Unwanted Accompaniment

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 09:27 AM

Oh, Sttaw Legend!

I haven't seen that for years! Wasn't it part of something bigger?

Robin

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Teacher
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 11:24 AM

I was interested in your agenda, musician. No-one had mentioned teachers until you introduced them as something to blame. Bad mannered teachers, bad mannered pupils, are not defendable. The original poster had only been to the session in question once before. Perhaps he was wrong? Or had he (or the bodhran player) been badly taught?

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Musician
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 02:36 PM

Guest Teacher?

No agenda - and no blame was being directed at "Teachers" for the bad manners, just the suggestion that they could also incorporate sympathetic playing techniques (which you say you do).

I see now you wish to imply that Raggytash could have been wrong - maybe he was at fault playing in the wrong tempo/rhythm for the bodran player and not inviting the bodran player's wife to join in?

There is no excuse for bad manners, in music or anywhere else and the posted example was bad manners.

I also believe there's a big difference between Music sessions, Song sessions and sing arounds with a vast variation in attitude to whether it is a "free for all" or not - if you invite someone to sing a song or play a tune it should be their choice if they want everyone, some or none to join in.

The post was looking for suggestions on resolving the problem I offered a suggestion - don't be so defensive.

I do believe there has been an increase in people coming and playing at sessions that is due to "Teachers" at Festivals and workshops many have such a short time to learn an instrument the easy way out is to buy a bodran, egg, spoons etc.. which they believe (wrongly)not to require any skill to play correctly so they can be a "part of it", which I am certainly not against and many new friends have been met this way, most are a welcomed addition to the sessions, but some have, as those mentioned in this thread, an attitude problem which I for one can do without when I'm out trying to enjoy myself with like minded people.

It is not defendable and if you (general not personal)can help as a "teacher" then I think you should do. Likewise session organisers (when such exist) should also do their best to control such situations and fellow members of the session.

ET

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 04:20 PM

Well - it happens enough for 153 messages to be posted !!!
No one's got THE answer - from being polite, to, the old fashioned "shut the f*ck up will you ".
It exists and that's the end of it - no universal solution - just take all occurrences on an individual basis, as, some are more annoying than others.
Know it's going to happen - without thinking it shouldn't happen.
It's irritating at times ,but don't forget it's sometimes proficient musicians playing along - stealing the thunder of the less talented individual who started the song or tune, which is the unwanted accompaniment - not as most of the thread supposes where duffers spoil good players. A thought........
Cheers

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: denise:^)
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 12:09 PM

I've definitely come across this problem, and I react differently, depending on how bad it is!

I've shaken my head slightly at some, ignored others, nodded at others to encourage them to join in fully (most 'round here join in softly, at first, to see if they're 'welcome').

Still other times, I've pushed bravely onward, wishing afterward that I'd had the nerve to speak up! (The worst was at an open stage, where a guy decided that Sally Rogers' "Lovely Agnes" needed an "oom-pah-pah" backup! While it *is* in 3/4 time, it's not a straight 3/4--there are pauses between vs. & chorus, etc.--places to breathe. These were all neatly obliterated by Mr. Oom-pah-pah--and I finished up gasping for air! That was an early-on experience; nowadays I would find a way to deal with it, and not 'endured to the end.')

From all the replies, I'd say there's not just one way to deal with this problem!

denise :^)

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 05:11 AM

It's thoughtless people like this that spoil sing a rounds for me, they grab hold of a lump of wood and skin and think they're a musician, in my experience most people cannot even hold the beater correctly,never mind play. It creates so much antagonism for people who can actually play a Bodhran and keep time. They should be told in no uncertain terms that their contribution is not welcome

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 07:47 AM

Hmm - some of the problem is in the mind of the performer.

Last time I went to venue X I had unwanted accompaniment from someone. I got REALLY annoyed, slowed down, speeded up, did everything I could to shake him off my tail and finished the song fuming. Needless to say I was too chicken to actually say anything to him - other than glare & bitch behind his back (oops).

This weekend I went to venue X again & the same chap accompanied me loudly and uninvited, but this time I was in a better mood to start with, took time to listen to what he was adding, turned round and played with him rather than against him, and had a fantastic time - the end result of which was much better music. It was a huge lesson to me - and has started a complete turnaround of my opinion.

I think, on reflection, I was being a bit too territorial on the first occasion and felt he was invading my personal musical space. On the second occasion we found a middle ground we could share. I was probably being a stroppy pre-menstrual bitch the first time - poor bloke! I can only hope he didn't notice how mean I was, and that I can be a bit more accepting and generous in future & not be so damned anal! Afterall it was only a pub, and full of people who want a good time rather than meticulously rehearsed performance.

cheers all

Kris
(I might even get to like shaky-eggs one day - but one step at a time, eh? .....)

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 07:56 AM

Was the unwanted accompaniment in time with you, coz the author of this thread maintains that this was their concern not the accompaniment itself

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 07:10 AM

Good point. In time yes - but taking the timing & dynamics away from where I wanted to go. So, not really same situation as Raggytash - but related.

K