Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day

Subject: BS: Attack on cops & ff's... sicker by the d
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 06:10 PM

What's wrong with people?

Tue Jul 6, 2:37 PM

By The Associated Press

ALTON, Ill. - An unruly mob lured emergency personnel to a housing complex near St. Louis with reports of a blaze, a shooting and other crimes, then attacked them with fireworks and bottle rockets, authorities said.

No one was injured in the onslaughts against firefighters and police in Alton on Sunday night and early Monday.

The attackers apparently intended the assaults as entertainment for a hundreds-strong crowd of adults and children who had gathered at the Oakwood Housing Complex to watch, said Mark Harris, a deputy fire chief who witnessed the attacks.

"Our firefighters got in there and started doing their thing, and out come the fireworks" including bottle rockets and Roman candles, Harris said. "It does appear we were lured in for that purpose."

There was no immediate word on any arrests or charges in the attacks.

Police Chief David Hayes told The Telegraph of Alton that the firefighters were first attacked when they responded to reports of a trash fire in the small city late Sunday night.

Separately, police officers were showered with bottle rockets fired from behind buildings at the same housing complex when they investigated a call falsely claiming someone had been shot and reports of fireworks being set off.

Firecrackers, bottle rockets and other fireworks are outlawed in Illinois.

Police officers and firefighters were attacked again when they returned to the neighbourhood to douse a blazing box early Monday.

Hayes said officers tried to control the assailants by using guns firing pepper balls. He said the assaults had turned his stomach.

"I'm so angry," Hayes told the newspaper. "This type of conduct is not supposed to happen in civil society."

Harris said the organized nature of the attacks — and its apparent entertainment value — was a particular concern.

"Helluva example for the kids," he said, adding, "the guys don't get paid near enough to be shot at."

Subject: RE: BS: Attack on cops & ff's... sicker by the d
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 06:32 PM

Is it 'happy slapping' targeting uniforms now instead of 'regular people'. Or some poorly articulated expression of anarchic reaction against authority? Or a mixture of both?

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:26 PM

Neither. I think if they thought they could get away with it they would have used guns. As it is, the responders could still have been burned or hurt. The problem is in the "entertainment value" of the attacks. Why people would do this is beyond me, but then so are suicide bombers and the thinking of those in the US who set up ambushes for police and firefighters -- this is not a new thing, just the spectators are.

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:51 PM

Oh, I guess you haven't heard of the Sovereign Citizens movement, gn-zer... It's part of the looney right and it advocastes killing anyone who works for the government...

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:32 PM

Good God. I had no idea.

Remember DG? Dreaded Guest? A former(?) Mudcatter, he talked of a lot of this.

"The redemption theory is an American conspiracy theory created by Roger Elvick and marketed as a tax evasion and fraud scheme. The theory claims that when the United States government abandoned the gold standard in 1933, it pledged its citizens as collateral so it could borrow money. According to Elvick, the government creates a fictitious person (straw man) corresponding to each newborn citizen with bank accounts initially holding $630,000. The theory further holds that through obscure procedures under the Uniform Commercial Code, a citizen can "reclaim" the straw man and write checks against its accounts.[1] Its adherents and various fellow travelers sometimes call themselves "Sovereign Citizens".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement



"INDIANAPOLIS -- Fed up and fired up, an increasing number of Indiana residents who have lost confidence in the government are going to extreme measures to claim they are "sovereign citizens."
By doing so, residents contend that they no longer have to pay taxes, claiming their homes as embassies and using identification cards that show them as diplomats, 6News' Rafael Sanchez reported.
Indiana authorities call such proclamations both illegitimate and illegal. About 10 people every month ask the state to put a seal on a document so that they can claim freedom from taxes."
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/22729218/detail.html


"The "sovereign citizen" movement is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in the theories of a group called the Posse Comitatus in the 1970s. Its adherents believe that virtually all existing government in the United States is illegitimate and they seek to "restore" an idealized, minimalist government that never actually existed. To this end, sovereign citizens wage war against the government and other forms of authority using "paper terrorism" harassment and intimidation tactics, and occasionally resorting to violence."
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/SCM.asp?xpicked=4

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 01:58 AM

Attacks on Fire Crews in the UK
This link leads to information on UK Fire Crew attacks c2008..... at that point there were seemingly around 6 attacks per day.... not sure whether this figure has changed but it does give some insight as to why the attacks occur.

