Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 05:17 AM

That is AMMA's biggest problem, they are not transparent.
Set your fees and services so everything is in black and white is a good start. Just do a google search and you will find lots of information on these spammers.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: skarpi
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 06:34 AM

Hallo all

we have this word in Icelandic " Amma " and it means granny.

ATB Skarpi

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Andrez
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 06:52 AM

Just wondering if Norman hasnt had a sex change operation and has now morphed into Lynda. Their writing styles are so similar.

Anyway, trawling the web as you do when looking up a scAmma I found this little gem about how they are promoting themselves at this site. This is a Canadian musician who I hope hasnt really taken up and "offers" that might have come his way. The link is as follows:

http://www.michaelgeorgeband.com/guestbook

It seems that they like to make comments in the guestbook of an artist trying to "impress" and big note themselves. I mean, look at the rubbish below, it dates from about 2006 I think:
-------------------------
> Hi M & S ,
Thank you for the excellent music and information you forwarded to us.
I'm sorry if it has taken us some time to get back to you but we receive over 100 CD's every week and it takes some time to work through them all!
We listen to them all with a view to where the artist and music might best be placed if it is of suitable quality. Most is not of course!
As we are overseas in Europe, Asia and the USA frequently, office/studio time for listening to new material is also often limited. We have recently just returned from Russia and EEMC 2006 so are back on the trail for great music.
I have today had a good listen to your excellent offering and have this day replied in writing to you with a letter of offer.
You should receive this in the mail in the next 7 to 10 days.
We have affilliations and associations with over 60 international labels and are expanding all the time! Our work spans publishing, licensing, film and radio in many countries.
We also have several number one artist, Grammy award winning artists and gold/platinum award winning artists and writers in our catalogues/roster who we do regular licensing, publishing, sub publishing and publishing administration work for.
So please do give our letter of offer some serious consideration and we look forward to hearing more of you and your music in the coming months.

Kindest Regards,
Norman McCourt. (Director-Australian Music Marketing Abroad) (Director-Australian Radio Services) (Editor-An'R artist, repertoire and international licensing)
---------------------

All this from a company that doesn't even have a registered business name, let alone a website! Give us a break!

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: GUEST,Lojo
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:17 AM

Thanks to everyone for this information.
(Including Norman and Lynda and all their exclamation points.)

For once I decided to do my homework rather than just hitting the reply button. Glad I did! (I beleive that's a legitimate exclamation point.)

In fact, I think I'll sign up with Mudcat to stay involved with and be supportive of this wonderful community of musicians. (I checked - you definitely have a web presence.)

Here's to all of us hard-working musicians - cheers!
Lojo

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Andrez
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:15 AM

Dear anon guest, I'm afraid to say that that particular link makes AMMA look positively kosher but I think I'd be best advised to give both a miss.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 10:39 AM

Probably the only publishers honoured by a Pete Seeger song, If I 'ad an 'AMMA.

and here they are a million years later e-mailing us all

These compilation albums are weird - I was on one once - not done by AMMA, but I ended up on an airplay chart. DJ's were playing my song.

Having said that I never got any PRS money. Usual thing. If radio stations HAD to log every play and pay for them, I imagine it would have paid for itself.

I did send an album to this AMMA company and they asked for money which I just didn't have. so that was that. I think maybe if you use a place on a compilation disc like this - you need to take special advantage - run your own campaign. Its no use just handing money over. You have to have a plan in mind. Its like buying a new guitar or amplifier. Get out of it what you can!

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:34 PM

To paraphrase a point made by our elusive Australian friends:

There are two kinds of Music Businesses:

1) There are those whose work speaks for itself. They work hard and achieve success for the artists they represent. They have have named artists, web presences, phone numbers for their many international contacts and physical offices with their names on the door.
They don't need to approach artists, because artists are beating a pathway to their door.

2) Then there are "Web Music Businesses" who claim to do A&R, licensing, publishing and all kinds of other stuff. They harvest email addresses of independent/ unsigned artists from websites and listings, use lots of exclamation marks in their correspondence, and should you reply to them, will promise the moon on a string (for a small fee). I can't quite figure why anyone like this should need money up front, what with those grammy-winning artists, gold and platinum albums and number one hits. Maybe the royalty cheques take a while to come through.

