Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts

Subject: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 09:28 AM

My wife and I have two separate accounts with Sbcglobal.net (Prodigy), using Netscape 7.2. The OS is XP Pro, but the problem below was the same in 95 and 98.   It also happened when we had earlier versions of Netscape.

Her account uses Yahoo as her home page. Mine uses Mudcat (what else?).

Normally there's no problem getting out of one of our accounts, clicking Netscape, and choosing the other account to run. However, every so often accessing Netscape from the Desktop takes us immediately into one of the two acounts, without giving the choice of accounts to be clicked. This may happen say once a week, or sometimes more frequently. I don't see a difference in frequency of this happening related to one or the other of the two accounts. As far as I have been able to determine, the only way to restore the ability to choose which account to activate is "the big red switch" strategy: Reboot. After reboot, we get the choice, defaulting to the account most recently used.

Since we know what to do to escape lockup, this problem is not huge, but it's "a pain in the patootie" because of the long closeout and reboot time.

Does anyone understand this problem and what to do to avoid locking into one of our two accounts?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 05:32 PM

CTRL-ALT-DELET will bring up your task-manager. On the Processes tab you can look to see if Netscp.exe is still running (or locked up) in the background

You can kill it from there and restart Netscape without having to reboot....

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 06:30 PM

If Netscape is doing something it shouldn't, Clinton's suggestion to use Taskmanager to kill the program is probably the most direct, and simplest.

WinXP makes it reasonably easy to have multiple users on a machine, and you should be able to have the correct web/email account open when one or the other of you logs on as the appropriate user. Creating separate User Accounts can present a few "puzzles," and in some cases it's a sort-of PIA, since you must create an Administrator Account, and the Admin Acct must have a password if you create more than one user.

Individual user accounts can be given several "levels of authority," and in fact can all be made Administrators; but that's not really recommended.

Sometimes you may find that only the user who installed a program, or the Administrator of course, can make changes to program settings or load updates of the program. You may find that automatic updates of some kinds either require you to log on as Admin to get them, or they may download okay but require you to log on as Admin to install certain of them. (This is on the PIA list).

And logging off one user and logging another on is usually a little bit faster than rebooting, but often not by much.

If you're otherwise satisfied with the way you share your computer, try Clinton's "three-fingered-salute" and charge on. If you might want to separate the users via individual accounts, I'd suggest reading all the instructions first...

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: stallion
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 03:57 AM

try "mozilla fire fox" as a browser, it sorted my problems out

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 12:23 PM

Mozilla FireFox and Netscape are very nearly the exact same thing.....

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:21 PM

Evidently my use of the word "account" created some confusion. (Or perhaps the confusion is mine.)   

When I click on the Netscape icon I expect to get (and normally do) a window called Netscape Profile Manager, which will list my profile and my wife's profile. I suppose I should have referred to "profile" instead of "account". Clicking on mine opens Netscape with Mudcat as my home page; clicking on my wife's profile name opens it with Yahoo. For both of them, the ISP is SBC/Prodigy. My problem is that occasionally, for no apparent reason, opening Netscape just skips the profile manager and puts me into one or the other profile mode. Getting out and coming back into Netscape does not change that. The only way I have been able to restore the profile manager choice is to reboot.

I have had such separate profiles (or accounts??) for a number of years, through WIN 95, WIN98, and XP PRO. I have never been required to log in as administrator in order to anything in any of those. If I have had to create an "Administor Account" in the process of setting up any of those, I don't remember it, and have never had to use it. I wouldn't know how to log in as administrator if I were required to do so.

I'll give the "three-finger-salute" approach a try. I have a vague feeling that I have tried that in the past and it didn't work, but I wouldn't take an oath on it. If that is so, I don't remember how the system acted. All I can do (unless otherwise instructed) is to wait for the problem to recur.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:47 PM

People are confusing your Netscape Log in with their Windows Log in....

"My problem is that occasionally, for no apparent reason, opening Netscape just skips the profile manager"

Probably because Netscp.exe is still running in the background.... CTRL-ALT-DELET WILL allow you to get rid of it....

Good luck Dave

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:52 PM

I think you're probably right. I'll just have to wait for it to happen again and try three fingers.