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 08:50 AM

Actually, the Sovereign Citizen movement also thinks that the reason that the US requires birth certificates is so they can sell people to the Chinese???

Talk about some messed up thinkin'???

I saw a video the other night of a couple of SC nutballs who purposely did something to get pulled over by a cop so they could kill him which, BTW, they did...

Taliban ain't got much on our loony right...

B~

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 08:28 PM

Fire crews? Why? It says that "most" of the attacks are by youngsters but some are by adults.

That is a time when I hope some of those big hoses are turned onto the attackers. Literally blow them away.

I think I'll have to go back and reread 'Future Shock'.

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:09 PM

I can understand hostility to the police, if one is opposed to the state, for the police are enforcement agents for the state. But to firemen?

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:39 PM

we get occasional attacks on emergency services officers - firefighters, paramedics & police.

Normally folks involved are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, but I couldn't find anything about attacks for entertainment, tho we have had a few riots in different places at different times where drugs & alcohol probably weren't an ingredient, just the presence of police going about their legal business. Which of course is provocative to some folks.

Drugs & equipment are stolen from ambulances, too when the officers are attending to someone, and recently an ambulance was stolen & crashed by a man 6 times over the legal limit while the paramedics were attending to a patient. The patient had to be taken to hospital in another vehicle (police car???) which meant the paramedics would be operating without all their equipment, & the patient could be in danger.

sandra

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 03:12 AM

If you're stuck on a sink estate, been told you're stupid at school 'cos you can't read or write and no-one's picked up on it yet, failed all your exams, can't get a job, no way of ever having your own house..if your parents are alcoholics or drug users and you've never known a real day's love in your life, then you are seriously going to be fucked up bigtime.

Of course, there is also the situation where society has removed all the unwritten rules of life, like respect, compassion, empathy, support...and let them be replaced with anger, 'pissed off at everyone' and materialism all around saying you have to live your life *this* way, have *these* things, which some sections of society will never be able to achieve or have, and as we now can see, it can lead to a seriously fucked up section of society.

ANYONE in a uniform is fair game, but fire officers and ambulance crew are the easy option, because they don't arrest you like the police do. And they don't have weapons.

It's the uniform, not the person inside it.....

There is little in their brains and even less in their souls...

Can it be turned around..?

Maybe....

It is being tackled here in Torquay, where exactly the same thing used to happen. It's being turned around by folks who go out on the streets, keep an eye on things, approach a situation before it's out of control. They are befriending the youngsters where they can, listening to their troubled minds, seeking to help them, show them that SOMEONE cares...and it IS having an effect. Most of these people come from the churches.

Can you imagine arriving in this world and never knowing what love is? Never having a mother who cares, a father to look up to? Not even knowing who your father IS, in so many cases...being ignored, being made to feel that you are a piece of shit, by your own mother/father who never really wanted you in the first place, but felt it was their only way to get a house, to get out of their own hell...

Then, you are saturated by rules and stress and exams and "you will do this our way" ..told how you must live your life, what you must think, how you should behave...You know ALL about sex, but Fuck All about Love, and nothing has any meaning at all...NOTHING.....nothing.....nothing...

And you can see the rest of your life being exactly the same, with no hope and no help and no happiness..

So maybe you get REAL pissed off with people who are supposed to care, like the firefighters and the ambulance crews and you feel they don't give a flying monkey about you.....and somewhere in your muddled angry mind you decide to take ALL your anger out on the very people you shouldn't...because no-one has ever told you not to, no-one has ever told you how very special these people are, how they would put their lives on the line to save others...

