What format will Albums be produced on?

Subject: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:32 AM

Well time are a changing has anyone got any ideas just what format Artists will use to make there music available in the future. CD seems to be on their way out just like vinyl and cassettes. How good will this new technology be and how will the Artist rights be protected?

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Darowyn
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:52 AM

My guess at the moment and for the short tem future, it would be something like the little flash memory cards that are used for digital camera photographs.
The audio quality could be better than CD- they can hold far more data than a CD, though for people brought up on MP3s, audio quality seems to be something that does not matter, so the manufacturers will probably go for video content instead.
As for security for the artist, they will probably have some kind of copy protection- which will be hacked within weeks, so that will be just the same as it is now.
People with CD collections will moan that you don't get the benefit of the case notes and artwork on a one inch square of plastic.
People with LP collections will need to find their glasses before they can see them at all.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: GUEST,Diane Easby
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:56 AM

What format will copyright owners of archive material be using to make work available, George?
Or will they just be leaving it in the cellar as they have for the past quarter century?

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:32 AM

Oh I agree I expect that there will be some moaning and groaning at the changes it's a part of life. It will be particularly devastating for those types collectors who buy two copies and only ever play one to keep the other in mint condition. What kind of a file format will it use do you think. I'm not up to speed about I pods and MP3 players. It does seem a bit worrying to be carrying around your record collection in one place.

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:38 AM

Well actually Diane that is what I am trying to find out I have asked the same question else ware. But ether people don't know or they don't want to admit that the production of small amounts of CDR format Albums might be just the thing to fill the gap. I don't see the CD format lasting much longer do you?

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:53 AM

What kind of a file format will it use do you think. I'm not up to speed about I pods and MP3 players.

Or you could put it another way George - "I don't know what I am talking about".

CD's will be around a for a while I guess. Artists sell CD's at festivals and appearances. I suppose they could sell little flash players with everything on them, or you could download the tunes and notes from the internet.

There could be an Itunes folk area.

One thing is for certain - quoting I think Hitch Hikers Guide to Galaxy - "not only will it be stranger than we imagine - it will be stranger than we can imagine".

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: GUEST,Diane Easby
Date: 28 May 07 - 12:08 PM

the production of small amounts of CDR format Albums might be just the thing to fill the gap

What gap would that be, George?
The one left by the suppression of the Leader/Trailer archive since your mate acquired it?
Small amounts of CD-Rs, yeah, sneaked out by the back door without publicity and no royalties paid to artists.
Just the thing. Yeah.
Nobody's making anything very much, not even the rights owner.
Meanwhile, these artists are getting sick or have already died.

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 28 May 07 - 12:24 PM

I think the current CD format is about as small as it will get although it may switch over to DVD or Video CDs to accommodate more artwork.
Size matters to the 30 & ups and I think you'll find that most of us want something in our hands that looks to be, was worth the money.
Mini-discs are far more practical than CDs and never caught on.
Size, I think was the problem.

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 May 07 - 12:56 PM

This is something I am thinking about hard, as I get ready to go into the studio for my next album. Short term (i.e. for the next 2-3 years), I think that the CD market will be severely eroded, but will not disappear altogether in this timeframe. So I will certainly have to produce a number of CDs for those who will want to buy this format, but I will only be distributing those personally at gigs, festivals and through my website's PayPal facilities. Reviewers and radio stations will also require CDs in the short term.

In any case, the pricing on the CDs will have to change - when Joe Cocker's new album sells at supermarkets for £8.99, it is stupid for us lesser mortals to be charging the same or higher. Some artists have already knocked down their prices, and I am about to do the same.

I will investigate the cost of producing little flash memory fobs, on which to store the music and Adobe versions of the artwork and sleeve notes. If viable, I might have a small batch manufactured, to see how they go.

But for now, I think my emphasis for any third party distribution (i.e. not directly from me) will have to be the kind of service offered by CDBaby, where they distribute to digital services like iTunes etc on my behalf. I am already using that for the last two albums, and it is proving very useful indeed. As for artwork/sleeve notes for buyers of the digitalised/iTunes versions, I am thinking of putting those up on my website for viewing/downloading free.

