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Translation from Scots/English please?

Trevor 15 Oct 07 - 03:19 AM
GUEST,PMB 15 Oct 07 - 03:30 AM
Trevor 15 Oct 07 - 03:43 AM
s&r 15 Oct 07 - 03:44 AM
s&r 15 Oct 07 - 03:46 AM
Malcolm Douglas 15 Oct 07 - 04:08 AM
Trevor 15 Oct 07 - 04:29 AM
GUEST,leeneia 15 Oct 07 - 10:59 AM
Trevor 16 Oct 07 - 08:18 AM
GUEST,leeneia 16 Oct 07 - 12:05 PM
Trevor 17 Oct 07 - 03:35 AM
Jim Lad 17 Oct 07 - 03:37 AM
Trevor 17 Oct 07 - 03:59 AM
GUEST,Bob Pegg 17 Oct 07 - 06:30 PM
Trevor 18 Oct 07 - 11:21 AM
Trevor 18 Oct 07 - 01:21 PM
Bill D 18 Oct 07 - 02:10 PM
Rumncoke 18 Oct 07 - 04:48 PM
Trevor 24 Oct 07 - 08:17 AM
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Subject: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Trevor
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 03:19 AM

Can anybody help me to understand this please? It was apparently written by Robert Carver in the 16th Century. Some of it is obvious but I'm struggling with some of the more obscure words and phrases. Thanks.

Wo worth the tyme and eik the place
That scho wes to me knaw'n
For sine I did behald her face
My hairt was nevir my aw'n
My aw'n jo, my awn; my awn jo, my awn;
My hairt was nevir my awn.

Sumtyme I lyff't at libertie
Bot nou I doe nocht so.
Scho hes my hairt so faithfullie,
That I can lufe no mo;
No mo jo, no mo; no mo jo, no mo;
That I can lufe no mo.

To be refuist of luf, allace,
All erdlie joy's, adewe.
My mistress scho is merciles,
And will nocht on me rew;
Me rew jo, me rew; me rew jo, me rew;
And will nocht on me rew.

Nou am I leff't all confortles
And no remeid can craif.
My painis arre remediles,
And all the wyt yow haif;
Yow haif jo, yow haif; yow haif jo, yow haif;
And all the wyt yow haif.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 03:30 AM

It's all pretty obvious except the last verse. This is more or less word for word into semi- modern English.

Woe be to the time and place
That she was to me known
For since I did behold her face
My heart was never my own.

Once I lived in liberty
But now I do not so
She has my heart so faithfully
That I can love no more

To be refused of love, alas
All earthly joys adieu
My mistress she is merciless
And will not on me rue

Now I am left all comfortless
And no cure can I crave
My pains are remediless
And all my wit you have.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Trevor
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 03:43 AM

Thanks very much for that - it wasn't obvious to me!


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: s&r
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 03:44 AM

Something like this?


Sad was the time and sad the place
That she was to me known
For since I did behold her face
My heart was never my own
My own jo, my own; my own jo, my own;
My heart was never my own.

Once I lived at liberty
Bot now I do not so.
she has my heart so faithfully,
That I can love no more;
No more jo, no more; no more jo, no more;
That I can love no more.

To be refused of love, alas,
All earthly joy's, adieu
My mistress she is merciless,
And will not on me pity;
Me pity jo, me pity; me pity jo, me pity;
And will not on me pity.

Now am I left all comfortless
And no remedy can craft.
My pains are incurable,
And all the skill you have;
you have jo, you have; you have jo, you have;
And all the skill you have.


Stu


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: s&r
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 03:46 AM

Crossed post PMB

Stu


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 04:08 AM

Almost all the words are still current in modern English, though some are spelled (and in some cases pronounced) differently nowadays. The trick is to read them aloud a few times; much of the mystery will disappear. You can sometimes get the sense of printed Dutch by doing the same thing.

The orthography is Scottish (and note the use of 'jo': 'beloved') but really this differed a lot less than people sometimes think from Northern English of the same period. I think that the attribution to Carver (a Scottish monk and composer of sacred music) may perhaps be questionable. Where did you get the text and information?


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Trevor
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 04:29 AM

It was given to me by Bob Pegg, who heard us singing at a gig and thought it would suit us.

The Carver information is from the sleeve notes of a 1997 album called 'Auld Flames' by The Feisty Besoms. (They also got it from Bob). I have searched a bit more without success.

I really appreciate the input, thanks very much.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 10:59 AM

Thanks for posting, Trevor. That was interesting.

I agree with you that it's far from obvious what it all means. Most people, seeing 'scho,' for example, would think it was a variant of 'shoe.'

What sort of singing group do you have? Just curious.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Trevor
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 08:18 AM

We're a five-piece band performing, mostly unaccompanied, a whole range of stuff from ancient to contemporary, passing chapel hymns,a bit of shape-note and parody on the way - anything that we find enjoyable to sing, basically.

I've just added some new tracks to our myspace page, here, if you're interested.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 12:05 PM

Thanks for the link, Trevor. I enjoyed your music.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Trevor
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 03:35 AM

Well, thank you kindly, madam or sir.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 03:37 AM

Wow! Real singing. Very nice, Trevor.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Trevor
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 03:59 AM

Wow, thanks Jim!


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: GUEST,Bob Pegg
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 06:30 PM

Hi Folks - the sum of the various renderings pretty much has it nailed. I'm sure it's not Carver, but anon. Trevor, enjoyed the Myspace music. Hope you get around to singing "Wo worth...". It would sound well with your combination of voices. BP


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Trevor
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 11:21 AM

Nice to hear from you Bob. We started to work on it last week - I'll make sure to get to hear our finished result.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Trevor
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 01:21 PM

That should, of course, have read '...I'll make sure YOU get to hear our finished result'.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 02:10 PM

Very good, Trevor and group...."Chickens in the Garden" was sung by friends at our wedding (in the US)28 years ago, and it was so nice to hear an actual recorded version...and done 'just right'.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 04:48 PM

Have you ever heard 'All the great big gobblers in the garden?'
Cracks me up every time.


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Subject: RE: Translation from Scots/English please?
From: Trevor
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 08:17 AM

That one had passed me by - I like it!


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