Folklore: Forty-Four

Subject: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 12:07 AM

There seems to be an awful lot of songs & rhymes that mention
forty-fours.

Maybe that's because the word 'four' rhymes with so many words.
Or maybe there are at least forty four other reasons.

Having nothing better to do :( I checked Mudcat search engine and noticed that there were a number of songs whose lyrics mention forty-four. And the Mudcat search engine cites 115 examples of forty four-in one form or another. I guess this post makes 116 and counting.

I'm sure it's not necessary, but my categorizing jones has kicked in and I thought about how much 'neater' it would be if there was one thread that listed all the songs & rhymes folks could think of that mentioned forty-four. I'm including rhymes 'cause "off the top of my head" I can think of some gory children's rhymes that mention 44.
I bet you can, too.

If you've got a notion, join me in listing titles or adding lyrics to this wide ranging family of forty-four rhymes.

You'll be glad you did...Or maybe not.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 12:11 AM

I'm gonna start this thread off with a rhyme that I just posted on this Mudcat thread: thread.cfm?threadid=98413&messages=17 Origin & Lyr: White House Blues

The rhyme is from Talley's 1922 "Negro Folk Rhymes" {Kennikat Press edition, pps. 71-72}

FORTY FOUR
If de people'll jes gimme
Des a liddle bit o' peace,
I'll tell 'em what happen
To de Chief o' Perlice.
He met a robber
Right at de do!
An' de robber, he shot 'im
Wid a forty-fo!
He shot dat Perliceman.
He shot 'm sho!
What did he shoot 'im wid?
A forty-fo'.

Dey sent fer de Doctah
An' de Doctah he come.
He come in a hurry.
He come in a run.
He come wid his instriments
Right in his han',
To progue an' find
Dat forty-fo', Man!
De Doctah he progued;
He progued 'm sho!
But he jes couldn' find
Dat forty-fo'.

Dey sent fer de Preachah,
An' de preachah he come.
He come in a walk,
An' he come in to talk.
He come wid' 'is Bible,
Right in 'is han',
An' he read from dat chapter,
Forty-fo' Man!
Dat Preachah, he read.
He read, I know.
What Chapter dis he read frum?
'Twus Forty-fo!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 12:14 AM

Well, there's Gene Autry's "Back in the Saddle Again" which contains the line:

Riding the range once more
Totin' my old .44

Then in "Railroad Bill" there are a bunch of different calibers used in this line, but THIS is one:

Thirty Eight Special in a Forty Four frame

Spaw

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 12:34 AM

Anyone here know the song "Who Shot The La La?"

Here's some information about that song:

As sung by raspy-voiced Oliver Morgan, who claims that he actually wrote the song but allowed producer/arranger Eddie Bo to take the credit, "Who Shot The La La" tells a tale based on the real-life death and probable murder of singer Lawrence "Prince La La" Nelson in 1963. Morgan grew up in the same Ninth Ward neighborhood in New Orleans as "La La", whose big brother was Walter "Papoose" Nelson, the legendary guitarist. The lyrics say that "La La" was shot. The singer is not sure who shot him; but, he says, "I know it was a .44", referring to the weapon's caliber. Actually, the younger Nelson died of an alleged drug overdose, which some say was injected in him by another. So, he was shot, but in a different way. Morgan makes sure you don't think he did it, then names the possible suspects and advises what should be done to the guilty party, if caught. The strange thing is, despite the grim subject, the song has the tone of a party record. It's kind of like those Mardi Gras Indian song/chant narratives you can dance to that deal with their sometimes deadly turf fights. Had Morgan grown up more recently, he could have easily been rapping this story".

http://homeofthegroove.blogspot.com/2005/08/hey-fellas.html

-snip-

That's one version. But there's a book called "Who Shot The La La" by Robert P. Robertson that tells another story:

"In the early morning of March 23, 1913, in the legendary red-light district of Storyville, a dancehall shoot-out shook The Big Easy! The La-La, the famous Duke of the District, was killed! Inspecting the case, an inspector realizes it was more than just a dramatic shoot-out ­ it was cold-blooded murder! Can you guess Who Shot The La-La?