Thanx.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 05:08 PM

Dave O -

I assumed that you were doing what you described. I perhaps wasn't clear in saying that if you wanted to you could set the machine up so that you and your wife could log on as different machine users, and if you did that you could each have your browser automatically log on to the appropriate ISP account when you change the user logon. Since it's rather difficult to revert back to a single-user set up, all the blow-and-puff was by way of warning you to proceed with caution.

Since you're not telling the computer which one of you is using it, you'll have to have the common "Internet Settings" configuration so that you can pick what service you want.

In WinXP, if you go through Start|Settings|Network Connections all you get is "Wizards." You can use Start|Settings|Control Panel, and double-click "Internet Options" to get to where what I suspect are the right settings. This is the same panel you get with "Tools|Internet Options" in IE, but that may be different for other browsers.

On the Internet Options panel, the "Connections" tab should offer you a "Never Dial a Connection" which apparently is what you should have checked. When you start the machine, the machine should wait until you tell it to make a connection.

When the connection is made, an icon should appear in your System Tray at the lower right of the main window. The normal icon looks like two monitors, but if you have "connection hardware" a different icon may be inherited from your network card/box/software.

Once a connection to the internet exists, the computer will try to use that connection for all subsequent network traffic, and it will NOT disconnect just because you close the browser.

If you click (or double-click, depending on your setup) the icon in the System Tray, it should open up a window and allow you to "Disconnect." Once the existing connection is closed, you should have your option, just like at a reboot, to open the new connection that you want.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 08:13 PM

JohnInKansas said:

Dave O -
I perhaps wasn't clear in saying that if you wanted to you could set the machine up so that you and your wife could log on as different machine users, and if you did that you could each have your browser automatically log on to the appropriate ISP account when you change the user logon. Since it's rather difficult to revert back to a single-user set up, all the blow-and-puff was by way of warning you to proceed with caution.

I don't believe I would want to do anything like that, John. Either my wife or I get on the machine from bootup in exactly the same way, "for all users", as they say. Only when Netscape is activated do I get the Netscape Profile Manager, in which she or I would choose our individual net identity. Hers hooks to Yahoo; mine to Mudcat as home page. Hers, in Netscape's inbox, gets her email, and mine gets mine. Hers projects her identity to web sites, and mine does mine. We use the computer in common, from one hour to another interchangeably, and I have no wish nor intention of disturbing that situation.

When you start the machine, the machine should wait until you tell it to make a connection.

We are on DSL. When we boot, the connection facility runs automatically as part of the startup. It does not disconnect when we leave the browser, just as you say. I CAN disconnect through the connection manager icon on the desktop, but seldom if ever have seen a reason to.

When my lockup problem recurs (as it will), I'll try disconnecting and then reconnecting, as my first option. If that doesn't do it, I'll try the three finger salute.   I should expect that one or the other of those actions should clear things up without reboot.

Thanx.
Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 10:05 PM

If your DSL connection (to your ISP) is made automatically, then the connection to your email is an additional "log on" of a sort. It would appear that what you really need is a "log off" at the email provider's site, in order to free you to log on to a different email provider(?).

You might look, on the email service window, for some kind of "log off" or "log out" button.

As a side note, any time you log on, especially at a "secure" web page, closing the browser or the browser window does not necessarily "close the connection." If you leave the site without formally logging off, the connection is still "open," and a malicious person under some conditions (i.e. with an intercepted copy of your "cookie" for the site) may be able to "piggy-back" on the connection to sneak in behind and access your transaction. A good page should time-out in fairly short order, and terminate the connection/authorization; but a lot can be done in a few moments if someone gets in where they shouldn't be.

This doesn't appear to happen often recently, but is a form of thievery not too uncommon in the past. If there's a "log off" button, it's still a good idea to use it, to make sure the connection is terminated, before you leave the site - either by going to a new page or by closing the browser.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 10:41 AM

John:

When I get into Netscape, I may or may not go to email. The Netscape Profile Manager (where the problem shows up, although it may not be caused there) does not specifically have to do with email, although it does set up certain parameters for email, which are identical between my wife's profile and mine. The browser preferences for her on Netscape and mine are identical (as far as I know and intend) except for specifying what the home page is to be--Yahoo for her, Mudcat for me. The browser is set to download all messages to my computer, rather than dealing with messages on the provider's site. We can, but almost never do, work with email offline. We do regularly switch between our two web accesses, with no specific log-off operations other than the Red X in the upper corner of the screen.