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Darowyn
Date: 28 May 07 - 01:04 PM

One of the more forward looking of the Rock bands, Nine Inch Nails have produced a secret album, left around at gigs for people to find, on a USB pen drive.
Future audio formats will be developments of the data-compressed digital codecs (yes, I do know what I'm talking about, but you really don't want to know any more technical details, honestly!) like an inmproved version of MP3- of which there are already several.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 May 07 - 01:05 PM

Froma a practical viewpoint, it's hard to see that anything other than downloads will affect recording formats. CDs came in because they were less bulky and less expensive than LPs and much more convenient, durable and smaller than cassettes. A new format would need to present some advantage in order to be accepted.
      DVDs are certainly possible, but increasing the number of tracks on a disc means that royalties and other production costs would drive the price of the DVD way up past what the market will accept. As an example, a company called Juneberry has produced a DVD of old-time country music (MP3s) that contains some forty two hours of music on a single disc. It's almost impossible to sell--for one thaing, there's no room to print a tracklist. And for another, it sells for $35 (US) and folks who are used to spend $15 for a disc won't touch it, even though the per-song and per-hour cost is very low.
    Same thing applies to memory cards and the like. One future development which might have a significant effect on music marketing would be an improved compression system that would permit downloading of music of CD, rather than MP3 qulity.

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 07 - 01:39 PM

I can't imagine a format which would be more convenient than CDs. Anything much smaller and it'd be harder keeping track of them - note the way that for DVDs of films these are actually packed in a way that is relatively bulky, no doubt because the market research has shown that people prefer something they can get hold of more easily.

I suppose there will be people who want everything stored on a hard disc, or online. But I think there'll be a continuing demand for something you can get hold of and pass around.

At some point the technology comes up with something that sticks. Books, bicycles. I think CDs, or things that look and function like CDs (eg DVDs or whtever the technology and marketting comes up with, but that's basically just a matter of packaging), are probably another example.

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 02:24 PM

Thank you I had come to that conclusion but I was just wondering if it was just me.

I've just bought USB 4G Flash drive the price seems to have fallen in line with someone predictions or theory on Computers doubling in size and halving in price every year. I considered buying using an MP3 player to store data on but the Flash drive won the day. Maybe it's good news as everything is computer driven Cars Lifts and Supermarkets. Just think if the added a USB port to a lift we could plug in our flash drives and play some real music in those lifts at least. Certainly car manufactures must be thinking about adding MP3 or I pod systems to cars instead of CD players. They probably already do it, Sorry I'm not into drooling over car new car specks. Meanwhile back home on the PC you should be able to hold your collection in duplication and download the Covers and Artwork as well.

The only problems I have now are that I still have a vinyl collection and having bought a new PC that runs on Windows Vista. I then find USB turntable and software I need to buy to transfer my vinyl collection to the new media don't support Windows Vista. Which is a shame as they are less than a hundred pounds to buy.

Completely off the subject and yet linked my scanner don't like Windows Vista ether and all though the price of Digital Cameras have also fallen. But I dare not buy a new one at a bargain price just in case that doesn't like Windows Vista ether.

Oh dear and it doesn't seem that long ago when I couldn't buy a digital camera because it would not work on any thing less than Windows 98 and I had Windows 95 at the time.

Maybe when the British Government issues identitaty cards we will be able choose which music we can have on our Chip and Pin. But that is a long way in the future or is it?

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 04:21 PM

I've just seen the Tech: Vista-What's all the fuss about?
Thread and that seems a better place to learn about Widows Vista.

But I'm surprised no one has pick up on my Chip and Pin music idea. I can feel a Banjo player joke coming on no, no I'll resist till it happens.

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: oggie
Date: 28 May 07 - 04:45 PM

For the near future, CDs but prices in the UK will have to come in line with US prices. Longterm? some form of download format which gives a decent quality for playinf on something other than a MP3 player ie lossless compression as per APE or FLAK. The key issue will still be quality. How many 70 minute CDs have you bought which shorn of 5 "filler" tracks would have been a good 45 minute LP? This is what is hitting the pop market as with downloads you don't have to buy the dross.

Oh and BTW Tyke, content needs to be made available in any format, be a good troll and pass it on :)

Steve

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 04:54 PM

Yes you have my vote Steve and with proper safe guards to protect Artist rights. Some sort of Anti Spamming device that stops the moneymen flooding the web with what they want to sell would be good. So you can find just what you are looking for instead of the stuff that makes them the most money.

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:48 PM

Strewth, I hope you're all wrong. I've got a garage full of cds to sell!

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 May 07 - 08:05 PM

I've just bought USB 4G Flash drive the price seems to have fallen in line with someone predictions or theory on Computers doubling in size and halving in price every year.