Who Shot The La-La? is based upon a true murder-mystery that happened in New Orleans in the early 1900's when Jazz was just a curious form of barrelhouse music and New Orleans was an international, bohemian mecca...

Sample Excerpt
In a time of Victorian values and Jim Crow regulations, New Orleans began a social-experiment on January 29, 1897, authored by an Alderman, Sidney Story, centralizing the city's plague of prostitution to an area of the French Quarters which was called Storyville. It was America's first lawful red-light district replete with its own Mayor, aristocracy, police-force, and a host of colorful characters who became legendary in America's music and folklore. It was a time when the infant Jazz had crawled from the honky-tonks of an all black district called The Battlefield and took its first steps in Storyville before taking its journey to entertain the world. It was in Storyville where the Frenchman, known as The La-La, was killed in a dramatic shoot-out on Easter Sunday morning in March23, 1913, the culmination of a fierce dancehall feud. The bloody massacre of that early morning changed the character of the Storyville District. The incident was cited on July 10, 1917 by the Secretary of the Navy, Josephus Daniels, as one of the best examples to close down the profligate red-light districts to protect United States military officers stationed in New Orleans during WWI from vulgar harlotry, iniquity, venereal disease, and cold-blooded murder. On the early morning of November 13, 1917, the classy bordello of Madam Willie V. Piazza at 317 Basin Street had closed its doors heralding an end to the most legendary, legal, social-experiment the world had ever known..."

http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=1068&12993934-21195aaa

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: 12-stringer
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 02:50 AM

I walked all night long with my .44 in my hand
I walked all night long with my .44 in my hand,
I was lookin' for my baby, found her with another man.

I wore my .44 so long it made my shoulder sore
I wore my .44 so long it made my shoulder sore
And I'm gonna tell everybody I ain't gonna wear my .44 no more.

Baby said she heard that 44 whistle blow
Baby said she heard that 44 whistle blow
And it blowed just like it ain't gonna blow no more.

I got a little old shanty, Lord, Number 44
I got a little old shanty, Lord, Number 44,
I wake up every morning, wolves sitting in my door.

James Wiggins, "44 Blues," Paramount 12860, recorded 12 October 1929, accompanied on piano by Blind Leroy Garnett.

It's a cover of Roosevelt Sykes' song of the same title; I know the piano work and the first verse are essentially identical but I don't have a copy of Sykes' record on hand and don't know whether the subsequent verses are also lifted from his popular hit.

Pinetop and Lindberg recorded "4-11-44" on Victor in 1932. I've never heard this, but one of the old blues recordings in my collection uses the line, "I've got my number, 4-11-44," I believe in a prison context.

Skip James:

You talk about your .44-40, it'll do very well
You talk about your .44-40, it'll do very well,
But my .22-20, it's a burnin' hell.

***

I, I can't take my rest
I, I, I, I can't take my rest
Had my .44 layin' up and down my breast.

"22-20 Blues," Paramount 13021, recorded February 1931, accompanied by his own piano. Story is that the A&R man at Para asked James for "Something like the .44 Blues, only a smaller caliber," and the song was improvised in the studio. The lyrics aren't at all consistent as to what size gun the singer is endorsing!

I suspect one reason for the popularity of the .44 is that it was really easy to rhyme. ("Lula gal, oh Lula gal, open up your door/Before I have to open it with my old .44," in one version of the hillbilly song "I've Been All Around This World.")

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: 12-stringer
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:05 AM

Remembered this as soon as I posted previously:

I have to give you my number, 4-11-44
I'll be there forever, I ain't nowhere else to go,
I have to go to the chain gang,
Back to the murderers' home.
I'd a-been in better shape, mama, if I'd let that reckless woman alone.

Blind Willie McTell, "Murderer's Home Blues," recorded for the Library of Congress, 5 November 1940.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: 12-stringer
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 04:34 AM

Brady had a little .25
Kill a man about a half a mile.
Duncan he had a big .44
Well, he laid old Brady on the barroom floor.
Cause he's been on the job too long.

Wilmer Watts and the Lonely Eagles, "Been on the Job Too Long," Paramount 3210, recorded October 1929. Similar verse in Leadbelly's recording "Duncan and Brady."