Norman/ Lynda, if you're still reading this.

It's easy to slag off bloggers and independent musicians.

It's not so easy to name *actual* record labels you're "affililated to"

Or *actual* number one hits you publish.

Or *actual* platinum selling artists you've worked with.

Or *actual* artists who've covered songs you publish

Or *actual" grammy awards your artists have won.

Go on, make our day!

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:11 PM

Oh I do like a challenge, please answer it Norman and/or Lynda

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: GUEST,A very well read independent musician
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 10:25 PM

Need I say more....

Thanks
From
A very well read independent musician

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 02:01 AM

Contact us: http://www.amo.org.au/contact_email.asp?id=13

Sent off today

TO

Name:   AMO Team
Role:        Content Producer

Subject : AMMA

This company, advertised on your website has unfortunately raised some suspicions, as evidenced by concerning anecdotal accounts found on the web.

Anecdotal claims of lack of information regarding registration of business names, demands for large amounts of money, etc. etc. Also some very strange emails, including what appear to be apparent veiled threats demanding removal of any comments about them from Mudcat.org - a US musicians contact and discussion site.

Can you verify that they are legitimate?


~~~~~~~~~
Thank you. Your message has been sent.
Mudcat time: 12 August 1:33 AM EDT

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Andrez
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 04:05 AM

So it seems like the cat got Normans loose tongue? Either that or he just doesn't have the "ticker" to engage in a public discussion about his "individual" approach to commercial practice.

Just so you know folks, I've followed up again re AMMA with the Aust Arts Council who seem to be hosting/sponsoring the AMO website.

My first mail was on July 22nd. They replied on 24/7/08 saying that someone would make contact. On 4/8 I followed up again re the outcome of my email.... i.e. to speak to an actual human being, with still no reply from the Arts Council. Today, the 12th Aug, I followed up with them again by email. If there is no reply through the customer service people at the front end of the Arts Council say by the end of the week, then the process escalates and I'll start to make contact re the issue through management or political channels.

Either way the Australian Arts Council needs to justify their decision (or be held accountable) for giving any internet spAMMA a cloak of respectability. Will pass on any info re contact if or when it happens.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 04:19 AM

"then the process escalates and I'll start to make contact re the issue through management or political channels."

And when Andrez has finished putting a dose of salts thru the Australia Council, then there's still

ACMA - indeed all you spam receivers should immediately contact the spam report page at http://submit.spam.acma.gov.au/acma_submit.cgi anyway.

Several other Govt (Federal &State) agencies.

Various Govt Political people - Ministers, local elected Representatives, etc

The Australian Federal Police - if you really think Fraud is being committed...

BTW, some of these games can also be played by non-Australians.

But why should I alone have all the fun?

:-)

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 04:45 AM

Hmmm,

"Popkomm"??!!

They want 'folk music' at a 'Pop Music' Trade Fair?

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 05:12 AM

"From what I've read, seen and heard they would appear to be a bunch of losers at their place of work with too much time on their hands!"



Dear Norman:

Kiss my ass.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 05:29 AM

As I continue to look at all the related web sites (funny how Max & Joe were told that they don't need one ) that they boast about the related business being conducted all around the world.

Some possibilities come to mind based on my age and experience.

Firstly we here at Mudcat have been intrigued by the 'interesting' operations of "Suncube" :-)

Possibly someone is trying on a web scam over the top of a legitimate business - has happened before.

The people who wrote to Max and Joe seem to me to be indistinguishable from what we Aussies fondly call 'dickheads'. I would not readily give such people any of my money. Reminds me of the turkey years ago who I asked to stop spamming me, who claimed that if I didn't accept his spam from 'his huge business generating web domain', he would block all access to HIS domain 'from all Australia'. Apart from the amusing technicalities of such a claim (many Aussie accesses thru various ISPs at that time came from IP blocks 'not reserved for Australia'!!!) how would stopping Aussie outsiders getting TO him be any sort of 'punishment' to THEM? I'm still scratching my head...