Because I've been having fits with my computer for some months, and it's getting me to tear out my remaining hair, locking up with "program not responding" in many different operations, I've been advised by the Norton support to do a complete backup, have Compaq take the whole thing down to zilch and completely clean it out, whereupon Norton will help me get installed again.

Toward that end, in my innocence I bought a flash drive with only 4.0G, for 49.95. That filled up quickly (surprise! surprise!), and I gave my wife the packaging material and asked her to buy another just like it. She took it to a different Staples, and they gave her a package just like it, but with a sticker, "Enhanced for Windows", whatever that might mean. She asked, "Is it the same thing, like my husband asked for?" "Yeah, it's the same brand, same model, same capacity."

But when I compared the sales slips, what she bought cost DOUBLE what I had bought. The "enhanced" part consists, as far as I can see, of a piece of software which is functionless in my XP Pro environment. Pressures of time made me decide to use it anyway.

Surprise! I ran out of room again, and went back to my original staples. Talked to the manager, showing the two sales slips and prices. He said, "They're different. There's a skew." Whatever that might be. I pressed for what the difference was, and one of the store help, called in, said that it had software to make it compatible with Vista. I complained, and the manager said I could bring the "wrong" flash card back. I said I couldn't very well do that, because I'd filled it up, and pressures of time wouldn't allow me to do all that again, so I grudgingly am swallowing about a $50 overcharge.

I believe I will take my business to another office equipment chain.

Dave Oesterreich

I ran out of room AGAIN, and went back to my original Staples

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:00 PM

I think I'll carry my last post a bit further. As far as pop music is concerned, I suspect that downloads will rule the roost. Their limitations--mediocre sound quality, and lack of notes or artwork--don't seem to be chasing too many away, and, if you're only interested in today's big hit, they're cheaper than anything else.
    For classical music, and big band jazz and such, sound quality is more important, and CDs will be around for a long time. For folk, with its more specialized and limited appeal, I think the future is in CD-Rs; as far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be a durability problem anymore (and more stable dyes are rapidly becoming available), and while they're no cheaper than pressed CDs if you're making a thousand or so, they make initial cash outlay and inventory a hell of a lot simpler.And they sound exacly the same as pressed CDs.
      I know of at least three reputable labels, in both the UK and the US, who are selling quality CD-Rs, and making no bones about it (No, Ralphie, I'm not talking about Celtic Music). This type of small-run production is making it feasible to distribute some fine music that would otherwise be financially impossible.

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:02 PM

Uncle Dave I bought mine in PC world it's from PNY technologies for about £30. I did notice however that they had several other brands that cost a lot more money. I checked before I bought it at the service desk if it was compatible with Windows Vista and the answer was yes. It also works on Windows XP and it has a small set of instructions advising you how to download the drivers needed for it's use on Windows 98. It also has a two-year Guarantee, sorry, I'm sure all that information is rubbing salt in the wound. However I fell sure that others would turn up even cheaper places to buy these devises. Which always annoys when you have spent your hard earned money already.

Still 4 gig should hold a lot of music perhaps a right hand click with your mouse on the device and a look at properties will tell you just what going on. A right hand click and explore should let you see if you have accidentally duplicated your music files. I find that so easy to do with drag and drop I tend to use select copy and then paste into or better still if available right hand click copy to and then select your device.

If a 700 megabytes of CDR hold more than the contents of one CD a one gig should hold one heck of a lot of CD's never mind 4gig.

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:06 PM

Telempathy, but it's already too late to get in on the ground floor.

~S~

Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:56 PM

My own record label uses CDR format Dick and I do agree with you. I do not however produce anyone else's work. However you will have heard some of its contents when you have visited Whitby it drives most of the locals mad as the have to listen to the same track every half hour as the Mini Endeavour replica sails into Whitby Harbour. Still most of the visitors like it (up to 12000 a day) and although we have received or nor have we asked for any royalties I think that we are quiet happy just to have the music heard by the general public. The fact that the Mini Endeavour has been playing this CDR for 5 seasons or more and ever half hour should stand as testament to CDR durability.

It don't get much better when you visit Whitby Abbey New Visitors centre they play one track the "Whitby Fisherman's Hymn" every half hour on a sixty foot screen.

I'm not trying to sell this CD it is what was asked for by English Heritage songs as sung in the Pubs in Whitby warts and all. Do you know recording it kept us out of the Pub for the best part of two hours. The fact that we were paid to record it for English Heritage means that we don't receive any royalties from them ether however we did stipulate that we should have a copy of the Master. The money from the resulting production and sale has enabled the rest of the Lads to produce and record a new CD I do not know on what foremat.