".

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Hopfolk
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 07:30 AM

Hey, Lighter, The thread is for WORST war film... BHD is too good for that imho.

My tuppence goes to "Thin Red Line" - the only film I have ever walked out of. Poetically ruminative GI's gunning down fear-stricken, retreating Japanese soldiers does a disservice to both sides. And sitting on a grenade won't just blow off your arse, mr Nolte!

PS: My fave has to be "Charlie MoPic".

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 07:54 AM

Scoville, a perfect summing up of Gods and Generals, i must look out for your best war time movie.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 08:02 AM

"84 Charlie MoPoc" is excellent.

And "The Patriot" is so bad I repressed the memory.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 08:46 AM

"The Patriot" was one that I avoided seeing, for the same reason that I have avoided seeing "The Green Berets" and "Rocky IV" and "The Passion of Christ". One of the requirements of living a responsible life is to avoid injesting toxic substances.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,weelittle drummer
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 08:54 AM

recently saw Downfall - an everyday tale of life in the Bunker - good film! I thought

i still think feel myself to be leading the field with escape to victory.

however fans of the password is courage will be delighted to learn that it is on a permanent tape loop on TCM movies channel.

you know when jesus said we will inherit eternal life - did he mean something like featuring on TCM, the thought disturbs me occasionally

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 01:46 PM

Gods and Generals had some of the most stilted, pretentious, stultifying dialogue of any film I've ever seen. And I am an easy audience for Civil War movies, having liked Gettysburg despite some of the same flaws. Many war movies have the same weakness...excellent action sequences strung together with incredibly boring narrative or dialogue filler. Troy had some fantastic battle scenes bracketed with totally ridiculous soap-opera interpretations of the myths behind them.
Two other very good films :
Patton. Possibly the best view ever of the dichotomy of glory and horror that battle represents, and a great glimpse of the politics of armies. George C Scott was absolutely hypnotic in the role.
A Bridge Too Far. Courage and sacrifice of the ground soldier contrasted with the egotistical folly of their leaders. Again, great action sequences and Anthony Hopkins in a fine portrayal of the gritty Brit paratroop leader.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: number 6
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 02:15 PM

God and Generals ... one annoying factor of that TV Movie were the phony beards ... they looked ... well, phony.

A Bridge Too Far ... that was pretty good ... as good as you can get to the book.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 03:50 PM

Jeb Stuart's REAL beard looked phony! I mean, it was just incredible, that beard. Only one man in a hundred could grow a beard like that. It was stunning, awe-inspiring, stupefying, unbelievable, overwhelming....large.

To ask a mere actor to actually GROW a beard like that would be asking far more than should be asked of any actor, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: number 6
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 04:03 PM

Oh come on LH .. George Clooney's beard in O Brother, Where Art Thou was more convincing than Jeb's.

stupefying, unbleivalble, awe-inspiring ..... Jeeeeesh!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 05:02 PM

Oh dear! Why did someone have to mention 'Black Hawk Down'? Definitely not a "Worst War Film" but a flawed one, all the same. Neither the film nor the book explain why the American forces got it so dreadfully wrong, in Mogadishu, in 1993. All the emphasis seems to be on how heroic the Rangers were in this pathetic and bloody debacle. They were supposed to be there as peacekeepers but started by massacring several pro-American local leaders and went on to grossly underestimate the ferocity of the rebel militias. The battle in the city, during which the rangers sustained the losses so graphically portrayed in the film, also led to the deaths of hundreds of Somalis. All I could think of, whilst watching the wounded Rangers receiving medical attention, at the end, was, what sort of medical attention did the innocent Somalis, caught up in the crossfire, receive? But then, I suppose the handy term "collateral damage" covers that one off!
After 1993 it seemed, for a while, at least, that 'The World's Greatest Superpower'had learned some sort of lesson - although I suspect that many in Rwanda, Bosnia, Kosovo, and not to mention Somalia itself, rather wished that it had learned some common sense rather than just flunking out. Then came Iraq and the 'collaterally damaged' started stacking up (uncounted!) and the body bags started winging their way home. Of course when oil's at stake there can be no flunking out - whatever the cost!
Still, let's look on the bright side, perhaps some great films will come out of the shambles of Iraq, once it's over. Great or lousy - I'm not sure that I will be watching!

