 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Pre-Hindsight
|
|
|
Subject: Pre-Hindsight From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 29 Jun 02 - 07:23 AM All of us have had times in our lives where it was hard to see our way forward. Sometimes, problems are so overwhelming that there doesn't seem to be any hope of resolving them, or even surviving. But, after we've come through them and get some time and distance, we can see that we have actually been strengthened by the trial. Looking back over my life, I can see how I have been shaped more by the hard times than the good times. That's the value of hindsight. But, many years ago, I hit such a hard place that I didn't have the luxury of waiting for the time and distance to see the good in what was happening. I needed pre-hindsight... the ability to see with the perspective of hindsight *while* terrible things were happening to me. There were times when I found great humor in my situation and I'd say to myself, "Allright, so where's the good in all this?" Sometimes, I could see it. Sometimes, I just had to laugh at how ridiculous my life was.
I have talked with one of my sons about this alot, because he has suffered through times far worse than I ever did. One of the advantages of getting older is that each time you find your way through a situation that seems hopeless, you're building a foundation that will help you get through the next hard time... the confidence to know you can do it, because you've done it before.
One thing about hard times. They are never over. They may seem to disappear for awhile, but you know that something is going to hit you again when you least expect it. I wonder how others on the Cat have dealt with hard times. I also find that having a sense of humor is a life-saver. If this thread stirs any interest, I'll add an anecdote of inexplicable things that have happened in the past that have given me the ability to see the good in the hardest of times. I know that more will come. Some Catters are going through them right now. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: DMcG Date: 29 Jun 02 - 07:36 AM I would certainly agree that a sense of humour is vital at these times, but "building the foundation" for the future is spot on. It helps if the problem you have is a recurring one, in some sense or other. My wife has had a problem with a storm phobia for over 25 years, starting when she was caught in a hurricane in Washington DC. She is particularly concerned about damage, either to the house or to the family. She has finally managed to overcome it in the last year - with psychiatrist's help - by, amongst other things, making an entry in a diary every time the weather forecasters predicted storms and gales *on the day* they made the prediction; then *next* day writing 'no damage' after the entry. As a result she has a diary full of non-events that she can refer to if she sees feels panic rising. This is by no means the only treatment, but it stops her only remembering those occasions when we lost a tile, or whatever. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 29 Jun 02 - 07:46 AM That's a great approach,DMcG! Just as people have talked about writing words down helps them to learn a song, I have always found that writing letters helps me to see my situation more clearly. There have even been times when I've felt that I needed to get control of my life, where I didn't want to unload so heavily on friends where I've written a "Dear Me" or a "Dear God" letter. Just the process of putting my thoughts in order on paper helps me to see things more clearly. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: Art Thieme Date: 29 Jun 02 - 09:11 AM Jerry **knows** pretty darn well, from all of our letters that have passed between us over the many years---more than twenty now --- way before e-mailings when the venerable typewriter was the mode of communication, that I (we in our house) know about pre-hindsight and it's uses all too well. For me, I could enumerate MANY similar tales, but I'd rather not do that in this public forum. What I can say is that I have finally, at this late date, learned the nearly unbelievable value of human kindness and loving, supportive contacts and karmic acts. There are not enough pages of cyber-paper in all of cyber-space to even begin to lay it all out for you here without having at least a few of you succumb to death by old age before finishing the treatice. Just know that I now realize that we are all Job in our own ways------and it won't kill us--hopefully. Jerry and I have been through-the mail psychiatrists for so long that I sometimes take it and him for granted now and it's great to have this public forum just to say THANK YOU to Mr. Rasmussen who showed me that even if "all I can leave you is a handful of songs", well, I guess that's always been my mission from the get-go and/so that'll have to be it. This electronic method that Max has miraculously and lovingly provided for us all has been my way of staying in things music and folk related and even, too often, B.S. related in recent times. These days that's my kind of spirituality even if the old G-word isn't one I beieve in using --- to the consternation of many here or so it seems. Even if I don't "believe"----please know I appreciate all of you because I truly do feel we are saying the **same things** whatever we choose to call it!! I'm proud to say, as stated in the song I was the first one to record, "THE MASTER OF THE SHEEPFOLD", please allow them to "all come