Seems a strange way of generating goodwill to make vague and improbable threats against people who have a genuine interest in what they are supposed to be peddling...

I am led to view
"http://www.creativeinsightuk.com/"
Contact for further information:
Creative Insight
Birmingham Central Library
Chamberlain Square
Birmingham

Where I find
"90% of our services are free within Birmingham"
"Commitment to open access for all to IP knowledge"
"Free clinics with lawyers and other professionals"

So I find claims of money being wanted up front, a little odd...

Just how are AMMA and Birmingham connected?


Oh and "They don't appear to have an Australian Business Number" would mean that The Australian Tax Office would be very interested in them, no doubt... anyone wanna play that game? As far as I know, I think that all genuine 'businesses' are supposed to have one... unless it is a 'backyard' operation, run directly under someone's personal tax stuff. For one thing, if you have any financial dealing with them, you need their ABN when you send them money for YOUR tax return for any 'business deal', and GST is involved, which is why the ABN is essential...


So it looks since there are so many of us worldwide, we are in a good position to check them out pretty much anywhere in the world they pop up to see if they really ARE genuine, since their PR approach to us has been, well apparently hostile, to say the least, from reading the correspondence with Max & Joe... :-)


BTW, I find it hilarious that we Mudcatters are now considered 'bloggers'... :-)

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Rowan
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 06:04 PM

Go, Foolestroupe!!!!! And, indeed, Andrez!!!

we Mudcatters are now considered 'bloggers'

I confess that raised my eyebrow too.

And when I checked the link there was something about Norman's face that rang a rather tiny bell; I have been complimented by several on my memory for faces but I'm still trying to rack my brain for clues.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 07:30 PM

Ta Rowan - but I doubt they will get any legal representation to sue an invalid pensioner with no assets, so while that might have scared away a few, I'm a bit of a dickhead myself when people start to insult me. I don't stress myself out seeking revenge, I just walking after them, wait till they die, dig them up and piss on them.


"They don't appear to have an Australian Business Number"

It's been suggested that they might be using another ABN - funny, I'm not sure that's really legal either. I also wonder whether the local Postmaster might be interested to know that the 2 (known so far) unregistered Business Names using that PO BOX seems to have some problems? The PO Box may just be in someone's private name, but if it is in a Business Name it is supposed to be a legally registered one if my memory serves me well. After all is is a crime to use an Aust Post Box when conducting fraudulent activities! And Aust Post DO have investigators who do appreciate a good tip off... :-) Me? I would never be so naughty as to be a 'dobber', but if others got such ideas... just thinking out loud about possibilities, I am...

The claim about certain information about businesses being 'private' is wrong in Australia, and possibly intended to be just intimidation (in my lengthy experience!) to cover up possible fraudulent activities. No other possible explanation except 'stupidity' and the Courts don't let you off for either 'stupidity' or 'ignorance'!


"No visible plaque about the business at the address they have used to claim they do business at. "

Ah - as far as I know it is a legal necessity to have a visible sign at the address you have registered as the 'office for the business'. Some solicitors and accountants have a number of such plaques for such businesses that use them. A PO Box alone is not a legal 'location' for such an office - it's too bloody small to fit the desks in anyway. There are organisations around that rent you the space for your 'legal office' and let you use office facilities there if you need them.

I seem to remember our new friends boasting that 'someone went to the wrong address' - that would apparently be an admission that the address advertised is deliberately and intentionally incorrect - that would be a legal breach.

Thinking about the 'Chinchilla' link - it IS an Aussie town.

Their behaviour reminds me of a friend who was hired to set up a computer system for a farmer, who then stopped the cheque claiming that he 'didn't like the advice' - even though he used it ..

Also their attacks against anyone they don't like, their arrogance and displayed low level of education and intelligence reminds me of The AGMF - now Easterfest Fundy Xtians (look at the Wiki discussions about the site!) :-)

That beaming face DOES seem familar Rowan... :-) keep the wheels turning!

You do all know that some Aussies are renowned for getting into all sorts of places all around the world without authorisation - is it just me, or do some of their alleged 'artists' in those pictures have that look on their face that says "I don't know who the hell he is or why he is one of the several thousand other people who want to have their photo taken with me"? :-)

