Getting on the bottom rung

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 10:09 AM

Big Al going for maximum kudos in the credibility stakes there I see...

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 10:41 AM

Don't think so - Tufty died not long after. Don't think it was my studio that killed him off - but you never know. When I say a meal - my culinary skills are somewhat limited. It almost certainly was just baked spuds, baked beans and cheese.

Very sad - looking back. the album was called You'll Never Die for Love. And it was some tunes that the local forces of repression had for their pipe band round about 1810. Tufty had discovered a cache of this stuff in old piano stool - or something like that. When I say local - Ithink the tunes were from Ripley, Codnor - someplace like that.

They guys worked like mad at the project. I suppose its the sort of thing you hope will write your name in the halls of fame. They were all terrific guys. The recording engineer was called John Gil - not to be confused with the bloke from Please Yourself Skiffle band.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 11:38 AM

Well I'm impressed.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 11:55 AM

Ah you should hear my Johnny Cash tribute that I'll be singing at the Portsmouth Hoy in Poole tonite. My Ring of Fire is a sensation.

I've been thinking of adding the theme from Rawhide.

Obviously the audience sings 'Get 'em up!' after I sing Move 'em on! After then, Ithink its the orders to run mad as one of the war poets put it.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 12:04 PM

Sad to think, that militia were probably the guys that did for the Pentrich rioters.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 08:41 PM

Folk festivals are the most likely place to come into contact with large numbers of club organisers.

My first gig arrived when one of them sat in on the Bedford Hotel session at Sidmouth many years ago. He booked me for a folk club twenty miles from my home in Kent.

Years later the same session produced a triple venue booking in Stafford as part of the S.M.A.R.T. 2002 One Day Festival.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 06:57 AM

I'm pretty sure I know who you are, Mr Complete Unknown.

How many folk clubs have you actually ASKED for a gig? They don't come to you. You have to go to them.

Start by compiling one CD of your TEN best songs. Be ruthless in whittling these down. You want the ones that showcase you at your most impressive. Don't necessarily pick them yourself. Ask a friend or family member, or someone whose taste in music you respect. But someone who is critical and hard to please.

Make that CD look like a handsome package. A strong, eye-catching cover. Think about good design.

Get an interesting photo of yourself to go with it. Doesn't matter if you're not young and pretty; you just want an interesting photo that shows something of who you are.

Film some youTube clips. Don't put them up unless you're sure they show your singing in a good light.

Send out your press packs and your album to promoters and festivals. Start locally (but a bit further afield than the clubs you "always" sing at: they will just think of you as a local floor singer)

You might even consider getting your "ten best songs" album professionally mixed and mastered. It's really not that expensive these days. PM me if you want some suggestions.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 07:22 AM

Here's an example of how persistence, luck and a bit of je-ne-sais-quoi can get you gigging. It may not work in the folk world, but it works elsewhere.

Four years ago, I decided to run an acoustic session in my local pub - second Sunday of the month - a mixed, eclectic session with anybody and everybody welcome, and anything musically that people fancied. So I put a notice to that effect on the inside of the pub's front door. The first few sessions were very sparsely attended, as you might expect and, some evenings, there were just two or three of us. But we persisted. One evening, Di, who lives a couple of miles away turned up with her guitar, and with Chris, her guitarist partner - who turned out to be a damned good guitarist. I liked his style and he liked mine. Slowly the session grew to its present level of about 10 participants - more than enough for the small public bar we play in.

At Christmas two years ago, the landlady asked if I could organise some rock'n roll in the pub for the village's late night shopping evening. I said I could and got together with Di and Chris to do a couple of early evening hours as part of the night's fun. A great success - why, we even got paid! And we repeated the evening last Christmas. Various people heard us play and Chris and I were asked to do various functions - a local birthday party, a community centre bash in Brighton, and recently an evening of electric jazz for the civil partnership post-ceremony bash of some neighbours. The jazz went down OK, and the landlady has asked us to play one Sunday lunchtime a month. We've also done a local Gardens & Arts weekend, and we're booked to play at a mini-beer festival at a pub up the road. And we have a couple of charity freebies lined up.