And the beat goes on....and the beaSt goes on, growing ever angrier, breathing more and more fire into a society that has ceased to even see you....

So you MAKE them see you....


There are no excuses when these terrible things happen, but perhaps, there are reasons....

And of course, society, because of political correctness and fear of being sued, has sat back and watched it happen. We have watched as the fashion has become to be as thick and vacuous as you can possibly be. These people worship celebrity, their heroes are Jordan or Peter Andre or Lady Gagagagagooo. We tremble at telling kids "NO!" We seemingly have very few rights as adults, when it comes to how children are behaving, whilst children are saturated in them, and it has turned some kids into monsters..

Once you would get the death penalty if you killed a police officer. You'd also be dealt with severely if you ever set out to deliberately harm a police officer...now you'd probably get a cheer. Once attacking emergency teams wouldn't have ever been in the minds of anyone, for we always saw them all as incredible people who had our support 100%..

Something has gone very, very wrong........We all know what it is, but do we know how to fix it?

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 03:21 AM

Blimey LC, I agreed with some of that ;-)

Personally, I blame it all on Thatcher!

..almost being tongue in cheek there but not quite, after all "there is no such thing as society."

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 08:54 AM

Yeah, Thatcher had her hand in this as well as her across-the-pond counterpart in Ronald "McDonald" Reagan...

And, Lizzie... Well thought out and well written...

B~

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 10:44 PM

Well thought out and well written... - I agree

sandra

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 01:44 AM

Well, it seems to me that this may be where we've gotten.

I Didn't F**k it UP

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 03:24 AM

Thanks, Ebbie, that song is wonderful! I've just put it on my FB page, spread it around...and despite the laughter the truth within that song is inspirational....but...will 'they' work it out? ;0)

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 05:23 AM

Lizzie... me too.

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 06:24 PM

Hey, I see that Stilly started a thread on this song-Check it out. (I got it from a different source.)

But I agree- the song covers just about everything. :)

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 04:29 PM

Alton, IL - An Alton man and woman were cited with violating the city fireworks ordinance for their alleged parts in the July 4 fireworks disturbance at Oakwood Estates housing complex.

The man, Dequan D Searles, 19, of the 3100 block of Lawn Street in the Alton Acres public housing complex, formerly had been charged with misdemeanor disorderly conduct on July 20. A judge had set bond of $3,000 for that charge.

Subsequent to that charge, on July 23, the city cited Searles and Lucie M. Pigee, 54, of the 700 block of Oakwood Road in Oakwood Estates, with violating the city fireworks ordinance.

The ordinance violation complaints say Searles possessed and discharged bottle rockets and Roman candles, and that Pigee had purchased and possessed those two types of fireworks. The complaint against Pigee does not say whether she provided fireworks to Searles.

The Madison County Circuit Court was to issue summonses to Searles and Pigee.

Police said three juveniles also are facing charges related to the incident, but their names and other information are not being released because of their status as minors.

The citations and charges follow an investigation by police and Alton Housing Authority officials, which included their spending three to four hours evaluating images on videotapes taken by surveillance cameras of the melee on July 4 and 5.

Authorities claimed people in the crowd of hundreds that had gathered at Oakwood started a large trash receptacle on fire a total of four times on July 4 and 5. Late July 4 and early July 5, some of the people also shot fireworks at responding firefighters and at police who were checking out fireworks reports and attempting to assist firefighters.

Police used pepper-ball guns to quell the crowd. The mob then left behind a mass of fireworks debris and beer bottles, among other trash strewn across the housing complex grounds.

AHA officials said they were in the process of evicting two families for their members' or guests' fireworks-related actions. In addition to the arrests, three residents are being evicted. A third family also allegedly involved in shooting fireworks already is being evicted for other reasons.

After the incident, police began conducting additional patrols of government low income public housing complex.

Subject: RE: Attack on cops & firefighters...sicker by the day
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 04:40 PM

???