Funny, but my searches have not revealed - for someone who has allegedly been in business 'for 30 years' (Maybe that's where you remember him Rowan, from TV - A Current Affair! - but perhaps from his 'other businesses!) a 'brag list' of just how many CDs the 'deals' have been responsible for selling! No Facts, just vague claims! I mean even Seth Riggs (the 'famous' voice coach) has listed (on his website!) every famous 'entertainer' who ever even rang him... :-)

Sadly I can't find any evidence so far to refute the potentially damaging allegation that this 'business' is in any way different from the old "Vanity Book Publishing" racket - you paid a lot of money to have your opus 'published' - they just printed a few copies and sent you them - end of story; end of money. Their public attitude about 'web presence' so far isn't helping either - "Max - How much do you want to take it down?" !!!! :-)

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 08:47 PM

Aaahhhh...

QUOTE
We'd like to paint a very bright picture of the music industry for you
in 2007/8! Despite what all the "prophets of doom" tell you... It's as
busy as ever!! The very same people who are telling you the CD is
dead and all music is now free on the web are also selling you their
software on CD to avoid being bootlegged!!
For 12 years now AMMA has licensed many very successful artists
with CD's through the influential An'R catalogue. So be seen on the real
music radar at POPKOMM in 2007 and do business with the real
world. The An'R catalogue delivers licensing and publishing
opportunities to artists, writers, labels and new music in the
international market place. Send your music and press pack to:

Premium Service delivering Country Music to Radio Announcers
(links to http://www.tamworthragepage.com/media.htm)
UNQUOTE

Once again, a dead end....
"Tamworth Rage Page
Helen is no longer updating this website." (2007)
Embarrassing, isn't it?
:-)


Ok - so who has ever heard of "the influential An'R catalogue" - A google search only revealed easily the info just above (from 'about 7,430 English pages'), if it SO 'influential'...


Hmmmm,...

"POPKOMM in 2007"
Aussies set to steal Berlin's music limelight at Popkomm 2007

Monday August 13, 2007

A record number of Australians acts are set to make inroads in the European music scene at Berlin's Popkomm Festival, one of the world's premier music and entertainment trade events.

With an international tradeshow and festival covering 30 clubs, eight Australian acts will participate this year, including Adelaide's hip hop pioneering trio the Hilltop Hoods.

As a result of their attendance at the Great Escape Festival in London in May, the Hilltop Hoods secured billing at the legendary Glastonbury Music Festival 2008, and were later invited by Popkomm to appear at a special showcase in Berlin featuring the best emerging hip hop talent from around the world.

But that doesn't refer to 'our friends' - it is a press release from
"Matthew Proft, Arts, Culture and Entertainment Export Adviser for Austrade."

Austrade is currently seeking Australian acts and labels to participate in the Popkomm 2007 tradeshow, to be held 19-21 September.

"Austrade has been actively involved in promoting Australian music overseas for many years now and we are now seeing exciting growth, with a real increase in the numbers of artists and labels winning international deals," said Matthew Proft.

Last year Austrade helped 124 music businesses achieve export sales worth more than $28 million.

For more information on Popkomm 2007 visit www.austrade.gov.au/popkomm07. To learn more about export opportunities for music businesses contact Austrade on 13 28 78.

MEDIA CONTACT: David Varga, Senior Media Adviser, Ph: 02 9390 2191 Mobile: [phone], [e-mail]

For further news and information from the Australian Trade Commission (Austrade) visit www.austrade.gov.au/mediacentre.

I wonder if Austrade (a genuine Aussie Federal Govt body) have ever heard of 'our friends'...


"Last year Austrade helped 124 music businesses"
And they don't charge the artists (they spend Aussie taxpayers funds!) - would appear to be much more 'Bang for the buck" - and perhaps more artists too...

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 08:54 PM

Okaaaaay....

The only useful Google result was the previous one.

Wiki had never heard of 'this influential catalogue'...

After using several esoteric search engines, including ones specialised for Business searches,

http://au.search.yahoo.com/search?p=An%27R+catalogue&ei=utf-8&fr=b2ie7

has a couple of artists claiming to be in that catalogue

and AMMA is mentioned...

:-) Well hidden though ...

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 09:10 PM

http://www.knotzmusic.com/eventz.cfm

International Representation Deal - Sept. 17, 2007