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 06:38 PM

Actualy, BHD wasn't mentioned in the context of 'worst'.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,wld
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 09:08 PM

Could the unpleasantness at Gettysburg have been avoided if they had got together and said, Let's settle this sensibly - we'll have a 'Who has got the silliest beard competition?', have a few drinks, sing one or two songs, bit of line dancing, .........?

But then no Gettysburg address, or perhaps it would have been on different subject....

strange how fashions change ......nowadays people would say, I'm not following that guy...... have you seen his beard?

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 10:58 PM

Guest, Lighter at Work THANKS for the lead on "Jungle Fighters" I'll see if it's borrowable or rentable just for old times' sake.

Tom Cruise is a caution. I've found him talented and eminently watchable in his breakthrough role in "Risky Business". Also real good in "Rain Man" and "Color Of Money". Okay in the somewhat predictable "Top Gun" and humorless and rather overexposed in "War Of The Worlds" although that movie was weakened more by story and plot than Tom.

I had a pet peeve with John Wayne. He just seemed so monotonic, the American version of Jack Hawkins. But he was perfect in one of the great Westerns of all time: "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence". Time does funny things and I rather appreciate Mr. Wayne AND Mr. Hawkins.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 12:34 AM

Hey, come on... ;-) Look for the humour in my posts, man. I wasn't criticizing Jeb's spectacular beard, I was admiring it. He was quite a young man, yet he grew a beard that would have struck fear into the hearts of Old Testament prophets had they seen it! And in the 1860's that was being right in style. Beards were popular. To reproduce a beard as magnificent as Jeb Stuart's is no joke. Maybe that's why it looked fake.

"Could the unpleasantness at Gettysburg have been avoided if they had got together and said, Let's settle this sensibly - we'll have a 'Who has got the silliest beard competition?', have a few drinks, sing one or two songs, bit of line dancing, .........?"

Hmmm. Well, yes, it could have been avoided...thus:

Robert E. Lee could have avoided going into Pennsylvania at all, which would have been wise. Longstreet suggested instead that the Army of Northern Virginia should commit heavy forces to the Western theatre, and block Union moves into Tennessee. That would have been extremely wise. As long as the South fought on its own ground it had several tactical advantages...

- the use of interior lines of supply, movement, and communication

- the assistance of a sympathetic local population

- familiarity with the battleground

- the strong motivation of defending one's own soil against the invader

- the advantage of fighting defensively in a war where the well chosen defensive position was usually the key to inflicting tremendous casualties on an attacker and winning the battle.

All those advantages were thrown away by Lee when he moved north into Pennsylvania, as they had been previously when he moved north into Maryland (and fought to a bloody and desperate draw at Antietam). The results were disastrous for the South. The West was irrevocably lost, and the cream of the Army of Northern Virginia was slaughtered in fruitless attacks on the Union's well positioned defence lines on Cemetery Hill and other dug-in locations at Gettysburg. The Union could survive terrible losses in the field. The Confederacy could not. Lee made the biggest mistakes of his life at Gettysburg. He should have listened to Longstreet.

And I'll tell you who had the silliest facial hair: Ambrose Burnside, that's who! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 12:47 AM

Gotta put in a plug for "The Guns of Navaronne". One of only two movies I've known of that has a hammered dulcimer in it.....   ;-)

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 03:28 PM

Oh come off it Arne, putting a hammered dulcimer in a film is not enough to put it in the list of "Worst War Films". We need something more drastic than that to meet our demanding standards of atrocity!

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 07:25 PM

Les Dawson playing the hammered dulcimer? That do?

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 08:11 PM

So...do ya have to get hammered to play it?

If ya do, I ousghta be a nacheral.

