High Level Ranters - Help

Subject: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Fiolar
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 07:35 AM

In the High Level Ranters record "Border Spirit" there is a track entitled "Gan Te the Kye." What is or was a "kye?". Hope one of our Northumberland 'Catters can help. Thanks in anticipation.

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 07:40 AM

A large drystone enclosure for the folding of sheep. actually sheep-folding sounds rather painful 8)

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Fiolar
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 08:00 AM

Thanks Minstrel.

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: MMario
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 08:40 AM

but sheep don't fit into your pockets properly if you don't fold them.

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 08:51 AM

Kye or kine is the (dialect) plural of cow (or coo)

For once I had a score o' kye
Ochone, ochone, ochree
Feeding on yon hills so high
And giving milk to me

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 10:09 AM

In the song Bonny at Morn which is also from the North East, it's pretty obvious from the context that the line The Kye's in the corn refers to Cattle - just dialect for cows.

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: IanC
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 10:33 AM

"Kye" is the singular of "kine". In fact, Kine is just an -n plural of "Cow" (Cowen) pronounced in a particular way. Kine, spelt like that, found its way into the King James Bible. "Swine" is another -n plural (in this case of Sow) though I've never heard anybody call them Sye.

The -n plural is, in fact, very common all the way up the East of England (I think it may be Danish as this was the area of the Danelaw). Another one, very common until recently is Shoon (for Shoe).

I know one or two people in Cambridgeshire who seem capable of using -n interchangeably with -s for plurals, though they do use it regularly for certain words.

:-)

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: belfast
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 10:57 AM

The dictionary most ready to my hand (Collins New English Dictionary, 1956) gives this: "kye, ky n.pl. (Scot.) cows."

A great invention is the dictionary and, for a technophobe like myself, remarkably easy to access.

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:47 PM

Great thing the dictionary, also wrong as it is not a specifically Scots term.

I must say that I have never heard the term used for a sheepfold.

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Mr Happy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:03 PM

agnigami= the ancient oriental art of sheep folding!

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 07:24 PM

I have to take issue with Ian C that "kye" is singular.

Getting away from dictionaries for a moment to real life usage, anybody I ever knew who talked about "kye" would have been referring to the plural of "coo".

Murray

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Boab
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:39 AM

In Scotland I have seldom heard the word "cows' or even "coos" used. "Kye' was the only plural I ever used for mair than yin "coo" in all my years as a country laddie. So too with the word used for the plural of "shoe". "Shoon", "shune " or "shuin" [as spelled in different areas]. My wee sister, being befriended by a "posh" lady in the train, who politely inquired as to the purpose of the day-trip, solemnly informed her that "I am going to town to buy a pair of new shuin!"

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 07:49 AM

Normally Kye would imply cows but obviously to "Go to the cow with me" would be a bit of a roundabout way to open a discussion on country matters. In context this implies a place probably secluded ;)

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Fiolar
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 08:46 AM

I did know that "kye" was a dialect word for "cow" but in the High Level Ranters song it makes no sense at all to say that "gan te the kye wi me" means "come to the cows with me" and that is why I posted the query. Minstrel's explanation about it meaning an enclosure sounds much more logical.

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: smallpiper
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 08:49 AM

What's logic got to do with it?
It could be reffering (I'm guessing because I don't know the song)that he/she is asking him/her to go to see the cows i.e out in the cow shed where there's a hay loft ??? wink wink nudge nudge! Just as Wandering Minstral suggests

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 02:30 PM

in the High level ranters song book , in the tune "Felton Lonnin" Kye definately refer to cattle and in the "Folk songs and ballads of scotland" comp./edited by Ewan maccoll there is a glossary of term in the back. 'Kye' means cattle according to this book.
Hope that helps.
   with regards.
    pete.

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: CraigS
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:28 PM

One goes to the kye (or beeasts, as they are called where I come from) to attend to their needs - to make sure there are none in distress, ensure they have water, etc. - or to bring them back for milking, unless they are close enough to the farm to be called in. Nothing strange about going to them - it's a chore that has to be done, and to make them wait would be unkind, particularly if they need milking. So if you wish to talk, you can walk to them and talk at the same time.

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Learchild
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:36 PM

Think CraigS is probably getting close, it could just be two lovers going out to tend the cattle together. As a Northumbrian lass thats my best guess, I could ask Johnny Handle tomorrow night for you as he runs a club at the Bridge Hotel, Newcastle, one Wednesday in the month -i.e. tomorrow.

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Abby Sale
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 09:45 PM

This is handy: The New Geordie Dictionary

It agrees with cow

Subject: RE: High Level Ranters - Help
From: Boab
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 01:56 AM

Learchild---Johnny would be the ideal man to ask---he's one of the old "Ranters", along with Ali Anderson [now there's the best concertina in the British Isles!] , Tom Gilfellan and Colin Ross.