Knotz ink deal with Australian Music Marketing Abroad (AMMA) for international representation. Represented by front man Norman McCourt, Knotz will be promoted worldwide for music licensing and publishing opportunities. They will also appear in the September issue (Number 27) of An'R Magazine and on the AMMA's music catalogue CDs for use at international music conferences.

Hmmm - further down...
"Turmic Records Deal - May 19, 2007

Knotz enters into an agreement with Turmic Records for worldwide digital distribution of The Antidote EP. For more information, take a look at the Knotz profile on the Turmic Records site.
"
and further yet...
"Knotz Ink Deal with COMG - March 24, 2007

Knotz sign an artist managment deal with Craig Winstead founder of Cherry Orchard Music Group for artist management. Cherry Orchard Music Group is an artist management and music publishing company based in Pittsburgh, PA."

Webpage - "© 2008 Cherry Orchard Music Group. All rights reserved."

Hmmm - one that got away... :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

icewhole.com: Music - Listen to a track
cached info of http://www.icewhole.com/site/music/music.cfm?musid=661
says
"This song is an epic in itself, starting out smoothly and mystically sounding ... Gloom, You Must Fly & Earthly Things AMMA An'R-catalogue, issue no 27 (AUSTRALIA) ...
www.icewhole.com/site/music/music.cfm?musid=661 - Cached"
but funnily no mention of AMMA or An'R on THE CURRENT DISPLAYED PAGE!

http://www.icewhole.com/eliksir

"ELIKSIR GOING ABROAD

Eliksir was introduced to different foreign record companies and distributors in Cannes and Berlin (Midem & Popkomm) in 2007, who have responded very positively to her material. The Hong Kong record company Silk Road will be releasing Earthly Things in the south-eastern Asian territory in 2008. Eliksir is currently recording a bonus track in Chinese (a traditional Chinese song) for their licensed edition. In the meantime the Hong Kong label has licensed the track Fairytale for a trade sampler and compilation. The music video for the bittersweet Fairytale can be viewed on www.myspace.com/eliksir or www.eliksir.org. The video is made by Harald Sando at Glamfish Productions. Secondly, she is collaborating with Capital Music and Media in Berlin to put together a tour and promotion in Germany this fall as the record will be distributed in Germany and Switzerland. Thirdly the record is being promoted in the Netherlands through IEP, focusing on airplay of two singles from the album. Finally Eliksir is nominated in the category "Best International Artist" by Exposure Music Awards UK for the song "Harbour Song"."

Norman, where are you?

Damn, another! Missed it by THAT MUCH!

:-)

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 09:17 PM

"An'R magazine"

http://au.search.yahoo.com/search?p=An%27R+magazine&ei=utf-8&fr=b2ie7
(about 295 for An'R magazine)
search for yourself

Google - nothing useful visible near the top
"Results - about 161,000"
sod that for a kettle of fish...

Wikipedia have never heard of 'this influential magazine'...

Must admit got I distracted by the list of porno magazines I did stumble over though... :-0

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 10:05 PM

National Library of Australia
http://www.nla.gov.au/

Your search - An'R Catalogue - did not match any resources.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 10:06 PM

Also

Your search - An'R Magazine - did not match any resources.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Rowan
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 01:22 AM

And when I checked the link there was something about Norman's face that rang a rather tiny bell; I have been complimented by several on my memory for faces but I'm still trying to rack my brain for clues.

and
for someone who has allegedly been in business 'for 30 years' (Maybe that's where you remember him Rowan, from TV - A Current Affair! - but perhaps from his 'other businesses!)

I've been in Armidale for about 20 years by now and, while I did a little recording in Tamworth (a bit over an hour's drive south of here), I can't place him either here or in Tamworth. Before that, although I was rather well known around much of SE Oz I actually lived in Melbourne, where I was rather active in the music scene, even teaching recording/mixing and band techniques and radio production to high school students (two half hour shows per week on 3CR); perhaps I bumped into him around Melbourne.

I'll keep thinking. Me a blogger?????? Ho hum.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Andrez
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 06:02 AM

Wow, go Foolestroupe go!

Well anyway today the Arts Council called. They said that the guy who first responded to my query had left hence no follow up re emails. I gave the caller the short story about a company with dodgy business credentials using the AMO online site to promote themselves and their alleged "services".

I referred them to this thread to check out what has been learnt about that company, feedback by people approached by that company and of course the correspondence with Mudcat Central.

