Tech: How long should a website take?

Subject: How long should a website take?
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:36 PM

Some of you who work in the web industry may be able to enlighten me here.

The agency where I work has paid a local design firm a LOT of money to build a website from scratch. It's six months now, it still isn't finished, although we submitted the last of our information several months ago. Now they are saying a couple of the changes we asked to make require re-coding, and that could take 2-3 more weeks. Then it may take longer for the web host to get it online.

It seems like they are taking an awfully long time with us... but not knowing how to build a website from scratch, I don't really know.

Opinions? Thanks. :-)

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: MMario
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:38 PM

depends on how complicated it is.

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:43 PM

Yeah, it does seem like an awfully long time, Kim. Did they put up some sort of preliminary Website, or have you been completely without a Website for 6 months?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Cappuccino
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:44 PM

A couple of years ago, website design was one of those very fascinating get-rich-quick schemes for people who had read one page in the manual ahead of everyone else... now that everyone, including me, can put a website together, there's no point in being blackmailed by them unless you really are looking for something complex.

The best websites are simple - so I'd be inclined to fire them.

- Ian

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:48 PM

(sorry, y'all, I meant for this to be BS)

Well, not knowing squat about websites, I'm not sure what's considered complicated. We have several pages of mental health information, a page of links, etc. It seemed pretty basic to me.

I guess we can't fire them now, because they're almost done, and they have already got most of our money.

Keep in mind, too, that I was not involved in this project at all until the decision to go with them was already made, and someone else in my office decided they didn't have time to fool with it. Had I been involved from the beginning I would have pointed out that there is plenty of cheap and/or free space available out there, with templates for the HTML-challenged.

Oh well.

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:52 PM

Sounds like you got snookered. Unless your website has the breadth of say Amazon.com, I can't imagine it taking 6 months to create.

As was said above, the simpler is usually the better. Lots of fancy mouse-overs and annoying videos just clutter up a website and make it harder for customers/clients to find what they really need.

Alex

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:55 PM

I enjoy playing with HTML, but I couldn't begin to put together a website that handled any kind of commerce and needed a secure purchasing arrangement. Also as MMario mentioned, the sophistication level can involve many things (updates, databases, input, cookies to individualize visits, animations or other pizazz.) I think where a lot of commercial sites fall short is that they don't use good graphic design. This is where the artsy folks really know best. Then my pet peeve is that lots of technically complex sites with beautiful artwork will have glaring typos. It really takes a team for a sophisticated commercial site.

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:57 PM

Ummm... I designed the majority of mine using the Netscape composer over the better part of an afternoon and evening... that included ghosting around and stealing a couple of backgroounds AND composing the content!!

LOL!!!

Not that there's much to my web site...

www.swordforhire.org

:-)

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:57 PM

Oh, no, not me - my BOSS got snookered. ;-) (It's because one of our board members works for said design firm, and I guess no one had the foresight to check out other options.)

'Course we got a grant, so it's not out of our pockets really, but the people who gave the money for the express purpose of getting us a web page would like to see some results, and rightfully so.

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Cappuccino
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:59 PM

I really * do * sympathise, Kim, even if I didn't sound sympathetic before. I spent a year working for a publisher (I'm a magazine writer) who didn't understand websites and wouldn't let me run him up a cheap-and-cheerful one for free... he was absolutely convinced that he had to pay someone to make it look flashy, because he thought that everyone was impressed by websites with bells and whistles.

So he hired some raving lunatic who now charges him sixty quid (a hundred dollars) an hour to do the simplest updates. And this lunatic used a program that apparently very few others do because it's so complicated - which means that to take the job away from him would mean a complete re-build.

I think you have one of those awkward cases where the client has to build into the deal a safeguard that the contractor can never be the only one who understands what they're doing... otherwise, they'll have you over a barrel for life.

If you're really stuck with them, make their next job the training of one of your own staff on how to do site maintenance.

Good luck! - Ian B

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 05:08 PM

The software they're using is supposed to let us make changes from here, so we can keep our event calendar updated and all that.

Clinton's got a nice web page. One of these days I'm going to try his mead recipe.