a-gatherin' in." To me, it might sometimes seem like "all that I have is my grandfather's hammer", but through Jerry's concept he calls pre-hindsight, I've been more able to see my way through a ton of tough stuff that almost swamped me---but didn't. I once was blind but now I see----and knowing it now helped me then. Does that make sense? It does to me. Once you know it, it's a gift that does keep on giving. So take it seriously, folks. It ain't no "grandfather's hammer" but it is a fine tool. Love to J.R. and all o' "youse" (as some are fond of saying here in the middle of Illinois). Thanks for being here. And that ain't no pre-hindsight; it's good old-fashioned hindsight. And here's looking forward to more of the same. Art Thieme |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: GUEST,maryrrf Date: 29 Jun 02 - 10:35 AM Jerry, you are absolutely right and it was good to hear it now, while some things are going on in my life that I wish would just get resolved. I know they will, but it's tough sometimes getting through it all and it sometimes seems like there's so much involved that they never will! I think this ties in with what some mystics call "The Dark Night of the Soul", and is also expressed in such sayings as "It's always darkest before the dawn" and "Behind every cloud there's a silver lining". They may seem trite but they're true. What they don't emphasize is that while you're in that dark hour, or in the midst of the cloud - you can't see the silver lining or feel the dawn coming on, so that's where your faith has to come into play. Another thought - I read this somewhere. Everybody wishes for a problem free, happy life, but if you were to meet such a person you would not call them "blessed". That person would have no depth, no empathy, and probably no appreciation for the good things they had. It brings to mind certain wealthy suburban housewives I know who bitterly lament and make themselves miserable about things like not being able to find a competent maid, not being invited to a certain fashionable party or event, etc. etc. One thing that helps me through difficult times is songs - especially sad ones. Not that I delight in other peoples tragedies, but it helps me put my own problems and disappointments into perspective and realize that sadness is also part of the human condition - it lends balance and depth and, ultimately, leads us to a deeper understanding and appreciation of our own humanity. (The above comments are not meant to disparage wealthy suburban housewives, by the way!). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: Bobert Date: 29 Jun 02 - 11:27 AM Now I don't want to start a raging battle here, but I think of pre-hindsight as the Holy Spirit talking to me. Yeah, sure, we all face adversity and there are those who believe that God controls everything and creates adversity. I disagree, I think man creates mush of his own adversity and certainly doesn't need the Lord's help in that department. But, He certainly is masterful in helping us thru the hard times and I think the greatest blessing that He has given me is my Faith and the knowledge that he will be there to show me the way when things look un-navigatable. And thanks fir this thead, Jerry. Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: CapriUni Date: 29 Jun 02 - 02:36 PM I think the technical term for Pre-Hindsight is Insight -- what you see when you're in the middle of it all... My life has been relatively brief, but during that time, I have acquired a wee bit of wisdom with my wee bit of years: I've discovered discovered that most of my stress comes from my imagining how bad the trouble will be in my future. The fear of falling is always worse than the fall itself -- even if I bang my funny bone, bark my shin, and scrape my knee. Trouble may and will come, and even if it is pure #@!!&**?! at the time, it's not going to last forever, and it's nohing that I can't bear, and I can always get up in some form or other, and keep going -- even if I walk with a limp for a while. So, knowing that trouble will come (can't get away from it any more than I can get away from gravity), I've made a conscious decision to welcome it in the future, rather than worry about it, and see everything that happens to me as a wonderful oportunity -- if I fall down the stairs, I can later use what I learned on the way down to be a better architect... so to speak... Thanks for this insightful thread, Jerry! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 30 Jun 02 - 06:53 PM Hi, Art: Been away a couple of days, and wanted to respond to some of the thoughts posted in this thread. You and I can certainly vouch for the healing and strengthening power of correspondence. I think we can also speak for the foolishness of definitions. I realize that Mudcat thrives on definitions,but as I posted in another discussion, "definitions divide." Can't blame 'em. That's their job. I'v seen so many promising conversations killed on Mudcat as people get lost in trying to prove how different they are from other 'Catters, not how much they share. Now you na me, Art, we're opposite sides of the same coin. That may be true of me and Katlaughing and CapriUni. But thank God, or whoever anyone wishes to thank when we can just share a loving concern for each other, without trying to partition ourselves off. I've advised my son Aaron not to let anyone define him (including his Father), and not to define himself so rigidly that he doesn't leave any room for growth, change or personal revelations.