Hopefully they will check it out but basically I was told that they would have no issues about removing the references to our spAMMA friends organisation and would happily follow that up. That sounded good to me!

I also asked how long it would take and thats the tricky part. Since the website is defunct i.e. up but no longer being maintained due to lack of funding etc, etc, they have to contact someone who can access the site and also has the necessary permissions to make the required deletions. It may take a day or so or perhaps a week to action.

If no change by late next week I'll follow up yet again re progress or other problems.

Cheers,

Andrez

PS: Purely out of curiousity of course, where would one go on the Web if you did want to report any concerns about abuse of the Aussie Postal service?

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 07:18 AM

You could always start here, if you could not visit the actual Post Office hosting a particular PO Box, I suppose... but that's just a quick guess :-)

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: GUEST,sam
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 07:27 PM

Gosh,

i got this following email yesterday "Hello Sam,
Thank you for the excellent music and information you forwarded to us.
I'm sorry if it has taken us some time to get back to you but we receive in excess of 100 CD's and demos each week.
We are also overseas in Europe, Asia, South America and the USA frequently.
So office/studio time for auditioning new material only occurs 3 times a year.
I have today had a good listen to your excellent offering and have replied in writing to you with a letter of offer.
You should receive this in the mail in the next 7 to 10 days.
We have affilliations and associations with over 60 international labels and are expanding all the time!
Our work spans publishing, licensing, film and radio in many countries.
Recently AMMA was appointed international representative to the very prestigious Fmi Music Market Brazilia, Brazil.
AMMA also picked up AustralAsian agency for the giant UK labels Revolver Records & Heavy Metal Records.
We also have several number one artist, Grammy award winning artists and gold/platinum award winning artists and writers in our catalogues/roster.
Do give our letter of offer some serious consideration as we look forward to hearing more of you and your music in 2008/9.

Kindest Regards,
Norman McCourt. (Director- AMMA) (Editor- An'R artist, repertoire and international licensing)"

Now.......... having read much of the feedback above, i am very suspeciously nervous and don't know what's going on. I suspect that this AMMA company is a complete hoax. Is this a fact?
Does anybody really know? [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Rowan
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 10:00 PM

Caveat emptor!

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 10:34 PM

"Imogen Smythe"

Been web searching for that name - Haha! :-)

Wonder if it may be a fake name - unless someone has this same name as others far more famous

http://www.amazon.com/phrase/Imogen-Smythe/ref=cap_kpl_pdp_7
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Imogen+Smythe+&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 10:49 PM

"AMMA also picked up AustralAsian agency for the giant UK labels Revolver Records & Heavy Metal Records"

http://revolverrecords.com/
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=33226637

For Demo & Publishing submissions... You can now submit your demos and EPKs online! Check out the Submit Demo page on our web site: http://revolverrecords.com/submitdemo.php.

Alternatively, you can still send them the old-fashioned way, to
A&R Department
Revolver Records
152 Goldthorn Hill
Penn
Wolverhampton
WV2 3JA
United Kingdom

The main team consists of

Paul Birch (Managing Director)
Olivia Birch (Director)
Nick Dunn (Label Manager)
Anthony Herron (Label Manager)
Christopher Woods (Future New Media, IT)
Ciarán Jordan (Digital Sales and Repertoire)

???
Cds Vinyl DVDs at Revolver Records
Revolver Records in Phoenix, AZ 4214 N 7th Ave 85013 602-795-4980 CDs, Vinyl, DVDs, Turntables.
www.revolveraz.com/
???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.heavymetalrecords.co.uk/

©2004 Heavy Metal Records. All Rights Reserved.
Telephone: [phone] || Information/problems/help: [e-mail]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Somebody in UK should have the contacts necessary to verify this.

Thanks Guys.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: cobber
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 11:24 PM

I don't get on the Mudcat often these days so I'm sorry I missed this thread when it first appeared and descended to the angry level it did. Yes, I know Norman. He was a member of Cobbers for about ten years, first as a sound and recording engineer and then as our bass player. He started AMMA when the band finished. In fact, it was Norman who introduced me to the Mudcat about ten years ago. I have always known Norman to be hard working and completely honest in his dealings. He may be a fairly hard-headed businessman but his efforts as a studio owner and engineer have helped many bands get a recording out from way back in the days when it seemed a lot harder than now with ther proliferation of "home" studios, cd burners etc. Norman has always promoted independent music in the way mentioned in earlier posts. He takes cds to the big record fairs and puts in the effort to sell them to overseas companies. I am not saying that you should all rush out and sign up with AMMA. Everyone has to research what's best for them. I guess I'm saying that it's disappointing that this thread has been so vitriolic.