John Hardy come tipping down the street one day
With a .44 gun in his hands
Kill me a man at the Shawnee Camp
But they slapped John Hardy down in jail
Slapped old Johnny back in jail.

Says I don't want your fifteen cents
With your quarter in my change
All I want is my .44 gun
Gonna shoot out another man's brains,
Gonna shoot out another man's brains.

Clarence Ashley, "Old John Hardy," Columbia 15654-D, recorded 14 April 1930.

Compare

Asked my captain for my fifteen cents
Throw the time away
All I want is my .44 gun
Go out till Judgement Day.

Dink Roberts, "John Hardy," Folkways CD 40079, "Black Banjo Songsters of North Carolina and Virginia," recorded 21 February 1974.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: bubblyrat
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:38 AM

I seem to remember one that went something like this : -
WENT OUT LAST NIGHT AND WENT INTO TOWN--
I MET LITTLE SADIE AND I SHOT HER DOWN.
I WENT RIGHT HOME AND I WENT TO BED,
THE 44 SMOKE WAS HANGING OVER MY HEAD


Sorry,can"t remember any more.I think the Malcolm Price Trio recorded it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:53 AM

Of course the bloke chasing Railroad Bill had to be different, what with his "thirty-eight special in a forty-five frame".

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 01:48 PM

I got the blues and I cant be satisfied MISSIPPI JOHN HURT.
Ibought mYself a great big forty four.[REPEAT]
Shoot that girl, never come back no more.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:11 PM

Thanks for posting those examples. They make for interesting reading.

**

Check out these lyrics to Howlin Wolf's song "Forty Four Blues " that I found on http://www.harptab.com/lyrics/ly3549.shtml

"Chester Burnett a.k.a. Howlin' Wolf
recording of 19??
from The Chess Box - Disc 2 1952-54 (Chess),

I wore my .44 so long, I've made my shoulder sore
I wore my .44 so long, I done made my shoulder sore
Well, I'm wondrin' everybody, where'd my baby go
Well, I'm so mad this mornin', I don't know where in the world to go
Well, I'm so mad this mornin', I don't know where in the world to go
Well, I'm lookin' for me some money, pawned gun to have some gold"

-snip-

That "I wore my .44 so long, I've made my shoulder sore" line is the same as that 12-stringer posted on 27 Jan 07 - 02:50 AM as being from "James Wiggins, "44 Blues," Paramount 12860, recorded 12 October 1929, accompanied on piano by Blind Leroy Garnett and ...a cover of Roosevelt Sykes' song of the same title."

So I guess Howlin Wolf's song is a cover of Roosevelt Sykes' song too. Is that right? If so, does that mean that you can change some of the words of a "cover"?

Or instead of a 'cover' of that Roosevelt Sykes' song, is it more accurate to say that this "I wore my .44 so long, I've made my shoulder sore" line is a floater?

I'm asking cause I don't know, and want to be correct in how I use this music terminology.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:15 PM

Sorry, from Internet searches it appears that Howlin Wolf song is titled "Forty-Four" and not "Forty Four Blues", but then again I'm not sure. Would someone please post the correct name for that song?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:16 PM

forty-fours

n. pl.
1. So. black-eyed peas.
1911 JAF (Oct.) 382: I looked on [the] table: "forty fo's" was out. 1929 Amer. Mercury (Aug.) 386: If I be camp cook in dugout kitchern, jes' like sling' slop and foty-fogs for shack-rouster in construction camp.
2. beans.
1919 Wilkins Company Fund 45: Company Expressions: Chow. Punk. Slum. Frog Eyes. Fourty fours [sic]. 1958 McCulloch Woods Words 132: Pass the 44's Pass the beans. Loggers graded beans according to size as 22's, 30-30's, 44's etc.

Lighter, J.E., Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang Volume I (A-G) "The Only Historical Dictionary of Slang, Spanning Three Hundred Years of Slang Use In America" New York, 1994, p 802.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: lilly
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:21 PM

Little Sadie, also recorded by Bob Dylan on his 'Self portrait' album

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:27 PM

LOL, Gargoyle! Thanks for a different take on 44s.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Forty-Four
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 04:15 PM

Slogan? Forty four forty or fight?