CapriUni: Thanks so much for your thoughts! I read your posting and had to smile because it reminded me of endless conversations I used to have with a friend of mine (who Art remembers.) Her philosophy of life was not to hope for anything, and always prepare for the worst. She argued that, if you prepare for the worst, you can handle it better when it comes. My point was that she was pemanently miserable because she thought that everything was going to fall on her head. 99% of the time, the "worst" never happened. Nothing even vaguely resembling the "worst." Besides, how can you prepare for the worst? On the occasions when it does happen, you have to deal with it when it gets here. I'd prefer to look back upon all the times when God-awful things happened to me, and friends of mine, where we not only got through it, but were the better for it. And sometimes, if we can see it while it's happening, we can get a glimmer of how something very painful at least holds the seeds of growth, strengthening, and being a more loving person.
And Marryrrf: While people are getting all bent out of shape about the pledge of allegiance, I'd like to change the Preamble to our constitution, from "and the pursuit of happiness" to, and Good Luck, in the Pursuit of Happiness." Happiness often can outrun the swiftest. My atttitude is happiness is a by-product of a life lived generously. It's the person who has sufferred through a problem who can give the greatest help to someone else who is going through it.
And my friend, Bobert: Hopefully, no one will be angry that you gave honor to the Holy Spirit. I would like to put the Holy Spirit in more accessible terms. Everyone has found themselves saying at one time or another..."Something tells me..." Pinnochio had Jimminy Cricket, good women and men of all shades of belief or disbelief in God have a common desire to live a good life(or at least try to convince themselves that they are doing it.) I do believe that most people have an internal voice that guides them, that they can choose to listen to or ignore. Like the little Devil and Angel that would sit on the shoulders of Goofy trying to convince him whether he should do something or not. For me, that "Something tells me.." is the Holy Spirit. If I'd listen to that "Something" more often, I'd be a lot better man.
I think that Marryrrf is right in that the real trick is to be able to see a glimmer if light in the darkness of night. That's why everyone needs something to have faith in... whether it's God or something else. A verse from another song I wrote on this...
"One thing certain we all know
Chorus: For the good old days are still to come Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: CapriUni Date: 30 Jun 02 - 09:06 PM Jerry -- we're opposite sides of the same coin. That may be true of me and Katlaughing and CapriUni. So... is that a 3-sided coin, or 4-sided? And what's the currency? ;-) Or maybe it's a die? And if so, does that mean I'm a little dotty? Personally, I don't like to think of myself as being "opposite" anything. As for the old friend my words reminded you of: She argued that, if you prepare for the worst, you can handle it better when it comes. That's just it. I've decided not to prepare for the worst, since, really, the only kind of preparing you can do is worry, and worry just makes me miserable. And besides, what appears to be "The worst" now may turn out to be "the best" when I get to it... It's the unknown that is frightening, but once I know it, it could very well be a blessing -- and no disguises! So I've decided to live only in the present (well, maybe I'll look an hour or so ahead) -- doing what I see needs to be done, and wants to be done, and to heck with the rest. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: khandu Date: 30 Jun 02 - 09:34 PM One of the more stupid sounding things I have heard is also one of the things that I say to myself when the hard times hit: "It's either going to be alright or it's going to be alright." That is what I have learned through hell and highwater. No matter what the situation or out come, it is going to be alright. Ten years ago I lost my wife of 18 years. I felt like I had been ripped in half and the world had fallen from under my feet. I walked away from the ministry, feeling that God had screwed me and my children. I was enraged and outraged. I hated living and waited to die. Through many tears, bottles of booze, heartaches and mistakes, I have found solace at last. It is alright. I still miss her and hurt when I see her absence in my children's lives, but...it is alright. Whatever happens, it will be alright or it will be alright. Sounds stupid, but it has proven true in my life. khandu |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 30 Jun 02 - 09:42 PM It don't sound stupid to me, Khandu. Another little saying (I tend to collect these in a corner of my mind) is we all get the life we perceive. Someone who perceives that even the greatest of tragedies will somehow be alright in time will find that it will indeed be alright. And how could you possibly have prepared for the loss of your wife? I mean, you can prepare for a fountain pen not leaking when you fly on an airplane by wrapping it in a leak-proof bag. Most of the real tragedies in life can't be prepared for. (Anyone ever have something leak-proof leak?)
