I Built a guitar

Subject: I Built a guitar
From: Neighmond
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:17 PM

In High school shop class, but didn't put any frets on it. The box is round like a banjo (easier to make) and the neck is quite long and has "f" Holes, although flat on top.
I didn't know how to scale it then, and don't know now, I was hoping someone here could tell me how to measure it, especially after that recent post telling how to scale a banjo. Wished I'd asked Sooner.
The bridge is in there with it(Store bought,not made), but not attached to anything as The teacher told me to wait untill I knew how to map the scale as it would ruin the finish if I had to move it later on. Thusly I could put the bridge anyplace on the box it has to be.
There is a nut on it made of wood that I havn't notched as I was unsure to make a four or six stringed instrument when I began. Sad fact is, I only did it because a girl I was chasing at the time liked guitars, but now I want to get it to play just for a lark.
I have a set of tuning machines (not the highest priced-I bought six of them through the school when I made it) and the headpiece is undrilled because I wasn't sure to make a 4 or six-string.
The thing is laqqured(sp?) because Mr McKinly told me that was how they finished them so I would sooner not strip it.
I sure do appreciate any help people have to give.

FWIW, I got a B on it as a project, and Mr. McKinly put it in the display case in the corridor my senior year.

Chaz

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:21 PM

Go to the Longneck Banjo thread for figuring the scale and fret locations. They should work fine. Or the formulae given there should help.   Compare it to a guitar or banjo for rough bridge and nut locations. Or better still go to a guitar repair person and pay him or her or them to help you determine these locations.

Good luck

Don

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Neighmond
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:33 PM

I would do that but the neck is loooonger than a regular guitar. If I had the mathematical number (or if 17.817 works on a 6 string too) I will use that. Thanks tor the quick answer!

Chaz

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:36 PM

I Built a guitar

Very good, I built a boat

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Neighmond
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:39 PM

I'm not saying It'll put martin out of business-it was a project in school.

How big a boat?

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:41 PM

Well, if you did, welll done. The world needs a lot more people building boats and guitars. Keep 'em out of nasty mischeif.

A

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Neighmond
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:44 PM

Kept ME out of trouble.

Didn't take that ling to actually assemble but it took forever to sand, sand, sand and finish. lots of coats. Par the Teacher's instructions. Finish was 50% ofthe final score.

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:59 PM

I've built boats and guitars. Boats for a living and guitars for fun.
Believe Neighmond, nothing insignificant about building a guitar.

That formula will work on 6 string guitars too.

Have at it.

Don

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Bert
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 09:01 PM

Measure the distance from the nut to the bridge and divide it by 2.
That is the point of your octave fret.
multiply that distance by the twelfth root of 2 (1.0594630945929)
and that is the distance from the bridge to the next fret.

Do the same with the distance from that fret and keep going until you reach the nut.

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Neighmond
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 09:06 PM

Thanks a pile!!!

Now it's off to measure, measure and cut (Lordy lord! I done cut this thing three times and it's STILL too short!)
is the distance to the center of the nut or the edge closest to the bridge? And likewise the center of the bridge or the edge closest the nut? Or does it make difference?

Chaz

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 09:30 PM

By the way, will this be a steel string guitar? Because it will have to have a compensated bridge saddle on it to intonate properly when a note is fretted... IOW is the bass side of the saddle slanted away from the nut about 1/8 " or so out of parallel (to the nut) The thicker bass strings need more length because they are less "resistant" to tension before going sharp, as you will know from having tuned the guitar--it takes less of a turn on the bass strings to raise the pitch by a half step, than on the high strings.

But whether it is a steel string or classical (nylon string), it will still have to have some compensation allowed for in the bridge placement. And this is very picky and tricky. As mentioned above, if you want a certain scale length, (say 25 inches) halve that (12.5 inches) and that is the placement of the 12th fret. Then you can layout the reast of the frets from there, but the distance from the twelfth fret to the bridge saddle should have a little more added to it for more compensation. Luthier William Cumpiano suggests .15 inch for steel string guitars and .1 inch for classicals. That's if you want the thing to be able to play in tune at all.

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Neighmond
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 09:35 PM

Yipes...Glad I asked before cutting into this thing.
The Bridge I have is a rosewood 12.99 special from Grady music in Waterloo, it has a slant to it but no notches- Merlin (the proprieter) told me to notche it when I strung it because nylon strings are thicker than steel. Thanks for the technical advice, It's better than I could have hoped for!

Chaz

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 09:38 PM

A classical bridge saddle doesn't need to be slanted away at the bass side like a steel string. Nylon strings aren't as finicky that way. It's usually (always?) parallel to the nut. But the overall compensation factor of .1 inch still applies.

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Neighmond
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 09:44 PM

Do you think With a Box (body?) of 16" in diameter nylon strings resonate oe will this thing have more a banjo sound or is just too hard to tell?

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:19 PM

Depends on a lot of things... the wood used (solid top or laminate?) the bracing (size, position) where and how the brige and strings are attached, the vibrational transmission properties of your neck/body joint, lots of others...

You're gonna have to finish it up and see, Neighmond. Sounds like a worthy experiment, though. Let us know.

One thing I do know... a solid top will improve in sound over the years as it's played whereas the laminated top won't.

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Bert
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:47 PM

Of course you could be a REAL folky and make your frets out of gut and tie them on. Then at a later date, when you are satisfied with their positions you can fit permanent frets.

Subject: RE: I Built a guitar
From: Neighmond
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 08:18 PM

I think I'll do the gut fret thing....maybe when I am happy with the placement file pilot notches on the edge of the neck and make them of gut and replace them as they wear out. Never thought of that!

The soundboard (top where the bridge rests on) is thin spruce and I cheaped out and made the internal braces out of lath that came from my granddad's house. I think the lath is ash(they made it from trees cut on site when they built the house) and the body is vaneered because bending it made the wood I built it from look like hell, the vaneer is mahogany and it looks pretty against the light top.

Again, thank you all for the helpful answers!

Chaz