- BDiBR

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 08:46 PM

"Troy" was pretty bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 08:50 PM

"Troy" was odd. It had its moments. It had some serious flaws. I'd give it about a 7.5 out of 10. That's reasonably good.

If a movie was made that really did justice to Homer's tale, it would have to be a 12-hour movie, at least.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 04:35 AM

And prefferably not star Brad 'if I stare hard enough my eyes can meet in the middle' Pitt.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 09:51 AM

Yes, well, Brad's biggest problem is that he is simply TOO recognizable. ;-) This tends to compromise almost any part he plays. I thought, though, that he was perfect for "Seven Years in Tibet".

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 10:59 AM

What was that movie that featured Brad as a Canadian with waist-length, highly shampooed blond hair who managed to keep said hair waist-length and highly shampooed as he battled in the trenches of the Great War ?

Surely that was the "worst war sequence in a nonwar movie."

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 01:22 PM

He also can't act.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 03:15 PM

The movie you refer to, Lighter, was called "Legends of the Fall", and BOY was that one melodramatic movie!!! Holy crap. You had to sit through the whole thing to believe it. It was an experience somewhat akin to passing a large monkey wrench slowly through the intestinal tract...backwards...

But his hair looked great, eh? And could he ever glower and get depressed and morose looking! Just thinking about it makes me want to eat anchovies. Lots of anchovies. In pickle juice. On a slice of dessicated haggis. Mmmmmmm...mmm!

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 04:28 PM

Here is a review of "Legends of the Fall" that I found on the Net. Sounds about right to me...

Legends of the Fall is a sprawling epic about three brothers, their father, and the woman who weaves among all of them. The film is primarily focused with the middle brother, played by Brad Pitt. Pitt is the only redeeming feature of the film; Pitt's talents have gone relatively unnoticed since his debut in Thelma and Louise in 1991, and Legends should give him the notice he deserves.

The rest of the cast is not so lucky. Henry Thomas (the kid from E.T.) still looks like he did ten years ago, Aidan Quinn is out of his league, Julia Ormond spends the majority of the film in tears, and even Anthony Hopkins has a dismal role, half of which he plays as a stroke victim.

While it has some lush cinematography, Legends soon becomes The Movie That Will Not Die, degenerating from stoic period piece to a Three Stooges slapstick movie to a bad soap opera. After about two and a half hours (and some 50 years of family dramatics), it's a relief that all the principals are dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 05:03 PM

Whenever Brad is "the only redeeming feature" of a film, it is, by definition, a "crappy movie."

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 11:04 PM

CAUTION THREADCREEP IN PROCESS
Brad Pitt was really good in Kalifornia playing a serial killer. I also liked him in Fight Club. He's got a limited range, for sure.
Anthony Hopkins was definitely strange in Legends of the Fall. Couldn't he have played it as a speech-impeded stroke victim instead of a completely unintelligible stroke victim?
Pitt- Where's Martha?!
Hopkins- Reahhhhhh mrrrghhhh aaaa hggghhhhhh!!!
Pitt- Oh my God! Is Billy with her?
Hopkins- ROWRRrrrrrr!!! MpppphhhhmmmmAACCCKKK!!
Pitt- Then I'd better take the rifle.

Subject: RE: BS: Worst War Film
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 12:02 AM

I'm tellin' ya, that movie stands ALONE. At first you think, "Hey, this could be pretty good..." Then you begin to wonder. Then the tragedy and melodrama just start to clamp down on your brain like a rusty bear trap...but you can't tear yourself away. What gut-wrenching, insane thing will happen next? Then you begin to realize you've been suckered into wasting over 2 hours of your life on something that is pulling you slowly into an altered state of consciousness that could lead to doing something really weird that would not be beneficial in the least. Then you KNOW you've made a mistake, but you just can't walk away without finding what in the hell is going to happen at the end of the whole mess. And then...KER-SPLAT!!! The final climactic, bloody scene sort of chaotically brings the whole thing to a conclusion that you could spend time thinking about...but do you really want to?

Naw...

Best to just go and clear your head by watching a couple of Trailer Park Boys episodes instead.