John Armstrong (cobber)
[e-mail]
ex Cobbers Bush Band, Melbourne, Australia

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:06 AM

He may be all that to you, Joan, but he did a bad job making any sales here with this remark:

"From what I've read, seen and heard they would appear to be a bunch of losers at their place of work with too much time on their hands!"


From my POV anyway. I have posted once to this thread (now twice). I won't be posting to it again unless it's to read an apology from him.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:51 AM

Dear John,

Thanks for your personal input. But things seem to now have gone beyond the point of no return, with their own momentum as verifiable facts come to light.

"He may be a fairly hard-headed businessman"

But if I can't distinguish him from the many other "hard-headed businessmen" I have also known, who I have not been able to distinguish from "ignorant dickheads", I don't know how others will think.

As he seems to NOT WANT Web exposure, perhaps the world is leaving him behind, and irrelevant now?

If he can't keep the Business Names he trades under in Australia Legally Registered, and does not appear to have any ABN, then forgive us if we mistake him for an incompetent con artist.

How do we know if he is honest, paying correct taxes (about $250 of that $2700 would be GST), and not ripping people off?

Also, since he and his alleged cronies stormed in here and

1) attacked and insulted us
2) told us 'porkies' about certain legal matters, including so called 'privacy' of the details of his (legal?) 'business'
3) made possible veiled threats about what will happen to any personal information that users and owners of this site disclose
4) apparently offered a bribe to Max to remove any mention of his activities here, and boasted that he had bullied others elsewhere into doing so

I don't think that he can EVER have much credibility here. Apologies, however may satisfy SOME...

However...

He seems to REFUSE to wish to provide any FACTS (just vague unverifiable boasts of the sort that con artists also do!) about WHO he has helped, how much and how many, etc.

He also seems to have failed to have lodged any copies of his alleged 'publications' with The NLA, which would have provided him with lots of 'cred' - VERY strange for one who allegedly 'does everything the old fashioned way before the web'.

Now with about 100 CDs received each week, if ONLY 2 paid $2700 each, that's about $270,000 a year, which would appear to be a decent enough 'non-taxable' income, even with the necessary 'expenditures', nudge, nudge, wink wink, say no more...

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:54 AM

After my life experiences, I don't tolerate Bullies any more, I work very hard at destroying them.

Also, I don't give up easily...

"I wait for them to die, then dig them up and piss on them"

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: cobber
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 02:34 AM

I have to say that I didn't like much that I read in this thread and I don't think Norm handled things well at all. I can only comment on the person I've known for a long time and I added my view because nobody else seemed to have heard of him. I don't think he made too many friends here.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 06:10 AM

So, to take any of this seriously I checked out the people who are saying they have had problems to see if they were at all credible.

This is what I found... (not hard to find as it is his link)

http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~rhayes/index.htm

Apparently, this guy is a "Wordsmith and Computer Systems Person".

Well, there seems to be a bit of false advertising going on here too don't you think?. All you really need to do is check out his site to see that he is living in a fantasy world (and could also be slightly retarded!) Talk about clogging up the internet with meaningless B/S!

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 06:35 AM

Oh, and Sandra form Sydney, your not much better. Maybe you should tear yourself away from your computer and see a hairdresser!

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 07:30 AM

Well, the more I find out about the posters on this thread the more inclined I am to think why the hell should he respond to this garbage. Taking sneaky photo's outside the building, pretty pathetic really. When he did respond someone piped up and said "boo hoo stop being so mean", well have a look at yourselves and what you have been saying. Pot calling the kettle black don't you think?