CapriUni... no, not a die.. I just have a lot of coins. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 30 Jun 02 - 09:51 PM And by the way, Art: An almost-here Happy Birthday. Start celebrating! And check your mail for a pregnant envelope. I never gave as much as a I received. :-) Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: Art Thieme Date: 01 Jul 02 - 01:17 AM Thanks ahead o' time Jerry. Folks, as I've said here before, a fine book that helps me see stuff straight on is Alan Watts' "The Wisdom Of Insecurity". It's more Buddhist philosophy than anything else, but it's also just about as religious as I get these days. Art Thieme |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: Amos Date: 01 Jul 02 - 10:00 AM Applause all around for good thoughts. I suspect we are much less anchored in the present than we seem to be. For some of us this means constantly re-working the past, but for others, it can also mean skating lightly into the future(s) and renewing our bearings that way. Of the two, I greatly prefer the latter. Art, your zealotry amazes me! LOL! A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: C-flat Date: 01 Jul 02 - 02:07 PM Well Jerry, I've certainly had my share of hard times and it's true, they do shape you more than the good times. It's probably because of the nights lost in worry about things which are often beyond our control that problems can become "traumas" that we carry with us long after the event. I certainly have never lost sleep because things were going too well! Most of my hard times were down to bad judgement and a few were just bad luck but I've been lucky enough to be able to come out of my bad experiences feeling stronger and wiser. I don't want to get into detail but at one stage in my life I was going through a divorce and facing bankruptcy while my Mother was dying of cancer. Some sleep lost there I can tell you! At some point in all this there was a life-changing moment where I became pragmatic, maybe it was a type of safety valve shutting down before I exploded, but I could see beyond my emotions and could focus posotively on the things I could do something about and let go of the other stuff. Of course I couldn't save my Mother but I could be a positive force around her during her last weeks and felt closer than I'd ever felt to her before as a result. My philosophy on life is not just shaped by the bad times but also by the good that came out of them. Had I turned Left instead of Right at some time in the past, my life would be different but I might not have a true perspective on what's important, or know the value of real friends. In fact if none of my wheels had ever fallen off I probably would never have met my partner Julie or had the joy of being a father. Thanks for starting this Jerry, it does me good to re-visit that stuff from time to time! Merrick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: Art Thieme Date: 01 Jul 02 - 02:08 PM Amos, What zealotry? Please, define your term??!! And as long as I've got your attention----Now that it's July, How's the CD list shaping up?????? Art |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: SharonA Date: 01 Jul 02 - 02:19 PM Amos sez:" I suspect we are much less anchored in the present than we seem to be. For some of us this means constantly re-working the past, but for others, it can also mean skating lightly into the future(s) and renewing our bearings that way. Of the two, I greatly prefer the latter." Not me. I'm a past-reworker. But I'd prefer to be a pastry worker. ;^) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pre-Hindsight From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 01 Jul 02 - 02:39 PM The value in "reworking" the past is to make sense out of it so that you can put it to rest and get on with the present and future.
I have a grown son who didn't learn to walk until he was two years old. He never crawled. By the time he was five years old and in school, his lack of basic co-ordination was a serious handicap, so he was put into physical therapy. The first thing they had him learn to do was to crawl. He never went through that developmental stage, and until he went back and learned how to crawl, he couldn't continue his development. I think there is an analogy in there, somewhere. Sometimes, we have to go back and make sense out of the past if we are ever going to grow and mature as adults. I certainly did that for many years before I could see the good in some of the destructive things that happened in my life. Then, I could let them go, and learn how to live more positively.
I understand what you're saying, C-Flat. I can certainly think of countless times where I created my own problems. I too am greatful that I've come to where I am in life, with a beautiful, loving wife, a strong faith and the pleasure of many, many good friends. You being one... Jerry |