I did my page at iVillage, with a template. SOOOOOOO easy. There's a couple of things about it that bug me, but it don't cost me anything except the time. All I do is update the calendar and change the photos around.

I just really think my office could have done a lot better, if they had just put some thought into the thing.

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 05:43 PM

There are a number of designer-made flashy sites out there that are very difficult to use. Some even seem to hide their "click" positions. Needless to say, I don't go back.
Sorry about your problem. Make copies of these notes and also find a local high-schooler who has put together a website. Show them to the executive and holler to the membership so that a similar case doesn't arise again.
I fought a losing battle against a "new image" executive who hired a designer to remake the stationery, leaflets and logo of our group. Several thousands were spent before the whole thing cratered because the end result didn't meet our needs. The guillotine is too good for some of these proactive directors.

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 05:46 PM

Mine is 100 + pages.
I used mostly Frontpage and edited the html where needed. It took me about 4 months in my spare time. If, I had had unlimited time to work on it constantly, I probably could have completed it in a month and a half to two months.

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:43 PM

Just out of interest...

The firm I work for paid the equivalent of two weeks' wages for a company to design a website; on seeing the results, I spent a couple of evenings putting one together. So which one is better?

This one or this one?

More to the point, who would you give the money to!!?

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: SeanM
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:46 PM

From my experience, it depends on what and whom the affected parties are all dealing with.

If you've any e-commerce features to deal with on the site, that can seriously cause delays. Setting up your own transaction system is a fiendishly more complicated task than working through a company that already has the infrastructure in place and just plugs your company through. The advantage to having in house though, is that you KNOW what is going on and have positive control of the procedure.

But seriously? Unless there's been some sort of MAJOR difficulty, you should be suspicious. Given that you're only talking about maybe 12-15 pages from the sound of it, unless there's an unholy amount of toys being loaded on (javascript, flash animations, that sort of thing), or unless they're running into problems with payment services for e-commerce angles, or unless they are having problems with your company in regards to the site, I'd believe they're stringing you along.

BTW - don't rule out the last. Company that I worked at went through about 5 months of turmoil over the site, because the person on our side (also an owner) kept changing the specs. Usually without informing the folks working on the site.

M

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:53 PM

Woops... spelt an address wrong!

Try again!

It should have had the hyphen, but they set it up without...

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Gareth
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:01 PM

I find "HOT METAL" a very good tool. And If you use the "feebies" edition given away with the magazines it don't cost.

For Example This one was created over a weekend for the last UK General Election.

I must update it when everybody decides whats going in it !!

For the moment the surplus space is hosting The Shambles Press Coverage on Performing rights Licencing HereShows what can be done.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:07 PM

Sorry - got so wound up that I forgot to mention...

Anyone can get a website up and running inside a couple of hours. You can get 15Mb of free webspace, for example, on Freeserve (in the UK) within minutes of signing up.

No web host should take any longer than that to get a site online - uploading is child's play these days. I'd go along with SeanM's 'stringing along' theory...

I've designed (and maintain) websites for two local folk clubs, too...

The Railway Folk Club and The Open Door Folk Club, both of which are on the same Freeserve webspace...

I registered domain names with easily.co.uk - very cheap! - each of which came online within 24 hours...

I work as a sound engineer... am I in the wrong job, I wonder...?!!

--- Links fixed. ---
---Jeff (PA)---

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:13 PM

Woops again... I'm tired and should be in bed... missed quotes out of the links... so they disappeared... zzzzzzz

The Railway Folk Club and The Open Door Folk Club, both of which are on the same Freeserve webspace...

I registered domain names with easily.co.uk - very cheap! - each of which came online within 24 hours...

I work as a sound engineer... am I in the wrong job, I wonder...?!!

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:21 PM

Parting shot before I go to bed...

I use a neat little text editor called 'Arachnophilia' which is the best thing since sliced bread... it's 'careware'!

Get Arachnophilia here!

Subject: RE: Help: How long should a website take?
From: Bert
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:47 PM

er folks... MAX BUILDS WEBSITES!!!!