Who are you people to comment anyway? I haven't recognized 1 of you as an "Is" a "Will be" or a "has been". Leaning more towards the "NEVER WAS & NEVER WILL BE".

1 person said something sensible and I took that advice onboard about using this type of promotion as a tool in the bigger plan. So thank you to that person for that advice, which was what I was thinking anyway. And, I wish them the best of luck.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 07:43 AM

What's wrong Andrez? Scared?

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 07:52 AM

Thought so!

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Andrez
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:04 AM

Thanks for your input John, at least we have some sense of where Norman fitted into the scheme of things.

As you say Norman hasnt handled things very well. If you are in contact with him perhaps you could prevail on him to respond to some of the issues raised above. People dont like feeling that they are being conned and that is exactly how Norman and his "partners" present.

The incoherant rants and raves sent to Max did nothing to further Normans credibility at all! It also opens him up to a fair degree of piss taking! Something that Mudcatters are very good at if anyone hasnt noticed already?

Something simple rational and lucid would go a long way to addressing and clarifying some of the issues issues raised in this thread.

If he is unwilling to take the opportunity to respond for whatever reasons then he is setting himself up for the kind of caning he has received to date and despite your reference on his behalf there is nothing to suggest that there is something to be gained for any artist through any business relationship with AMMA.

> Otto, you PM'd me to ask for the photos I took of the alleged AMMA offices. Ordinarily I'd have no problem doing that but having seen the abusive tone of your last posts I'm not that convinced that your contributions are all that constructive in the context of getting to the bottom of what AMMA and Uncle Norman are all about so I think I'll pass on that for the moment.

If you are Melbourne based you can easily go there yourself or get someone to go round for you.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:09 AM

Scared, just as I thought.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:20 AM

From the garbage you people are talking (not all of you, but the obvious ones) I bet these "Alleged photos" don't even exist. Sounds like you have gone shy. So really, if they exist, send them. Just so I know where to go next week!

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:27 AM

Hey Otto, does the phrase 'last nail in the coffin' have any meaning for you?

I never heard of this company before and I probably never would have. Thankfully, now the world can do a Google search and see what sort of stuff Norman and his proxy (if Otto really is a proxy) write and steer clear.

Thank you for letting the world see how unprofessional you are. No need for negative comments from others when you volunteer your own.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:29 AM

So, tell me Andrez...

Have you actually used AMMA's services?

Same question to you FOOLstoop (or whatever) and Sandra bad hair of Sydney?

I am thinking that the answer will be a big fat NO!

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:32 AM

Jeri,

Go back to bed. Whatever.

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:52 AM

My bad. Google doesn't seem to know you exist. I hope that doesn't mean you really are a scammer. You'd think Google would at least find people you represent.

I hope you're not getting paid for public relations, Otto. This whole thing is coming off like an Oz music twist on a Nigerian scam.

So, tell me Andrez...

Have you actually used AMMA's services?

Same question to you FOOLstoop (or whatever) and Sandra bad hair of Sydney?

I am thinking that the answer will be a big fat NO!

I don't think they feel like they're missing anything. Why would anyone want to do business with the sort of people who've written the sort of things that appear in this thread. If it's not a scam, your defensiveness probably makes people think it might be.

Thanks to you, now many people will avoid you. Keep talkin'. Here's some more rope...

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:58 AM

Oh my god... YOU IDIOT! LMAO

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Otto
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:10 AM

Did the hair comment hit a raw nerve with you too? I can see why! Look, don't worry it is nothing a good stylist can't fix, that is if you can afford it! (Hope you have deep pockets)
I'm bored now, so Andrez if you ever find the nerve to put your money where your mouth is you know where you can reach me.

Oh, I almost forgot; just as I thought.... No!

Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:16 AM

100!


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