So many people asked us for a card - which we didn't have - that we had to jot down telephone numbers on scraps of paper! So I got some cards printed and decided that, if we were going to do it more regularly, a website and a sample batch of audio files would be a good idea. So, I picked a domain, set up a website, and made some recordings to put on Soundcloud (to be embedded in the website).

So, here we are - making music, getting a few gigs, trousering some cash to pay for beer, petrol and strings - and (very importantly) having fun! None of it would have happened without the urge to do it - whatever it is...

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 07:52 AM

the majority of gigs I've played have come about as a result of people hearing me at an open mic and offering me a gig. I got offered a gig through some busking at the South Bank recently too. And a gig might lead to a different gig: a fellow performer might put on a different night that they'll invite me to play at.

You do hit a brick wall though if you don't have recordings to show for yourself. I'm occasionally asked if I have an EP or album, or even a business card. (Just occasionally, minf, not often enough for me to harbour any illusions about my popularity.) I always feel a bit ridiculous saying I don't; I get the impression I'm probably the only musician in the world who doesn't in 2012.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 10:49 AM

I admire you for that, Matt.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Vic Smith
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 11:15 AM

I would think that the vast majority of our barn dance band gigs come through people coming up at the end of the dance and saying how much they enjoyed the evening and could we give them a card because they had a wedding/birthday party/anniversary etc. coming up in their family or their works/school PTA/social club etc. would probably like to have a dance.

I know that it is not the most useful advice, but the best way to gets lots of gigs is to have a full diary of gigs and make sure that they go well.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 11:24 AM

Look theres plenty of room for us failed folksingers on the bottom rung. You can even apply for resident status here. Theres no rush - and there are many ways to approach your calling.

Have you thought about Folk21? There is an almost unlimited need for hewers of woods, drawers of water, 'providers of PA to the stars' (all unpaid).

Just don't get above yourself....right?

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: johncharles
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 11:56 AM

for folk21 as I understand iy you need to prove a least six recent bookings.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Like a complete unknown
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 12:05 PM

"the best way to gets lots of gigs is to have a full diary of gigs and make sure that they go well"

That faint thudding noise you can hear is my head hitting the desk...

I started this thread in the first place because...well, mainly because I was feeling riled up and sorry for myself and wanted someone to give me one good reason not to be. But also because for me--and probably quite a few other Catters--"getting lots of gigs" is about as big a problem as "doing lots of TV" or "publishing lots of novels". There I was surrounded by people talking about doing whole strings of the things, and yet I didn't seem to have a chance of getting even one gig, even half a gig--why? why, O Lord, why? (That's how it seemed to me at the top of the thread, anyway.)

Thanks (again) to everyone--most recently Will and Matt--who has pointed out that (a) there is actually loads of stuff I could be doing to improve my chances, and more importantly (b) making music for the sake of getting gigs is the wrong way round--it's as if you wrote a book because you liked the smell of printer's ink.

And now I really am off, before the secret of my identity gets any opener.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: johncharles
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 12:29 PM

I thought it was bodhran accompaniment!

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 12:38 PM

Combine the two - Mule Train!

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 01:13 PM

Good heavens, is that Brigadier Lethbridge-Stuart?

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: matt milton
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 06:00 AM

"You do hit a brick wall though if you don't have recordings to show for yourself. I'm occasionally asked if I have an EP or album, or even a business card. (Just occasionally, minf, not often enough for me to harbour any illusions about my popularity.) I always feel a bit ridiculous saying I don't; I get the impression I'm probably the only musician in the world who doesn't in 2012."

"I admire you for that, Matt."

Thanks Richard, though in my case it's less integrity than simply the fact that whenever I listen back to recordings I end up thinking "god, do I really sound like that?!"

and want to junk it immediately.

