Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???

Subject: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 02:39 AM

I have purchased a copy of Campbell & Sharp's English Folk SOngs from the Southern Appalachians. Printed in 1917 & previously belonging to Isabel Perry (IRP). Her owner's signature and a 1917 date are inside the front cover, & she has made various notes throughout the book such as "Collected by IRP only at Berry School", and "Olive and IRP".

My question is, does anyone know who she was, and whether or not she really did help Sharp or Campbell in collecting the songs. And, if she did, to what extent? Does anyone know of a resource where I could find some more information about her?

I am a complete newbie. I know nothing of this sort of research, nor of the story behind the collecting of these songs. I bought the book because I love Appalachian songs, and I love antique books... I'd just like to find out more about it. I would be thrilled to hear anything you may know... Thank you very much.

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 04:45 AM

I do not find any references to your Ms. Perry. Likewise, I cannot find a copy of the 1917 version available for sale. It is listed in the loc.gov (library of congress) catalogue. However, I cannot find Campbell to be assoicated with the book either.

It appears you have a rare find, here is a newer one for sale.

English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians. Vol 2.
London; OUP, 1952.2nd edition hardback, no dustwrapper. Blue cloth boards very slightly age-worn, but overall VG. A very nice copy of an extremely scarce title. Two hundred and two songs collected by Cecil Sharp in the southern Appalachians at the beginning of the 20th century.
Bookseller Inventory #758


Price: US$ 236.69 (Convert Currency)
Shipping: Rates & Speed

Bookseller: Birchwood Books, 8 The Colonnade, The Piece Hall, Halifax, WY, United Kingdom, HX1 1RE

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: masato sakurai
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 05:06 AM

I haven't heard of Perry. Not mentioned in Maud Karpeles, Cecil Sharp: His Life and Work (Routledge, 1967). Mike Yates wrote a detailed article on Sharp's expeditions in the Appalachians which is online: Cecil Sharp in America: collecting in the Appalachians.
~Masato

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: Willie-O
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 05:35 AM

Sounds remarkably like the movie "The Songcatcher".

Wasn't that supposed to be a fictionalized version of vaguely real life?\

If you haven't seen it Guest Anon, (why the funny name?) it's about a female musicologist who goes down south and finds some of the ballads in question at that time when they are unknown to folklorists, then her better known male colleague undertakes to take credit for the discovery....

W-O

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 08:47 AM

Guest Anonymous, you might be interested in this article about "The Traipsin' Woman." (which just happens to be one of my nicknames too!)

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: nickp
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:29 AM

Great links to photos. Thanks Mary.

Nick

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 11:20 AM

Say, Anonymous, could you tell us how much you paid for your treasure? I've been lusting after that book for a long time.
Is English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians one volume, or two?
-Joe Offer, jealous-

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 12:23 PM

Thank you. I'm anonymous because I bought this as gift for my mother, who sometimes visits Mudcat, too. I paid 275.00 for it. It's way out of my price-range, but we were so excited I am sharing the cost with the rest of the family... Have no idea if this is a reasonable price or not, yet. You can't find it online because I bought it! It's in the mail, already, but I haven't seen it. I have to admit I'm a little nervous about having done this. I bought it from sweetbeagle.com . It's one volume, supposedly in "good+" condition, with 122 songs; 323 tunes.

I intend to watch the movie Songcatcher, although I've been told it bears only minimal truth.

Now off I go to read those articles you linked to... thank you all!

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 01:27 PM

Oooooooooh!!!!!!! You're not MY son are you???? I've listed all kinds of hints...music books especially!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: GUEST,Chip A.
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 01:34 PM

Guest,

Contact David Brose, the folklorist at John C. Campbell folk school in Brasstown, N.C. Go to folkschool.org to find the e-mail or physical address. By the way, David worked as an advisor on Songcatcher. He's a nice guy and a warehouse of information. Let us know what you find out.
:-), Chip

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: wilco
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 01:54 PM

I would look at Berry College in Rome, Georgia. It was started many years ago as a place for poor young people to egt an education, by working on a large farm and crafts program. It's still there. The people you mention might be in their archives. Good luck!!!!

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: sed
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 02:23 PM

wilco48 beat me to it. Yes, Martha Berry's college was once a natural place for that sort of thing, I would think, but may not be now. I haven't heard of much folk music interest coming from Berry College in the past 20 years. It's maybe 50 miles north of where I frequently stay with my friend so I might be able to go over there someday and ask at the archives in the library, which I am assuming they have.
Steve

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: GUEST,anon two
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 02:56 PM

Good luck with this, Anon, and let me know how it all turns out (you know who I am (and I'm not your mother!)

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 05:57 PM

By the way, Mary in Kentucky... I thought I should dissappoint you right away: no, I'm not your son; not even male! Sorry about that... :-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:08 PM

Could this be a trick? Did I nail him? The syntax is all wrong, but the timing is right. What are the chances? Pretty slim...but if so...GOTCHA Baby Bear!

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:23 PM

Oh, you must be one of MY children. I've been so good to all of you this year, and I want that book so bad!
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: Art Thieme
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:50 PM

Chris,

Ya can't fool me. I'd know you anywhere. Thanks so much, in front. That's a Hull of a price to pay, but I'm worth it. ;-)

Love,

Dad

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: Burke
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 06:55 PM

Here's a short description of Berry that I found on their web site:

"Berry was founded in 1902 by Martha Berry (1866-1942) as a school for enterprising rural boys when few public schools existed in Georgia. A girls' school was added in 1909. Berry became one of the nation's most successful educational experiments, combining academic study, student work and interdenominational Christian religious emphasis."

Do you think the owner of your book might not have been connected with Sharp at all? Maybe she heard students at Berry & made notes in the book of those that she also collected. Has she also, possibly noted differences in the versions?

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: harpgirl
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:03 PM

I wish I was your mother, but I know I'm not! Nathan is getting me a green house plant! Let us know how your surprise turns out!

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:15 PM

Presumably Isabel Perry had worked with Olive Campbell and felt that her own contribution to the material which Campbell showed to Sharp, and which persuaded him that he should visit the Appalachians, had been ignored.

That would probably be down to Campbell rather than Sharp; for all that some (see "Willie-O"'s post earlier) tend to blame Sharp for the fact that Campbell is not better known. Look at any edition of Appalachian songs collected by Sharp which include songs noted by Campbell, and you will see that she is credited on the title page (though not on the outside cover in editions published after Sharp's death).

The songs noted by her (and perhaps by Isabel Perry, it would seem) are specified in detail in the preface to the 1932, and subsequent, editions; in which 39 tunes out of a total of 968 were collected by Campbell, if we are to accept Maud Karpeles' attributions; which seems not an unreasonable thing to be doing. The 1917 book contained far less material, with (proportionately) more songs from Campbell.

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 02:33 PM

Refresh

Chip

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Appalachian song collectors???
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 04:36 PM

oh dear oh dear...this is really very funny. Possibly Anon two does know me, (if you are J or R), but the rest of you had better stop anticipating...

Thank you to those who provided some information. I've faxed David Brose, so I'll have to wait and see if he has anything to say about it.