There's got to be an easier way!

Subject: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Darren Raleigh
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 03:31 PM

Hi Folks,

I'm in the process of trying to get the legal ducks in a row regarding the recording of my first CD. This thing may be successful, so I don't want to cut any corners and get bit later. Several of the pieces I intend to use are trad - no problem there.

But not all. I want to record and pay royalties on a Ralph McTell song. So I emailed his people (Leola Music) to ask if I may record it and how to pay them the royalties. Never a word did I hear.

I emailed Pete St. John (http://www.petestjohn.com/) with a similar question. Never a word did I hear.

I emailed the estate of Stan Rogers with a similar question. NAWDIH.

I CAN'T be going about this in the way that others do - nothing would ever get done! So, to you who have recorded covers of songs to which other people have the rights - how did you do it? Is there a service that I can just contact, make a contract, and send money to?

I'm stalled until I learn how to do this. Thanks.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 04:01 PM

You do NOT need permission to record and release any work that has previously been recorded and released. Songwriters have 'first recording rights', and if the song(s) hasn't been released, then you need permission in writing from the songwriter.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 04:05 PM

You may not need permission but it's better to ask the author now before you release than to get stung with a lawsuit afterwards.

LTS

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 04:13 PM

A submission to P R S (In UK ) should suffice - I believe there is a quite small charge levied by P R S for rights !

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Darren Raleigh
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 04:45 PM

Guest: Are you sure? This sounds too good to be true.
Liz: Are you sure? A lawsuit would just about put me out of the indie music biz.
Leadfingers: I'm fine sending money to PRS in the UK. That would take care of Mr. McTell, would it not? Would that also take care of Mr. St.John?

Thanks all.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: jeffp
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 04:57 PM

Once a song has been recorded, anyone may record it merely by paying the mechanical reproduction rights. I believe that that is currently 9.5 cents per copy in the United States. Usually the rights organization will have a minimum of 1,000, although some will do as low as 500.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: treewind
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:00 PM

You shouldn't need to send money to PRS in the UK. It has links to partner organisations in other countries so you dont't have to go to that much trouble. In the USA I know the rules are slightly different but you have an organization called ASCAP that I believe is equivalent.

It should be like Leadfingers says - you pay a fixed fee to one organisation Actually in the UK there are three organisations involved in a recording:
PRS = Performing Right Society
PPL = Phonographic Performance Limited
MCPS = Mechanical Copyright Protection Society

But anyway you shouldn't have to contact all the individuals concerned, just the organization(s) that handle that business, pay a nominal fee and send them a list of what you've recorded and who wrote it. If you wrote any of the material yourself you could benefit by joining the appropriate organisation too. (that's the PRS here in the UK)

Anahata

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Darren Raleigh
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:03 PM

Hey Jeff,

To whom do I send the 9.5 cents per copy? Some central rights organization? If so, what is it's name? Or to the publisher, i.e., Fogarty's Cove Music (for Stan Rogers' stuff)?

Anybody know if this covers songwriters from the UK? Ireland?

Thanks once again.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Darren Raleigh
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:04 PM

Anahata,

Cross-post. Thanks! I'll look that up!

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:17 PM

Darren - I'm not involved in the recording of music in any way so I don't know if you need permission or not. I'm just saying that MAYBE you don't need permissions but you'd be plain silly if you didn't find out for sure now before committing. Consult a professional music agent to be sure. Bear in mind how many requests these artists may get and follow up your Email requests with a written version. Emails can be deleted before being read properly, but a letter you have to open.

LTS

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Darren Raleigh
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:22 PM

Hey Liz,

Thanks. That's just what I was thinking. Trouble is, if I need permission and nobody opens their email, or comes home from a tour or...then I can't have permission.

On the other hand, if I DON'T need permission I'd be pretty silly to wait until someone opens their email, or comes home from a tour or...

I'm in the US. I've written to ASCAP and hopefully they'll tell me how not to get sued.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:25 PM

But if you have a copy of the letter sent, you can prove that you made every effort to contact the author to request permission, should they get pissy after you've recorded. If they can't prove they responded, you should be OK.

LTS

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Peace
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:36 PM

FYI.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:50 PM

I have just been looking at this for a CD I am producing.

If it is the CD you are worried about, you must get in touch with MCPS not PRS (PRS is for public performances).

The problem arises with the MCPS, when the person who has written the song, has a contract with a recording company and the recording company holds the rights to the song, and you definately need their permission.

Anyway after talking with MCPS, I will be charged a lump sum fee for selling no more than 500 copies. The cost is just under £71 total. All I have to do is send a copy of the CD to them once it is done, together with the forms. However I don't have to go seeking permission from the originators of the songs,unless I know it is the recording companies rights.

Get in touch with MCPS (Media Licensing Team on 020 8378 7500 ) they will send you the correct forms by e-mail and tell you exactly what you will need to pay and do. They were so so helpful.

Hope that helps.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Scrump
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:55 PM

I think the others are right - it's best to get permission, even as a matter of courtesy, so the writer knows you've recorded their song. But if they haven't replied within a reasonable time, go ahead anyway, it shouldn't matter.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 06:02 PM

1.   Do NOT advise on copyright unless you know the subject. Do not listen to advisers on the subject unless it is clear that they know.
2.   Copyright, and copyright rules, are jurisdictional. Different in the USA from England and different again in Australia and/or France.
3.   UK - MCPS
4.   USA, yes, there is a statutory royalty for re-recording, not sure of the current rules. ASCAP sounds likely but there used to be other agencies such as the Harry Fox Agency. Have a look on the ASCAP website. USA also permits parallel source licensing, so you can go direct to the composer or his music publisher, if you can find them, but a collecting society is likely to be easier.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Amos
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:17 PM

Harry Fox Agency

ASCAP

Others?



A

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Peace
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:18 PM

BMI
SOCAN

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Amos
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:23 PM

BMI

SOCAN (for Canadian music).

A

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 08:08 PM

E-mails aren't a very good way of writing anything important. E-mails can get buried in the spam, e-mail addresses can change, people don't always check their email, people can adjust what they wrote retrospectively etc. Can't really beat snail mail for some things. (Though a cleft stick is better, I suppose, if slower.)

My understanding is that there's no legal requirement to get permission to perform or record stuff, as against the obligation there is to pay the appropriate royalties, and to make sure the relevant people are informed, so they can collect them. But Richard's right, you shouln't rely on folklore like that as a source of legal guidance.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Scrump
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:19 AM

You could of course avoid all the hassle by only recording your own songs. That could be why so many artists do just that.

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: jeffp
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:43 AM

For information in the US, go to http://www.copyright.gov/.

The current mechanical royalty is 9.1 cents per song or 1.75 cents per minute of playing time, whichever is greater. The Harry Fox agency is, as far as I know, the primary handler of royalty payments in the US. I would contact them first. Contacting publishers directly would be my next step.

Good luck and have fun!

Subject: RE: There's got to be an easier way!
From: Darren Raleigh
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 04:50 PM

Thanks folks. I've been to Harry Fox and BMI. I feel pretty confident that I won't get sued. Thanks again.

-D.

"It's not what they call you, it's what you answer to."
W.C. Fields