I have not been able to find any email log-off facility in Netscape, other than the Red X in the upper corner when in the in-box, which just returns me to (or as I think of it, uncovers) the current web page.

I regularly and frequently see a "leaving secure facility" notice when I do leave, say, a checkout counter, or maybe a website initial registration page, to go to other portions of the site. (Although truthfully I cannot say "always"; I don't know.) When I leave the secure facility of a website by Red-Xing, I also see the "leaving secure facility" after the site's page disappears and before the desktop is restored. Consequently, I don't believe I have the problem you refer to in your last two paragraphs.

I will, however (just for safety's sake) henceforth make a point of using the Log-Off function instead of the Red X, which I sometimes have (I suppose carelessly) used in the past.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 11:17 AM

It doesn't sound to me like John here knows Netscape...

What version of Netscape are you using Dave? My 7.1 does exactly what you're describing from time to time, but it's not a 'security' issue

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 03:21 PM

Clinton -

You're quite correct that I haven't paid much attention to Netscape, and haven't used it for about 10 years when I was on a company network.

Most email accounts, however, do require a "secure login" to verify that you are the one authorized to look at your email. Your "profile" can do the steps required for verifying who you are, so that your email connection opens transparently; but that does not mean that a login hasn't happened. This is not a function of what browser, or email program, you use. It's an SOP for email accounts.

When your login is submitted and approved, your computer is "marked" to show that it belongs to the person who is authorized to access the account that you've logged into. This is usually done with a cookie deposited on your machine. (Not necessarily always in your "cookies" folder). As long as that "identifier" remains on your machine and active, you are that person and no other, at least for the site that verified your identity. To access a different email account on that site, you must "become another person" and the previous login has to be replaced by a new login transaction for you to do that. This is independent of what browser or other email program you use.

Many sites offer an option when you log in to "remember me" which may consist of "remember my username," or "remember my password," or both. If you log in with an inclusive one of these boxes checked, the "verification cookie" that's dropped on your machine is a "persistent cookie" rather than a temporary one. At *your next contact with the site, you normally will be passed directly to the account that's "remembered," without an opportunity to log in as a different user.

* Also at the next visit of anyone who's "captured" your persistent cookie, a rather small but real possibility. Your bank shouldn't even offer to remember your full id, but email accounts frequently do.

This condition usually can be cleared by deleting the cookie, if you can find it. If it's in the usual "cookies" folder, it shouldn't be too hard to find, but some - especially some secure - sites create an encrypted hidden folder for their own stuff. I would expect an email account cookie to be in the normal "cookies" folder.

Usually the "remember me" option is an offer from the site. You can also find some programs that can "offer this service" on your own machine independent of the site's rules and services. I would not expect Netscape to do this, but it could be a Netscape option.

Some sites, including some email services, use the "universal" PassPort logon. The theory is that you can log in with "PassPort" and for the duration of the session any site that uses the system will know that your identity has been confirmed, and normal site login can be bypassed. (Reputable sites may let you see "members only information" but should require a separate site-specific login for access to your personal information.) If your email service happens to use your "PassPort" login as your account access, opening your email will automatically log you into your PassPort account. The PassPort login is quite persistent, since it's intended to be portable from site-to-site. Both MSN and hotmail do this. I don't know how prevalent it is with other services.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 03:51 PM

Clinton:

I use 7.1 or 7.2. I believe it's 7.2. I had the same problem with earlier Netscape versions.

If I understand John correctly, it sort of sounds like occasionally, for whatever reason, Netscape does not clear a temporary cookie (say for me), and when my wife comes along it "remembers" that I'm still on, so it doesn't need to give the Profile Manager a choice.

I gather that you don't know of a solution to this recurrent little problem. I haven't considered it a security issue, but mainly an irksome glitch.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: Netscape 'sticks' on one of two accounts
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 11:25 PM

"mainly an irksome glitch"

That's really all it is....