I think the rough and tumble of live youTube footage is the way forward for me.

Mind you, I am about to sink a phenomenal amount of money on an amazing Elysian guitar, handmade in Blackheath by master luthier Matthew Carter. If I buy it, I will absolutely HAVE to pull my socks up.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,Phil E. sans cookie
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 06:24 AM

whenever I listen back to recordings I end up thinking "god, do I really sound like that?!"

The first time I heard my voice recorded I honestly thought there was something wrong with the tape-recorder. As for the first time I heard my sorry attempts at playing an instrument...

I find the trick is to record and forget, then spring the recordings on yourself at a later date - play a batch of recordings while you're doing the ironing or something. I've had recordings I thought were complete failures improve miraculously in the space of 24 hours not listening to them.

The performance does have to be that much better, at least technically, if you're recording - playing live you can blow past the bum chord or the fluffed line and nobody minds. Yet another hurdle for poor aspiring wallabies ("but I won't have to be perfect on the night...").

Latest frivolity: The Crow on the Cradle. Pro tip: if it sounds like rubbish, leave it 24 hours and try again.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 05 Aug 12 - 06:29 PM

Footnote to this thread:

I had also met Graham Bond (RIP) (...) Graham had a true, shining heart which beat music. I was a weedy sprog, but he gave me his full attention and the best, the only true, advice I've ever had in music, which was simply that you Have to do what you Have to do. (...) I mean to say by all this that Graham showed me life would, in the future, be complicated... but that one had to retain some kind of inner strength in order for it to make sense, or to be worthwhile. This is - even if it has been something of a digression - my long-overdue public thank you to him. It is boundless. If I had not met Graham and, through him, been connected to Pure Music I very much doubt that I would have retained my (still current) enthusiasm, interest, commitment, whatever to or for Doing Stuff.

From Peter Hamill's notes on the 1997 reissue of his/VdGG's first album The Aerosol Grey Machine. Wise words mate.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: GUEST,guest -Freddy Headey
Date: 13 Nov 13 - 06:44 AM

@stallion
Elle Osborne
www.elleo.com/

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Eldergirl
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 08:21 PM

The bottom rung? Oh, yeah. It would be nice to be asked because you like what I sing. just a 20 minute spot of my own..
Well, a girl can dream I suppose.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 06:44 PM

Didn't think we'd be seeing this thread again!

Eldergirl - thinking about the difference between the kind of people who get asked to do spots and the kind who don't (e.g. me), I think there are three ways of looking at it.

We don't get asked because...

1. We're just the wrong people: we don't have the looks, the charm, the ready banter, the knock-you-dead instrumental skills, the voice that you could listen to singing the phone book.

This is the most obvious explanation, but I think it's wrong. There are people out there with amazing instrumental skills, utterly beautiful voices or both (the bastards!), but there are others whose names we all know who have neither. And it can't all be down to looks and charm.

Alternatively, perhaps:

2. We're not doing the right things: making the rounds of the local (and less local) clubs, being seen at festivals, identifying five or six numbers that go down well and concentrating on them - and let's not forget actually letting it be known you'd like to do a spot.

And perhaps we're not doing those things because we don't want to badly enough, or at all. Personally I like learning new songs, I like having my weekends free and I'm quite fond of getting seven hours' sleep - so I don't repeat songs a lot (even if they went down well the first time), I don't go to festivals & I don't do that many weeknight singarounds. Which means that nobody outside a couple of overlapping groups of singers knows who I am - & nobody ever asks me to do a spot. As my Dad used to say, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

Subject: RE: Getting on the bottom rung
From: Eldergirl
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 04:29 AM

Cheers Phil. As my Dad used to say, no point flogging a dead horse. I wasn't after A Career, either, just an acknowledgment, or 2!! Well at least i'm on a Whittlebury CD, that might count for something!! LOL.